OccamsRazor Posted June 15, 2021 Share Posted June 15, 2021 47 minutes ago, CoachX said: Why not. If you are gutting this team for a rebuild, this moves pieces that aren't part of that ( exception being a draft pick), amd you get a number 1 to pair with provy And now you need a number 3 or 4 right hand shot. So fill a hole and create a hole. That is what doesn't make sense to me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FD19372 Posted June 15, 2021 Share Posted June 15, 2021 53 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: And now you need a number 3 or 4 right hand shot. It is easier to find a reasonable option (in salary and talent) to fill THAT hole than it is to have a crater to fill ...if you don't have a top tier level defenseman, in your top pairing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 15, 2021 Share Posted June 15, 2021 17 minutes ago, FD19372 said: It is easier to find a reasonable option (in salary and talent) to fill THAT hole than it is to have a crater to fill ...if you don't have a top tier level defenseman, in your top pairing. So you are going to pay him A.P. money because it is what was rumored he wanted which was 71 mill for 7 years for roughly 8.8 mill per cap hit. Even though he doesn't produce like A.P. Sorry count me out. And if it was so easy to find a #4 why did the Flyers end up with Braun after giving up a 2nd and 3rd and Gus this past season since they can't even find a solid 5 or 6 but a 4 is easy? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FD19372 Posted June 15, 2021 Share Posted June 15, 2021 8 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: So you are going to pay him A.P. money because it is what was rumored he wanted which was 71 mill for 7 years for roughly 8.8 mill per cap hit. Even though he doesn't produce like A.P. Sorry count me out. And if it was so easy to find a #4 why did the Flyers end up with Braun after giving up a 2nd and 3rd and Gus this past season since they can't even find a solid 5 or 6 but a 4 is easy? I didn't say it was easy..I said it was easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted June 15, 2021 Share Posted June 15, 2021 53 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: And if it was so easy to find a #4 why did the Flyers end up with Braun after giving up a 2nd and 3rd and Gus this past season since they can't even find a solid 5 or 6 but a 4 is easy? I'll give you a hint.... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 15, 2021 Share Posted June 15, 2021 5 minutes ago, flyercanuck said: I'll give you a hint.... Well I be a sumbitch. Didn't know Braun was from Minny I want to laugh off your Minny association so bad...but Chuckles is making it hard. Well Gus isn't from Minnesota so there's that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted June 15, 2021 Share Posted June 15, 2021 7 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: Well I be a sumbitch. Didn't know Braun was from Minny I want to laugh off your Minny association so bad...but Chuckles is making it hard. Well Gus isn't from Minnesota so there's that. Ya but Gus is Swedish. And do you know which state has the most Swedish immigrants? I'll give you a hint.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tucson83 Posted June 15, 2021 Share Posted June 15, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, OccamsRazor said: And now you need a number 3 or 4 right hand shot. So fill a hole and create a hole. That is what doesn't make sense to me. i think fans really have to take step back and look at this defense, realistically i dont think we are hamilton or jones from fixing this defense, if they dont get these guys, it's telling me this defense is not very good, it means we have to get more pieces and overspending on one guy isnt going to fix it. they need to spend on a few more pieces. that goes for the same for top 6 and bottom 6, there's so many questions about this roster and when you have so questions about the roster you are not going to overpay on one guy, you are going to have to retool this whole team, you dont want to be like sharks overpaying karlson and say oh crap this roster isnt very good and now we are stuck in cap hell again and we have to rely on draft picks to fix this team and it's going to set this team way back out of contention window. my point is i think we need more than 1 player to fix this team and not a jones or hamilton away. this is honest and hard truth for anyone to swallow, i think hextall has really screwed this team up. Edited June 15, 2021 by tucson83 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyClarkeFan16 Posted June 15, 2021 Share Posted June 15, 2021 5 hours ago, CoachX said: But you don't want a 26 year old who had a bad year, and is now, and prolly always will be, better than that 24 year old? His play has gone downhill since his rookie year. That's the reality with Jones. Deny it all you want, but every single year after his rookie year, his play has gotten worse. If they're going to throw a package like they out there for anyone, I'd hope it means that someone like Parayko is coming back the other way. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 Not to change the subject but i wasn't aware that Claude Giroux only has one career regular season hat trick...wow...just assumed he had a few more...guess i know what assuming means. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyer4ever Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 6 hours ago, tucson83 said: i think fans really have to take step back and look at this defense, realistically i dont think we are hamilton or jones from fixing this defense, if they dont get these guys, it's telling me this defense is not very good, it means we have to get more pieces and overspending on one guy isnt going to fix it. they need to spend on a few more pieces. that goes for the same for top 6 and bottom 6, there's so many questions about this roster and when you have so questions about the roster you are not going to overpay on one guy, you are going to have to retool this whole team, you dont want to be like sharks overpaying karlson and say oh crap this roster isnt very good and now we are stuck in cap hell again and we have to rely on draft picks to fix this team and it's going to set this team way back out of contention window. my point is i think we need more than 1 player to fix this team and not a jones or hamilton away. this is honest and hard truth for anyone to swallow, i think hextall has really screwed this team up. Nothing has changed in 10 years. Replacing mediocre old players with mediocre young players. There is no easy or quick fix. Sneaking into 8th place is not the way to compete in a salary cap league. You have to bottom out to rise to the top, unless you are Vegas. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 12 hours ago, CoachX said: I wouldn't even blink. DONE! let's move on Go home. You're drunk. That's one of the most utterly ridiculous overpaying packages I've ever seen. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FD19372 Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 17 minutes ago, ruxpin said: Go home. You're drunk. That's one of the most utterly ridiculous overpaying packages I've ever seen. Come on, man. There isn't one d*mn unreplaceable player there being traded from the Flyers, including Laughton, who I like a lot. Patrick might be done playing in the NHL by the time he's 26. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 (edited) 34 minutes ago, FD19372 said: Come on, man. There isn't one d*mn unreplaceable player there being traded from the Flyers, including Laughton, who I like a lot. Patrick might be done playing in the NHL by the time he's 26. FOR THE WRONG DAMN PLAYER! It is sheer idiocy to shoot all of your tradeable assets for one player even if they were the right one when we have multiple holes to fill. Even more asinine for this utter stupidity of trading for the WRONG player who is getting worse every year. And you want to trade several players and a first round and pay him a boatload on an immovable contact on top of it. Call an EAP hotline. Sorry this is strong, but Jesus, it takes a fricken stroke to think this is a good idea and even then probably some serious amounts of substance. It's simply insane. Edited June 16, 2021 by ruxpin 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FD19372 Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 7 minutes ago, ruxpin said: it takes a fricken stroke Of genius? 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyClarkeFan16 Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 12 hours ago, flyer4ever said: Nothing has changed in 10 years. Replacing mediocre old players with mediocre young players. There is no easy or quick fix. Sneaking into 8th place is not the way to compete in a salary cap league. You have to bottom out to rise to the top, unless you are Vegas. This is EXACTLY what happens when teams don't do a proper rebuild. This whole retool on the fly is detrimental in the long run because the players that can be moved for assets to help improve the rebuild are often moved after they have little to no value. Just look at Wayne Simmonds as an example. There's a guy who should have been moved by Hextall hung on to him too long and by the time Fletcher got to move him, he had little value left. It's the same with JVR, Voracek and Giroux. What kills them though is that they're also making at least 7 million (in the case of Giroux and Voracek, it's 8 million). Nobody is touching that in a flat cap world. They should have been moved the years ago when Fletcher was named GM, but the Flyers had this belief they could rebound and held onto them for too long. That's part of the reason why I mentioned the Flyers should investigate moving Couturier. His value is through the roof right now and you know teams would be lined up for blocks with fantastic packages for him. Put him in a Colorado or Vegas or Los Angeles and the return would be phenomenal. I get most wouldn't be happy about moving Couturier, but if you could get a young roster player with high upside, some blue chip prospects and first round picks, that goes a long way in a proper rebuild. The belief that the Flyers are 'one or two players from being competitive' is such a problem within the organization. It's been like that for years and there isn't a single person in the structure of the organization who will admit that this club simply isn't good enough and continues to feed this ******** narrative. That's why the Flyers remain in this constant state of ineptitude. It really is time to identify a core 7 in the main roster (3 forwards, 3 defensemen, 1 goalie) to build around and then go from there. For instance, Konecny, Farabee, Frost are the forwards, Provorov, Sanheim, Myers as the d and Hart is the goalie. Everyone else is fair game in the rebuild. And for those with no movement clauses, if they don't waive, then they become healthy scratches until they do waive and provide a list of 10 teams where they would like to go. I'm tired of this one good season, one bad season routine this club has gone through the past several years is unacceptable. Take the lumps and rebuild properly. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 11 hours ago, ruxpin said: Go home. You're drunk. That's one of the most utterly ridiculous overpaying packages I've ever seen. I get you on that. I obviously don't think its that bad. I don't think Jones is a bad as many are suggesting he is. I think his current level of play is directly connected to how he is being used in Columbus. I also think analytics can be misleading. There are numerous articles projecting him a future HOF player, a legit number 1, and ranked in the top 10 to 15 best defensemen in the NHL. In the 19-20 season, an article had him ranked as high as 5. Im not going to go web surfing and link tagging to prove this, I just suggest people read and research on their own As for the suggested trade, I like it better than one giving up TK/Frost. In looking at it, what is being given up. Laughton? Ok, he can be replaced. Patrick? I could replace him and I don't now how many laces are in my skates. Myers? Good player who had a bad year. Up until this particular trade scenario he was getting lambasted on this forum as being soft and sucky. He will never be Jones. So for me, the unknown of a draft pick is the only real loss. And since you would be moving 3 contracts, you get some cap to help sign him. Personally, I think he and Provy together, would be way more valuable to this team than any of the four pieces mentioned in the trade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 31 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said: They should have been moved the years ago when Fletcher was named GM, but the Flyers had this belief they could rebound and held onto them for too long. I don' think any of us really felt this way in the 2019 season, when the Flyers were the number one seed in the playoffs. what happened this last season has changed everything Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyClarkeFan16 Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 1 minute ago, CoachX said: I don' think any of us really felt this way in the 2019 season, when the Flyers were the number one seed in the playoffs. what happened this last season has changed everything They missed the playoffs in 2019 (Cam York was their selecting in the draft). 2020 was when they were the top seed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 1 minute ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said: They missed the playoffs in 2019 (Cam York was their selecting in the draft). 2020 was when they were the top seed. thank you for correcting me. I meant the 2019-2020 season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 12 hours ago, ruxpin said: Go home. You're drunk. That's one of the most utterly ridiculous overpaying packages I've ever seen. BTW, what's make you think I wasn't drunk AT home? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyClarkeFan16 Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 3 minutes ago, CoachX said: I don' think any of us really felt this way in the 2019 season, when the Flyers were the number one seed in the playoffs. what happened this last season has changed everything It's been the past several seasons for myself. I've always wanted this club to do a proper rebuild. None of this 'Flyers Hockey' madness that we hear about always aiming for the playoffs. Sometimes you have to step back and do the unthinkable. This franchise has always been resistant to that and that's why they're in the mess they're in. They consistently shelter young players to the point that they'll intentionally play veterans over them because veterans have 'been there before' whatever the hell that means. Sometimes they need to let the kids take their lumps and learn from things. There's absolutely no continuity with this franchise either when it comes to player development and callups from the AHL. The list goes on and on with what this franchise has failed to do over the past ten to 15 years with players and it's always the same mentality of everyone who comes in here - we're just one or two players shy from challenging for a Stanley Cup. I'm sick of that line of thinking from all the upper management of this team. It's time to blow it up and build it properly. No more of this patchwork ******** and play players out of position or hire a coaching staff where nobody is on the same page. Build it proper and build it right. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 2 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said: They consistently shelter young players to the point that they'll intentionally play veterans over them because veterans have 'been there before' whatever the hell that means. Sometimes they need to let the kids take their lumps and learn from things. Correct me if I'm wrong, was it you that was just complaining that AV should be fired, in part becasue he publicly called out young players? Good post though. I would love to see a full rebuild....starting with a trade for a true number 1 defenseman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 31 minutes ago, CoachX said: I think his current level of play is directly connected to how he is being used in Columbus. Uh like a #1 shut down D man you know like what would be expected in Philly after giving up half the roster. So not sure how you would expect his role to differ so much in Philly from what was being asked of him now that he has struggled with? Let someone else overpay for his services. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 1 minute ago, OccamsRazor said: So not sure how you would expect his role to differ so much in Philly from what was being asked of him now that he has struggled with? this is a great point. one that should be seriously considered, and probably would be if this scenario has any reality to it. It's kinda like the same question, would Patrick be better somewhere else roll the dice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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