Game 24: Sabres at Flyers; 3/9/21 @ 7, NBCSP

[tucson83]

9 hours ago, Howie58 said:

I watched the presser on the Center Ice feed.  AV spoke about Hart's play and noted that all players go through bad stretches, and that fortitude gets them back on track.  I can't argue that. He also said there are many games ahead in a short period.  Ditto.

 

But....how many starts will he give Hart if he continues to play small (two reporters asked about that) and gives up goals early?  I think the O and B can't give him more than five games to get in a groove before thinking about a Lyon spot start or other.  Moose can't play another 30+ games this season without problems.  I don't think we have a goalie controversy, but it may turn into that unless Hart picks it up.  I like the guy, but as the announcers and AV said, we need points.  At what point does the team lose confidence in him?

 

 

not unless fletch goes out and trades for a goalie that might not be out of the question. i wont be surprised that hart wont be here next year.

[SCFlyguy]

I'm tired of hearing excuses for Hart's poor play because of the Flyers' bad D.  Funny, Elliott doesn't seem nearly as affected.

[CoachX]

13 hours ago, tucson83 said:

i think it's time for jake and giroux to go after this season when the core doesnt step up, the team quits. it needs an overhaul. firing av is not going to fix this. the core isnt stepping up.

Was there some rumor that AV was on the chopping block? 

[CoachX]

13 hours ago, Poconono said:

Disagree.  I think the Flyers and their fans have greatly over-rated their young talent.  For years we've been told how great the future looks.  The prospects are many but aren't particularly great.  They've loaded up on bodies that are no more than third and fourth liners and third pairing d-men at best.  Meanwhile the rest of the league has been drafting fewer players but making their choices count.  I don't see any elite talent on the Flyers.

Great insight. Ive been thinking the same thing

[flyercanuck]

1 hour ago, SCFlyguy said:

I'm tired of hearing excuses for Hart's poor play because of the Flyers' bad D.  Funny, Elliott doesn't seem nearly as affected.

 

I'm not sure which goal Hart should have stopped last night. On all 3 the Sabres were allowed to walk right in and shoot or were left all alone in the slot. He hasn't played well this season, but there have been several games where he was left hung out to dry. Last night was one of them.

 

 It's not all on the D either, it's the entire team. There was a lot of watching going on after the 1-0 lead.

[CoachX]

12 hours ago, Podein25 said:

Scott Laughton the player of the game according to the Flyers broadcast crew @CoachX

Im looking out the window while enjoying my morning coffee, and what did I see? A blind squirrel found a nut. Look at that!

 

Oh, BTW, Giroux had a multi goal game recently too. 

 

Anomalies are fun

[flyercanuck]

1 hour ago, tucson83 said:

not unless fletch goes out and trades for a goalie that might not be out of the question. i wont be surprised that hart wont be here next year.

 

Cause who doesn't want to watch another promising goalie win a Vezina...on another team?

[Howie58]

Writ large, we are at 1/3 of the season +.  I agree with comments about that our prospects aren't what they've been cracked up to be.  I also worry about running Elliott into the ground.   Lyon is on the taxi squad but I am unsure what happens if he's called up.  He isn't waiver exempt.  

[mojo1917]

A lot of guys watching the puck and not marking their man.

 

That said. 

Hart's confidence is zero right now, when faced 1 on 1 with a shooter he's retreating and making himself smaller. He's losing the matchup before the puck leaves the shooters tape.

At the beginning of the season he was much more aggressive then Boston scored on the back door a few times in a row and that aggressiveness has turned to complete passivity.

 

I've been seeing on twitter a lot of people poo-pooing the idea that a top 4 defenseman won't help.

The situation with Hart that I mentioned would be helped immensely if there is a guy who will be steady and eat minutes and do what he's supposed to do, like tie up the man on the backside.

 

I'll take that win, it was ****** enraging watching that 1st period. To their credit the team found a way and if they can eliminate the deflating plays at the end of the period can make some hay vs Washington this weekend.

 

[Howie58]

1 minute ago, flyercanuck said:

Cause who doesn't want to watch another promising goalie win a Vezina...on another team?

You raise a great point. I am not anti-Hart.  The issue might be that his development is coming during a condensed season and with a 35 year-old stablemate.   I don't think the Flyers will part with him at this juncture.  I suspect next year may be the time they figure out his long-term fit.

[albertaflyer]

10 hours ago, Howie58 said:

I watched the presser on the Center Ice feed.  AV spoke about Hart's play and noted that all players go through bad stretches, and that fortitude gets them back on track.  I can't argue that. He also said there are many games ahead in a short period.  Ditto.

 

But....how many starts will he give Hart if he continues to play small (two reporters asked about that) and gives up goals early?  I think the O and B can't give him more than five games to get in a groove before thinking about a Lyon spot start or other.  Moose can't play another 30+ games this season without problems.  I don't think we have a goalie controversy, but it may turn into that unless Hart picks it up.  I like the guy, but as the announcers and AV said, we need points.  At what point does the team lose confidence in him?

 

 

This is the problem in Philadelphia. People will run this kid out of town. I will say it again. I'm not that concerned about 22 year old goalie struggling. The reason why I say that is I learned my lesson with Bobrosky.  I was way to quick to give up on that kid.  Hart will figure it out. He always has.  Now if you had 10 million per season tied up in him like Montreal has tied up in Price (check out his numbers this season) then I would be concerned.  What I have learned in the past two weeks is that the Flyers aren't good enough this season.  When JVR and Farabee are your leading scorers that's a huge red flag. Guys that should be scoring aren't. Hayes, Konecny, Vorachek, Giroux, Patrick. I could go on are not performing.  But I will say if your D keeps giving up 10 bell chances in the slot 5-10 feet from the net NHL players are going to score more often than not.  What is nice though is in my own head I have realized their not that good so watching a game now is so much easier because I'm not as emotionally invested. 

[OccamsRazor]

6 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

I'm not sure which goal Hart should have stopped last night. On all 3 the Sabres were allowed to walk right in and shoot or were left all alone in the slot. He hasn't played well this season, but there have been several games where he was left hung out to dry. Last night was one of them.

 

 It's not all on the D either, it's the entire team. There was a lot of watching going on after the 1-0 lead.

 

So how much value do you place on having a Ekholm to help ease the burden being placed on Hart??

 

What is that worth too you??

 

I place a lot of value on it and am ok parting with pieces to save his metal state along with any other of the kids taking this to heart.

 

They need a savvy smart vet to help solve some of the mass hysteria we see taking place when the puck is down low around Hart with almost no help or protection.

 

I don't see the schedule getting any easier. Or do we just ride it out and let the chip fall where they may???

 

The Matadors of the blueline will have Hart's shrink installing a revolving door to his office soon.

[CoachX]

11 hours ago, Howie58 said:

I watched the presser on the Center Ice feed.  AV spoke about Hart's play and noted that all players go through bad stretches, and that fortitude gets them back on track.  I can't argue that. He also said there are many games ahead in a short period.  Ditto.

 

But....how many starts will he give Hart if he continues to play small (two reporters asked about that) and gives up goals early?  I think the O and B can't give him more than five games to get in a groove before thinking about a Lyon spot start or other.  Moose can't play another 30+ games this season without problems.  I don't think we have a goalie controversy, but it may turn into that unless Hart picks it up.  I like the guy, but as the announcers and AV said, we need points.  At what point does the team lose confidence in him?

 

 

Good post. But to the statement that they need points, and that statement is made in relation to goaltending, I ask, "Hunh?"

 

Yeah you need points. Maybe you should address the power-outage play, and the disappearing acts by your top offensive talent. Oh, and maybe, just spitballing here, fix the defense in front of Hart

[mojo1917]

1 hour ago, tucson83 said:

i wont be surprised that hart wont be here next year.

 

Is this the booze talking?

this statement might be the dumbest thing I've read this week. 

Maybe you want to elaborate on it, 'cause on it's own it is ridiculous. 

[mojo1917]

4 minutes ago, Howie58 said:

 Lyon is on the taxi squad but I am unsure what happens if he's called up.

Hi Howie, I can tell you. The Flyers will lose 3 out of 4 games he starts.

He is a AAAA goalie. 

I know you don't want to see him. No one wants to see him for an extended period in the NHL.

You're talking worst case scenario and Hart's play isn't near bad enough to think Alex Lyon is the answer.

 

[CoachX]

1 hour ago, SCFlyguy said:

I'm tired of hearing excuses for Hart's poor play because of the Flyers' bad D.  Funny, Elliott doesn't seem nearly as affected.

Why does 22 year old Patrick get a pass because of his age, but Hart doesn't?

 

When you are hung out to dry, your confidence can take a hit. Elliott is a mature vet. Plus, in my view, the team tightens up defensively when he's in goal. With Hart, they appear more reckless

[flyercanuck]

17 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

So how much value do you place on having a Ekholm to help ease the burden being placed on Hart??

 

What is that worth too you??

 

I place a lot of value on it and am ok parting with pieces to save his metal state along with any other of the kids taking this to heart.

 

They need a savvy smart vet to help solve some of the mass hysteria we see taking place when the puck is down low around Hart with almost no help or protection.

 

I don't see the schedule getting any easier. Or do we just ride it out and let the chip fall where they may???

 

The Matadors of the blueline will have Hart's shrink installing a revolving door to his office soon.

 

I've already said (multiple times) I don't have a problem with Ekholm. My problem is with trading away a 22 year old 2nd overall pick for him and he walks after next year. If you could get him for say Ghost and a 2nd, count me in.

Edited March 10, 2021 by flyercanuck

[OccamsRazor]

4 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

A lot of guys watching the puck and not marking their man.

 

That said. 

Hart's confidence is zero right now, when faced 1 on 1 with a shooter he's retreating and making himself smaller. He's losing the matchup before the puck leaves the shooters tape.

At the beginning of the season he was much more aggressive then Boston scored on the back door a few times in a row and that aggressiveness has turned to complete passivity.

 

I've been seeing on twitter a lot of people poo-pooing the idea that a top 4 defenseman won't help.

The situation with Hart that I mentioned would be helped immensely if there is a guy who will be steady and eat minutes and do what he's supposed to do, like tie up the man on the backside.

 

I'll take that win, it was ****** enraging watching that 1st period. To their credit the team found a way and if they can eliminate the deflating plays at the end of the period can make some hay vs Washington this weekend.

 

 

Good post. Agree. The Matadors of the blueline need a guy to show them the way.

 

15 games and still zero points for Patrick.

 

HTF does that even happen??

 

Man you would think he would have even accidentally netted a point by passing it into a goal mouth...

 

 

....if this doesn't light the lamp under his ass nothing will...

[CoachX]

1 hour ago, tucson83 said:

not unless fletch goes out and trades for a goalie that might not be out of the question. i wont be surprised that hart wont be here next year.

Little boy, I'm old....try to start making sense

[OccamsRazor]

6 minutes ago, albertaflyer said:

But I will say if your D keeps giving up 10 bell chances in the slot 5-10 feet from the net NHL players are going to score more often than not. 

 

Let's start with this.

 

Let's try to eliminate this. If they figure out a way to do this then this too will help them stay out the box.

 

Cutting down on prime chances for the other team has to be priority #1 right now.

 

Then if they can figure that out they can concentrate on fixing the terrible power play.

[albertaflyer]

One of things when coaching my own team I find my self telling my players is move your feet.  I swear I could have yelled that 30 times at the Flyers last night. Hayes on the second goal just stopped skating. Could have cut the Sabre player from coming out from the corner. All he had to do was take two strides but didn't and cost him.

[mojo1917]

1 minute ago, CoachX said:

Why does 22 year old Patrick get a pass because of his age, but Hart doesn't?

To start he missed an entire season because of a migraine disorder.

I cannot spell that word to save my ass. always leaving that second i out.

 

And let's be truthful. 

He isn't "getting a pass" he's getting dragged daily in every public forum. People want more from him, it's sort of how things go in 2021.

I would like to see more from him.

 

This is just one man's opinion but that shot in the SO last night is why the coaches keep sending him out there. 

That was a damned seed, with a head fake. Johansson moved after it was past his earhole.

If you see that in practice daily, I can see where as teammates and coaches you want to give that ability a chance to show up in a game.

 

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

See what happens in the shootout when you know shoot the damn puck!!!

 

Take your shot stop all this All star deking crap with the puck make the goalie move and then take your shot.

 

Hey it works!!!

[Howie58]

There may be a lot of frustration here because, as noted, we are getting sick of being a year away from being elite...and not getting there.

 

I don't want to run Hart out of town.  There are serious D lapses that would probably challenge any goalie, but may hurt a youngin more.  

 

As I have said before, we had two "visions" heading into the season.  The first is our 9-1 + entry playoff run.  The second was the so-so performance we saw against MTL and NYI.  Right now, we seem to be closer to the latter.  Our D seems to have serious lapses.  Our special teams are mediocre.  

 

Bottom line--we may be a marginal playoff squad in a tough division.   I can't see this team taking out the squads currently above us in the rankings.  

[albertaflyer]

Just now, OccamsRazor said:

See what happens in the shootout when you know shoot the damn puck!!!

 

Take your shot stop all this All star deking crap with the puck make the goalie move and then take your shot.

 

Hey it works!!!

See what happens when you come in carrying speed. Ask any goalie on a breakaway. It's hard to tell what a shooter is going to do when they come in fast. That means they have to back in faster.  Hence why Mcdavid is so good. Everything is at a speed that is hard to defend.