brelic Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 @brelicI noticed his ice time was down too. And from what I saw of him, he looked ok. Had some good passing, puck movement, a set-up or two.I honestly think that if he is moved, it will be before the All Star break.I agree with 90% of the board when I say if he is moved it should be for a little more than Schenn.Maybe that's the ideal scenario, but Schenn is 22 and locked up at a $3.6M cap hit for the next 5 years. Very friendly cap hit while he hopefully continues to develop.That actually decreases our cap for next year by losing JVR's $4.25M cap hit beginning next year for 6 years.We can use the extra space to address the open wing spot, if we want to add a vet presence for example. Plus, there's less pressure on whether or not Pronger comes back and how to deal with his salary if it comes back on the books.As for Suter and Weber, they'll both be renegotiating new contracts. If you do the trade and sign tactic that Homer is so fond of doing, the player has all the leverage. We've seen it with Bryz. Plus, the media coverage that Suter is our #1 target gives him even MORE leverage, knowing the Flyers will overpay to get their "#1" target.If Weber gets $7M+ and Suter gets $6M+, how does that affect our cap situation? Well, it's approximately $3M less cap space than if we got Schenn, albeit a higher quality player.And Weber/Suter will cost a heckuva lot more than JVR. Add another roster player and some picks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I do see the gaping problem on the left wing especially the lack of naturally positioned LW'ers.This is what I was thinking too. Additionally, I too have noticed the near instant chemistry with Schenn and JVR. For whatever reason JVR struggles to find linemates that he meshes well with. The fact that he is meshing with Schenn is a huge upside to the potential of both players. I know you have to give to get, but I am just struggling whether now is the time. There is a part of me that just wants to ride out the Suter / Weber saga. Suter is a UFA and Weber and RFA. If Nashville signs Suter, then lets tender an offer sheet to Weber. I don't mind giving 4 first rounders for him. It keeps our team in tact. If Nashville signs Weber, than we pursue Suter in the open market- without having to give up any assets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertmega Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) @brelicThis is true about having to negotiate from a position of weakness. Homer would absolutely overpay either Weber or Suter. In fact, if we get either I would expect it would be in the off season.JvR for Schenn straight up seems a little lopsided to me.Kadri and Schenn for JvR, 2nd (PHL not LA's) Schenn and Jerry D'Amigo for JvR and a 4th Edited January 13, 2012 by Bertmega Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 @brelicThis is true about having to negotiate from a position of weakness. Homer would absolutely overpay either Weber or Suter. In fact, if we get either I would expect it would be in the off season.JvR for Schenn straight up seems a little lopsided to me.Kadri and Schenn for JvR, 2nd (PHL not LA's) Or Kadri, Schenn and Jerry D'Amigo for JvR and a 4thI've been hearing Kulemin instead of Kadri. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertmega Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Kulemin from what I have seen seems to fit Lavy's system. I could see that happening. He's a big body that plays with an edge. I wouldn't make him a household name in Philly, but it would soften the JvR trade should it go down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Another rumour on a different board by a poster who has legitimate connections has heard Schenn and Clarke MacArthur for JVR and Blake Kessel.That one sounds too good to be true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertmega Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) I would drive JvR to the airport to make that trade go down.Blake can take SEPTA though. Edited January 13, 2012 by Bertmega Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orange_crush Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I too have noticed the near instant chemistry with Schenn and JVRI was thinking the same thing the past few games, this new line of Simmnds/Schenn/JVR is going to be a special line.I might hold on to JVR for now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Another rumour on a different board by a poster who has legitimate connections has heard Schenn and Clarke MacArthur for JVR and Blake Kessel.That one sounds too good to be true.It does. I'd prolly do that trade. But I'm not really convinced that it's time to give up on JVR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 It does. I'd prolly do that trade. But I'm not really convinced that it's time to give up on JVR.I don't think it's about giving up on JVR so much as having to decide which asset to use in a trade. Bob is a strong asset, but that creates a hole at backup. Leighton might not make it through waivers, which makes it so the trading partner would have to send us a backup in the deal.JVR is another strong asset because he's young and has upside, and seems to be the odd man out right now. If he goes on to have a very good career, then so be it, so long as what we get in return helps out a position of need (i.e. Schenn living up to his draft position). Leafs fans probably feel the same way that Burke would be 'giving' up on Schenn. But I don't think that's the case for either team.If you don't trade either of JVR or Bob, who do you move? We don't really have any other options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 It does. I'd prolly do that trade. But I'm not really convinced that it's time to give up on JVR.Why is that a good trade? I dont know much about Clarke MacArthur, but he looks like he has had just one pretty good year, otherwise nothing special. FWIW, Blake Kessel is still projected by scouts to be a 3-4 dman. Never seen him play so I could not speak to his ability- but isn't that the same as Schenn?? So we give one guy that could be a 3-4 dman (Kessel) for another one that could be (Schenn) and then JVR for MacArthur? That last part has me scratching my head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Why is that a good trade? I dont know much about Clarke MacArthur, but he looks like he has had just one pretty good year, otherwise nothing special.FWIW, Blake Kessel is still projected by scouts to be a 3-4 dman. Never seen him play so I could not speak to his ability- but isn't that the same as Schenn?? So we give one guy that could be a 3-4 dman (Kessel) for another one that could be (Schenn) and then JVR for MacArthur? That last part has me scratching my head.Schenn's ceiling is top pairing defenseman, just like JVR's ceiling is top line winger. No guarantees that either will reach their ceiling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Schenn's ceiling is top pairing defenseman, just like JVR's ceiling is top line winger. No guarantees that either will reach their ceiling.So Schenn for JVR seems equitable to you?? I guess the one silver lining in it is that he would be playing with his brother. A happy hockey player is generally a good hockey player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) @brelic - fair enough, good points. JVR is the main trading asset IMO. Let me put it this way instead: I think we can get better than Schenn for JVR. I'm just not convinced he's that good. But I am biased against anything that is Leafs. I don't like anybody on that team. Kulemin on some nights. The rest of them? Meh.@Vanflyer - the suggested trade breaks down:JVR > L SchennMacArthur > B KessellJVR > MacArthurL Schenn > B KessellI don't know enough about B Kessell either, except it's news to me that he projects as a 3-4 D-man (or even an NHLer), although I understand he gave a good account of himself at rookie camp.I said I'd prolly make that trade, but I don't know why I said that, since I prolly wouldn't Edited January 13, 2012 by Podein25 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 So Schenn for JVR seems equitable to you??I guess the one silver lining in it is that he would be playing with his brother. A happy hockey player is generally a good hockey player.I think their potential is similar, and this seems to be a case where Burke is more interested in JVR than we are in Schenn, and we have other (publicly known) plans for Suter, so we actually have the leverage in this case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I don't know enough about B Kessell either, except it's news to me that he projects as a 3-4 D-man (or even an NHLer)That was Hockey Futures boards and last updated on 10/2011. http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospect/Blake_KesselFor what it is worth, he is the leading scorer of the d-fense corps for the Phantoms (yet if Gus was playing there it would not be even close). 31 gp 1g 10a 11pt +2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I said I'd prolly make that trade, but I don't know why I said that, since I prolly wouldn'tThanks for clearing that up for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 @JackStraw - if you can't swep 'em off their feet with brilliance, at least aim to disable their legs with confusion and violence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 @JackStraw - if you can't swep 'em off their feet with brilliance, at least aim to disable their legs with confusion and violence.Sort of like this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 @Vanflyer - that's not saying much, Bartulis has 9 pts and is +4!!jk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 @JackStraw - exactly like that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 @Podein25How the mighty have fallen! Wasn't he at one point supposed to be ahead of Bourdon, Marshall and Gustafson on the depth chart for call-ups to the big club?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 DarrenDreger Don't be surprised if Burke meets with Schenn today. If deal doesn't go down soon, I expect Burke will tell Luke its not happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OH1FlyersFan Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Bob is a strong asset, but that creates a hole at backup.Bryz is our backup, isn't he?? I think this creates a hole at the number 1 position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinorama Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Bob is a strong asset, but that creates a hole at backup.that will read "but that creates a hole at starting goalie" in a week Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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