Hextall the Patsy

[flyerrod]

28 minutes ago, King Knut said:

Fil is decidedly in decline, but either way he's still better than what we've got and Hextall upgraded the top 6 for the rest of this season at least and got two bargaining chip draft picks instead of losing a player that had no place on the team outright?

 

I am hoping that there is a handshake down the road deal that we don't know about bringing more to the Flyers for taking on the 5 mil next year for this contract. Granted , he is not going to be the next Bryzgalov but he is going to be taking ice time away from young players pretty much in the same vain as MacDud does. It also gives them a F/C to expose for the draft too right? Trying to find more positives in this deal but right now it is pretty tough......

[RonJeremy]

@EVERYONE, after I got over the shock of that lame trade,  I also thought that the reason we signed this  5 million  dollar stiff was because either Coots or Schenn are being traded at the draft. If not , then we are stuck with him for next year and we are stuck with Neuvy for two. I guess Stolarz is penciled in for next year as the backup. I dont see Vegas picking Neuvy, theres way better options out there. 

[DaGreatGazoo]

Just now, flyerrod said:

It also gives them a F/C to expose for the draft too right?

 

No.  His NMC remains in place, which means they must protect...unless he agrees to waive it for the expansion draft.  Which I highly doubt he does.  

[flyerrod]

2 minutes ago, DaGreatGazoo said:

 

No.  His NMC remains in place, which means they must protect...unless he agrees to waive it for the expansion draft.  Which I highly doubt he does.  

I thought that once the trade was agreed upon, the NMC/ NTC was voided...That truly sucks if he can't be exposed.

 

[murraycraven]

1 minute ago, flyerrod said:

I thought that once the trade was agreed upon, the NMC/ NTC was voided...That truly sucks if he can't be exposed.

 

 

cant be exposed rod.... from Hexy's mouth.

[Podein25]

1 minute ago, murraycraven said:

cant be exposed rod.... from Hexy's mouth.

 

Ok, well now view is changing. Like in real time...

 

Does Hexy not have people like lawyers or accountants or whatever - professionals  - who know the goddamned rules?!

[King Knut]

36 minutes ago, murraycraven said:

 

 

apparently you are....   

 

nobody is expecting miracles....   but this move is a head scracther.  He simply HELPED out TB for nothing.   If Hextall really thinks Filp is a 2C I believe Hextall needs to be removed from Vorhees immediately.   I brought this up before:  we cant score 5 vs 5 and this does not help.   We added a 5th passer to the top 6...   I dont see this making us all that much better frankly.  We traded for another vet making way too much money.   

 

You are right... it is a short term thing.   The bigger question is how Hexy has handled trades and signings up to this point.  People have sincere questions about some of his moves and that is completely normal.   

 

I don't like it at all....  I would rather have Couts as the #2 for 2 years to see if he actually can score.  Couts has two more goals in 10 less games.  Or, try and deal for cheaper stop-gap in the offseason.  Filp can be a nice setup guy but we have enough of those.  

 

Last, we also have to protect him in the expansion which is ridiculous.  

 

I'm not defending Hextall, I just think the anger and rage within the attacks is overboard.   I don't think it's a deal worth worrying about and I do think it makes them a slight bit better in the short term.  I know we all wanted a LOT better in the long term... but I guess that wasn't feasible.  We didn't have chips that anyone wanted.  Not surprising considering how terrible things have been.  

 

The other half of this is that the Vegas draft makes this year particularly crazy for a lot of teams, especially middling teams like the Flyers.  At least we don't have many decisions about protections to make, but things are very complicated for a lot of teams and that makes for fewer trade partners between now and the end of the season.  

 

I think Hextall is probably thinking of him as a LW, not a 2C.  

He moved Weal back to the AHL, not any of the guys playing Center.  

 

I really don't think he'll need to be protected from the expansion draft.  

[King Knut]

26 minutes ago, RonJeremy said:

@EVERYONE, after I got over the shock of that lame trade,  I also thought that the reason we signed this  5 million  dollar stiff was because either Coots or Schenn are being traded at the draft. If not , then we are stuck with him for next year and we are stuck with Neuvy for two. I guess Stolarz is penciled in for next year as the backup. I dont see Vegas picking Neuvy, theres way better options out there. 

 

THere are better options out there for Vegas... but remember Vegas is subject to the same Salary Cap as everyone else. They can't go drafting everyone else's 8 million dollar goalies.

 

I think in the end Vegas will take Cousins or Laughton and that'll be that and it'll simply because they can't afford a better player and at least those guys are young (even if tiny).  

 

Utlimately, just like with Mac, the point isnt' that Vegas WILL take the guy, it just enables you to limit who they DO take.  

[King Knut]

36 minutes ago, DaGreatGazoo said:

THEY CAN'T.  He has an NMC clause, which means he has to be protected.  

 

He has a modified NTC.  ANd if the Flyers weren't on his list at the beginning of the year, he will have to have Waived it.

 

I don't think anyone knows for sure what that will mean, but it's not the same boat as a player with a straight up NMC like Claude.  

[King Knut]

45 minutes ago, DaGreatGazoo said:

FYI...Weal was a paper move in insure he could play for LV the rest of this year, and the playoffs.  If he wasn't on the roster, he was ineligible.  IMO, he'll be back up tomorrow.  

 

Great.  I liked the way he was playing anyway.  

[murraycraven]

8 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

I'm not defending Hextall, I just think the anger and rage within the attacks is overboard.   I don't think it's a deal worth worrying about and I do think it makes them a slight bit better in the short term.  I know we all wanted a LOT better in the long term... but I guess that wasn't feasible.  We didn't have chips that anyone wanted.  Not surprising considering how terrible things have been.  

 

The other half of this is that the Vegas draft makes this year particularly crazy for a lot of teams, especially middling teams like the Flyers.  At least we don't have many decisions about protections to make, but things are very complicated for a lot of teams and that makes for fewer trade partners between now and the end of the season.  

 

I think Hextall is probably thinking of him as a LW, not a 2C.  

He moved Weal back to the AHL, not any of the guys playing Center.  

 

I really don't think he'll need to be protected from the expansion draft.  

 

 

Weal was just a paper transaction so he could qualify for playoffs.  Chances are he is in the lineup next Flyers game...  even more now that Raff is out of the lineup.   

 

I dont think it is unfair to express displeasure about Hextall.  He has done some good things and he has done some head scratching things as well... I am not as confident in the master plan as you.   And today was one of those reasons.  I dont like any of the moves...  just my 2 cents.   

[King Knut]

38 minutes ago, flyerrod said:

I am hoping that there is a handshake down the road deal that we don't know about bringing more to the Flyers for taking on the 5 mil next year for this contract. Granted , he is not going to be the next Bryzgalov but he is going to be taking ice time away from young players pretty much in the same vain as MacDud does. It also gives them a F/C to expose for the draft too right? Trying to find more positives in this deal but right now it is pretty tough......

 

I think that the players he's going to be taking playing time away from are guys that will need a development year in Lehigh anyway (Lindblom, Ruby e.g.).

 

The most upsetting part about the deal for me is that it suggests that Hextall and the team do not expect to be any better next year either.

 

Also it suggests that Hextall couldn't actually get a buyer for Giroux.

 

But more than likely it just means the rest of how this is all going to play out will be revealed after the season.  Just my POV.  

[caluso]

10 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

I'm not defending Hextall, I just think the anger and rage within the attacks is overboard.   I don't think it's a deal worth worrying about and I do think it makes them a slight bit better in the short term.  I know we all wanted a LOT better in the long term... but I guess that wasn't feasible.  We didn't have chips that anyone wanted.  Not surprising considering how terrible things have been.  

 

The other half of this is that the Vegas draft makes this year particularly crazy for a lot of teams, especially middling teams like the Flyers.  At least we don't have many decisions about protections to make, but things are very complicated for a lot of teams and that makes for fewer trade partners between now and the end of the season.  

 

I think Hextall is probably thinking of him as a LW, not a 2C.  

He moved Weal back to the AHL, not any of the guys playing Center.  

 

I really don't think he'll need to be protected from the expansion draft.  

The reason I think the deal is TERRIBLE is because management does not seem to value every dollar. It is a hard salary cap. Every dollar matters!!!!! And, that is why they are perpetually mired in cap hell. They never seem to learn from their mistakes. "Next year we will be in much better cap shape." "Next year we will be in much better cap shape." Well next year we have tied up another 5 million dollars in a 33 year old, marginal player. Marginal, at best. While Filuppa may improve the team's 5 on 5 play, it will not be worth what they are paying him. Not even close.

And like I said, how does this help the team moving forward? What happened to the idea of building with youth?  

 

Hextall was fleeced in this deal. Tampa was looking to dump salary, nothing more, as is evidenced by their subsequent trade of Streit to Pittsburgh, and they found a willing patsy in Hexy.  Hextall got played. 

[King Knut]

10 minutes ago, murraycraven said:

 

 

Weal was just a paper transaction so he could qualify for playoffs.  Chances are he is in the lineup next Flyers game...  even more now that Raff is out of the lineup.   

 

I dont think it is unfair to express displeasure about Hextall.  He has done some good things and he has done some head scratching things as well... I am not as confident in the master plan as you.   And today was one of those reasons.  I dont like any of the moves...  just my 2 cents.   

 

Yeah, Raffl being out for the rest of the season says Weal stays, totally.  The way he's been playing, they should keep him around anyway.  When they don't make the playoffs, they'll send him back to help run for the Calder Cup.

 

I'm all for expressing displeasure and talking about head scratchers which I admit this is.  But it's not an Armageddon head scratcher like VLC or Bryz or JVR or letting Jagr go or wasting your off season trying to sign Parise, Suter and an RFA Weber to deals that you'd never want a player on anyway.  

 

Those were horrible moves by a horrible GM.  When we flipped out about those, it was because many of us saw that this is where things would end up.  A crappy uncompetitive team for years to come.  

 

Hextalls done an admirable job digging out of that.  I too wish it were time to start buying and competing again.  It isn't.  Not for another year or so probably.  And there wasn't that much to buy in the next 12 months anyway.  That's what Hextall's looking at. 

 

And as far as my trust in his master plan, I have none.  Don't get me wrong.  But what I do have is respect for nd perspective on his position.   If I look at the UFA market and the season to come and the trades to be had and the chips Hextall has to trade with, you're looking at either trading one of the prospects before we know what they really have to offer or making some middling deal that really doesn't help or hurt your team too much.   Once you take the kids off the table, Landeskog and Duchene just ain't happening.  

 

I was excited about the prospect of the Giroux trade, but I didn't see how it could be realistic... what on earth would Montreal want to give up for him?   Their best scorer?  Their captain?  doubtful.  And seeing Giroux's face during the game last night told me that was a lot of hog wash.

 

I confess it's a head scratcher, but if I look at the league and I see what's out there and what's available and what will be UFA this off season, I just don't see what Hextall "should" have done instead if anything.  

 

Worst case scenario, Lindblom comes to camp and wins a spot on the team and we're paying Filppula 1st line dollars to play on the 2nd or 3rd line for a season or until next year's deadline.  That's the absolute worst thing that happens.  Clearly they weren't signing anyone or trading for anyone that this will get in the way of.  I dont' think Hextall made this deal and in 3 months will go "Oh crap!  now I can't sign Bishop!!! dang it!"  

 

If we're frustrated it's because there is no secret miracle move coming.  THat's difficult.  That's frustrating.  Realistic, but frustrating. Once you get beyond that implication (which tis deal suggests, but did not cause), then this deal in and of itself is just a big fat "meh".  

 

Who cares?  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[FD19372]

I hate to say this, but I think many of you have fallen into the same trap as the Flyers. They overvalue their players into thinking that if on the trade market, you're going to get a GREAT return for them. That is, and has been, a huge problem in organizational thinking. However, Hextall got rid of a 38 year old Dman for a slightly younger center who doesn't cost them much. Who do some of you think we were going to get for Streit, Joe Pavelski?

[King Knut]

12 minutes ago, caluso said:

The reason I think the deal is TERRIBLE is because management does not seem to value every dollar. It is a hard salary cap. Every dollar matters!!!!! And, that is why they are perpetually mired in cap hell. They never seem to learn from their mistakes. "Next year we will be in much better cap shape." "Next year we will be in much better cap shape." Well next year we have tied up another 5 million dollars in a 33 year old, marginal player. Marginal, at best. While Filuppa may improve the team's 5 on 5 play, it will not be worth what they are paying him. Not even close.

And like I said, how does this help the team moving forward? What happened to the idea of building with youth?  

 

Hextall was fleeced in this deal. Tampa was looking to dump salary, nothing more, as is evidenced by their subsequent trade of Streit to Pittsburgh, and they found a willing patsy in Hexy.  Hextall got played. 

 

Hextall was not fleeced in this deal!  Ha ha.  that's just silly.  I'm literally laughing at you at my desk in a very good natured way.  I get the frustration and I get where you're coming from with it, but this deal will not affect anything.  THAT'S what you're probably more frustrated by than anything and I get that.  But this deal is not what will have caused them NOT to make a big trade or sign a big Free Agent or play the prospect forwards next year.   This deal just telegraphs to us that they weren't going to do any of that anyway.   

 

That's frustrating when you want them to get better and you don't see how they can without acquisitions.

 

But I think there's room to make a move or two that will help.  I just don't think there's any advantage to doing it now when it will cost you something besides Mark Streit, a player you're not bringing back anyway.

 

Every dollar does count... but not right now.  Right now they're fine... They have a few extra bucks and a few minor deals to make.  This won't affect that.  It won't even cash strap them.  They'll still have some leeway next year to make roster moves, but in the end, this just tells us that Roster moves was all they were ever going to make in the next 12 months.  

 

That and that no one wanted Streit or MDZ or Schultz or Mason.  Which we all rather assumed anyway.  

 

 

[murraycraven]

Just now, King Knut said:

 

Yeah, Raffl being out for the rest of the season says Weal stays, totally.  The way he's been playing, they should keep him around anyway.  When they don't make the playoffs, they'll send him back to help run for the Calder Cup.

 

I'm all for expressing displeasure and talking about head scratchers which I admit this is.  But it's not an Armageddon head scratcher like VLC or Bryz or JVR or letting Jagr go or wasting your off season trying to sign Parise, Suter and an RFA Weber to deals that you'd never want a player on anyway.  

 

Those were horrible moves by a horrible GM.  When we flipped out about those, it was because many of us saw that this is where things would end up.  A crappy uncompetitive team for years to come.  

 

Hextalls done an admirable job digging out of that.  I too wish it were time to start buying and competing again.  It isn't.  Not for another year or so probably.  And there wasn't that much to buy in the next 12 months anyway.  That's what Hextall's looking at. 

 

And as far as my trust in his master plan, I have none.  Don't get me wrong.  But what I do have is respect for nd perspective on his position.   If I look at the UFA market and the season to come and the trades to be had and the chips Hextall has to trade with, you're looking at either trading one of the prospects before we know what they really have to offer or making some middling deal that really doesn't help or hurt your team too much.   Once you take the kids off the table, Landeskog and Duchene just ain't happening.  

 

I was excited about the prospect of the Giroux trade, but I didn't see how it could be realistic... what on earth would Montreal want to give up for him?   Their best scorer?  Their captain?  doubtful.  And seeing Giroux's face during the game last night told me that was a lot of hog wash.

 

I confess it's a head scratcher, but if I look at the league and I see what's out there and what's available and what will be UFA this off season, I just don't see what Hextall "should" have done instead if anything.  

 

Worst case scenario, Lindblom comes to camp and wins a spot on the team and we're paying Filppula 1st line dollars to play on the 2nd or 3rd line for a season or until next year's deadline.  That's the absolute worst thing that happens.  Clearly they weren't signing anyone or trading for anyone that this will get in the way of.  I dont' think Hextall made this deal and in 3 months will go "Oh crap!  now I can't sign Bishop!!! dang it!"  

 

If we're frustrated it's because there is no secret miracle move coming.  THat's difficult.  That's frustrating.  Realistic, but frustrating. Once you get beyond that implication (which tis deal suggests, but did not cause), then this deal in and of itself is just a big fat "meh".  

 

Who cares?  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Great post.....

 

And like I said before this is all short term.   I just don't understand where this is going next year and hope to Jesus this takes form and is part of Hextall plan.

 

You are right..... It is "meh" but I have concerns about how this comes together in a few years.  

 

I like playing devil's advocate sometimes and being born in raised in the city makes me a little more cynical.   

 

I am not trying to be a dick but in a salary cap world every dollar needs to count and I feel like we are moving the puzzle pieces around.   We are banking everything on the future and prospects are just prospects....   They are an unknown.

 

Please don't take offense to anything but I don't think today was all that great.    Just my opinion....   Happy to be wrong!

 

[murraycraven]

5 minutes ago, FD19372 said:

I hate to say this, but I think many of you have fallen into the same trap as the Flyers. They overvalue their players into thinking that if on the trade market, you're going to get a GREAT return for them. That is, and has been, a huge problem in organizational thinking. However, Hextall got rid of a 38 year old Dman for a slightly younger center who doesn't cost them much. Who do some of you think we were going to get for Streit, Joe Pavelski?

 

 

 

I would have been happy with just picks.   Not bring any salary back would have been a good start.   

 

Maybe they were just trying to get Streit to a team with a chance to win the cup.... Who knows.

 

As @King Knut said...   This is all short term so we see how it plays out.   Nothing can be done at this point ...

 

Maybe it works and maybe it doesn't.

[Philly29]

1 hour ago, flyerrod said:

I am hoping that there is a handshake down the road deal that we don't know about bringing more to the Flyers for taking on the 5 mil next year for this contract

Read my mind....or I read yours.

[King Knut]

Side note:  It looks like the Lightning are keeping most of Streit's Salary this year.  

 

They're pay 2.5 million to play against him while the Flyers are paying .275 to play against him.  The Penguins get him for about 1.8.  

 

So weird.  

[murraycraven]

1 hour ago, NRH said:

 

Expose him, Vegas isn't going to take him.

 

 

He ..... Can't.... Be.... Exposed......

[King Knut]

17 minutes ago, murraycraven said:

 

 

Great post.....

 

And like I said before this is all short term.   I just don't understand where this is going next year and hope to Jesus this takes form and is part of Hextall plan.

 

You are right..... It is "meh" but I have concerns about how this comes together in a few years.  

 

I like playing devil's advocate sometimes and being born in raised in the city makes me a little more cynical.   

 

I am not trying to be a dick but in a salary cap world every dollar needs to count and I feel like we are moving the puzzle pieces around.   We are banking everything on the future and prospects are just prospects....   They are an unknown.

 

Please don't take offense to anything but I don't think today was all that great.    Just my opinion....   Happy to be wrong!

 

 

Oh I don't take offense!  I love you guys.  You're the only people who get me when I get upset about this kind of crap.  

I'm trying to be that dude who steps up and tells me that I don't need to be upset I guess.  That's all.  It's not that bad.

 

It's not a great day.  It's a boring day at best.  The team didn't get much better.  Many people here are saying he should have just done nothing.  Maybe they're right.  I don't think this is that different from doing nothing.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[FD19372]

2 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

Oh I don't take offense!  I love you guys.  You're the only people who get me when I get upset about this kind of crap.  

I'm trying to be that dude who steps up and tells me that I don't need to be upset I guess.  That's all.  It's not that bad.

 

It's not a great day.  It's a boring day at best.  The team didn't get much better.  Many people here are saying he should have just done nothing.  Maybe they're right.  I don't think this is that different from doing nothing.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

Traditionally, this franchise makes its biggest moves in the summer. I think they continue that trend starting somewhere around July 1st of this season, maybe earlier in the off-season than even that.

[NRH]

The young "kid" can be exposed in the expansion, I'm not talking about fipp but please keep replying with the same thing someone else said

[King Knut]

44 minutes ago, murraycraven said:

 

 

 

I would have been happy with just picks.   Not bring any salary back would have been a good start.   

 

Maybe they were just trying to get Streit to a team with a chance to win the cup.... Who knows.

 

As @King Knut said...   This is all short term so we see how it plays out.   Nothing can be done at this point ...

 

Maybe it works and maybe it doesn't.

 

This occurred to me too.  It's not like Hexy could trade him to Pitt for a 4th straight up.  And apparently it's not like Pitt would have taken on his full salary. 

 

Tampa gets rid of Fillpula's contract in the exchange. 

 

Hexy gets a marginal improvement to his top 9 for next year (maybe he doesn't need to extend Both Vandy and Lyuby now) and a couple of toss in picks plus he gets to do his guy a solid and get him k on a contender. 

 

I think the Coburn and Timmo deals spoiled us in this way.   

 

The other thing is that if a bad deal (like the Weber offer sheet) can ruin your reputation with other GMs, can doing them and your player a subtle solid help it?

 

Not a reason to make a deal. But if you're looking ahead and see no better options, maybe it can push you over the edge on a meh deal.  

 

Who knows.