mojo1917 Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 11 hours ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said: Third, he plays so much that you can see at the end of the season he's beat up. I really noticed this after an OT game winner VS the Peg...he was so beat up he could barely celebrate, he put back a rebound and just doubled over while everyone else went ape-****. That was the last vestige of effectiveness he had. The rest of the season and playoffs he was a largely ineffective player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaGreatGazoo Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 On 8/13/2016 at 0:22 PM, JR Ewing said: This is a team with a senior management member, just last season, went to scout Patrick Laine, but went to the wrong country. Holy shat...is this actually true? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 7 minutes ago, DaGreatGazoo said: Holy shat...is this actually true? yup! ... see this post ---> http://www.iltalehti.fi/nhl/2016021021099628_nh.shtml Here is English translastion: In the cities, arrived at the following season with the sports on Wednesday, Craig MacTavish and the Scout James McGregor. The two told the Evening newspaper that she had been to see Patrik Laine. the 17-year-old L when is one of the Favorites for next summer's NHL Entry draft. -We came in the game and we found out that he's not a, MacTavish was annoyed. L No play, no. L is in the Lions ' den with Sweden. However, the duo was left to follow the Oilers-Blues-Tappara-matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 @pilldoc @DaGreatGazoo @JR Ewing JR's "angry eating a bag of potato chips" is a mental image that makes me laugh every time i think about it. This post wins the internet this month for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 Ice time can certainly be an issue - Giroux was fourth in the league for ice time amongst forwards - but if we look at the numbers: Giroux played five seconds per game more than Sidney Crosby with .8 more shifts per game than Crosby. Eight seconds more per game than Patrick Kane. 14 seconds more than Ovechkin. Also 51.9% of his zone starts at 5v5 were in the O zone (Crosby 54.5%). A big difference was where Giroux averaged 1:29 in SH time to Crosby's 24 seconds. He also had 9 seconds more PP time per game than Crosby. That said, when you look at, for example, a David Krejci who had four fewer points in six fewer games than Giroux: 1 second more PK time per game 15 seconds less total ice time per game 37 seconds less total PP time Ryan O'Reilly also had seven fewer points in seven fewer games with: 1:11 more total ice time per game 36 seconds more PK time per game 35 seconds less PP time Those are two "nice" players (playing on two non-playoff teams) but would anyone classify them as "elite"? They have very comparable ice times and productions (with fairly significantly less PP time). Krejci's about the same size and O'Reilly has two inches and about 15 pounds on Giroux (official listings). I would certainly consider lessening Giroux's PK burden (and I think that the Flyers expect Gordon and Weise will allow for that). But would he get more ice time and production at 5v5? For his career he gets 39% of his points on the PP (40% last season - Krejci 26%, O'Reilley 25% career; 36% and 28% last season) and led the league in PP time for centers last season. I don't think we can expect to get him much more PP time. From where I sit, there's a lot more to be said about the Flyers essentially being a one line team for long stretches of the season than ice time when it comes to why Giroux's numbers may have fallen. Teams can certainly load up on the top line and ask the others to step up and make them pay for it. Playing on a better team would certainly help Giroux. But, then, it would likely help just about any player. I like Giroux. I think the Flyers can be successful with him. I just don't know that he's "clearly" an "elite" player at this point in his career. From where I sit, truly "elite" players tend to produce regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted August 15, 2016 Author Share Posted August 15, 2016 3 hours ago, radoran said: From where I sit, there's a lot more to be said about the Flyers essentially being a one line team for long stretches of the season than ice time when it comes to why Giroux's numbers may have fallen. Teams can certainly load up on the top line and ask the others to step up and make them pay for it. this is what I was trying to get at in the beginning of this post. To me, this team is pretty much a one line team. If you are an opposing Coach it is all about shutting down G and his line-mates. If you do that you have a pretty good chance to win... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR Ewing Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 9 hours ago, DaGreatGazoo said: Holy shat...is this actually true? I wish it wasn't the case, but it really is. Craig MacTavish hopped a Trans-Atlantic flight to scout a player and landed in the wrong country. Everybody does something dumb from time to time, but that's an embarrassment. Mind you, he's the same man man who signed not one but TWO players to illegal contracts in consecutive years which were against the same rules. He's the same man that ran out of AHL recalls towards the end of the year, because "I thought that a healthy scratch could be treated like an injury recall". He's the same guy that told his head coach (Ralph Krueger) that he could go on vacation, and that he would interview the candidates for assistant on his own, only to hire that person (Dallas Eakins) to the position of head coach, and then fired Krueger over Skype. He does some strange things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR Ewing Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 9 hours ago, mojo1917 said: @pilldoc @DaGreatGazoo @JR Ewing JR's "angry eating a bag of potato chips" is a mental image that makes me laugh every time i think about it. This post wins the internet this month for me. The Edmonton Oilers: cutting out my heart piece by piece since August 9, 1988... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poulin20 Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 14 hours ago, JR Ewing said: I wish it wasn't the case, but it really is. Craig MacTavish hopped a Trans-Atlantic flight to scout a player and landed in the wrong country. Everybody does something dumb from time to time, but that's an embarrassment. Mind you, he's the same man man who signed not one but TWO players to illegal contracts in consecutive years which were against the same rules. He's the same man that ran out of AHL recalls towards the end of the year, because "I thought that a healthy scratch could be treated like an injury recall". He's the same guy that told his head coach (Ralph Krueger) that he could go on vacation, and that he would interview the candidates for assistant on his own, only to hire that person (Dallas Eakins) to the position of head coach, and then fired Krueger over Skype. He does some strange things. I guess all those years going without a helmet have finally caught up with him. Then again he is a former Flyer too and as we have seen they are not always the brightest when put in managerial roles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyClarkeFan16 Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 20 hours ago, murraycraven said: this is what I was trying to get at in the beginning of this post. To me, this team is pretty much a one line team. If you are an opposing Coach it is all about shutting down G and his line-mates. If you do that you have a pretty good chance to win... That's why Couturieur being hurry was such a big blow. He was actually producing offensively and at one point was on a 60+ point pace until he got hurt. If he's injury free and if the Flyers are going to give him good wingers to work with (Voracek and Konecny), he should be able to hit 60 and help alleviate the constant checking Giroux faces. That in itself should help Giroux immensely. Hopefully Cousins and Laughton step up their games as well because that's even more help for Giroux. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted August 16, 2016 Author Share Posted August 16, 2016 2 hours ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said: That's why Couturieur being hurry was such a big blow. He was actually producing offensively and at one point was on a 60+ point pace until he got hurt. If he's injury free and if the Flyers are going to give him good wingers to work with (Voracek and Konecny), he should be able to hit 60 and help alleviate the constant checking Giroux faces. That in itself should help Giroux immensely. Hopefully Cousins and Laughton step up their games as well because that's even more help for Giroux. agree... be careful though, there are some serious Couts haters around here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icehole Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 On 8/13/2016 at 9:50 AM, mojo1917 said: @icehole I think the reason one doesn't trade Giroux is no one thinks the Edmonton model of going with all 1st round picks has worked very well. No one would hang in there with a team that has "a process" (see Philadelphia : Sixers) for more than couple of seasons. The hockey club is still a business and asses need to be in the seats and tuning in on TV. Dealing the best player for a handful of magic future beans hasn't shown to be a successful business model. What makes you think Giroux doesn't have the maturity to lead the team ? The guy is now 28, admittedly he got off to a little bit of a rocky start while he learned on the job, however, I think he's grown into a pretty good leader. I like him as a C better than I do Ovechkin. I actually couldn't tell you why I don't think he has the maturity...I just get that feeling. Just a year ago, he had some off ice issues, and this year, all I see is pictures of his fufu dog in a fufu car seat on Twitter. There's nothing wrong with that, but I'd rather have my captain be married, maybe with a kid, and have a Labrador. Maybe it's just because I'm getting older (35), but I feel like he's still a kid. I don't get that feeling with Crosby or many other captains that are close to the same age...I feel like those are men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icehole Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 17 hours ago, murraycraven said: agree... be careful though, there are some serious Couts haters around here I'll keep an eye out. Those SOBs need a beating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted August 17, 2016 Author Share Posted August 17, 2016 2 hours ago, icehole said: I'll keep an eye out. Those SOBs need a beating. LOL!! Well played! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 5 hours ago, icehole said: I don't get that feeling with Crosby The same Crosby that only recently got his own place ? He was living with Mario (or in Mario's house) for a pretty long time. Also 5 hours ago, icehole said: and this year, all I see is pictures of his fufu dog in a fufu car seat on Twitter. I'm not on twitter because i think it's stupid, 140 characters is a great way to spend all your time clarifying things, but that's a rant for another day... but, isn't the dog his fiance's ? So he lacks leadership ability IYO because of a "feeling" you have, that one time he acted like a drunk ass in public, and his girlfriend's dog ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 27 minutes ago, mojo1917 said: I'm not on twitter because i think it's stupid AMEN! ...Glad I'm not the only one who feels that way....... carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icehole Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 48 minutes ago, mojo1917 said: The same Crosby that only recently got his own place ? He was living with Mario (or in Mario's house) for a pretty long time. Also I'm not on twitter because i think it's stupid, 140 characters is a great way to spend all your time clarifying things, but that's a rant for another day... but, isn't the dog his fiance's ? So he lacks leadership ability IYO because of a "feeling" you have, that one time he acted like a drunk ass in public, and his girlfriend's dog ? I'm not really sure who's dog it is. He posted it on his Twitter so I assumed it was his. It's just how I feel. There's people that command my respect as a leader, and I just don't get that feeling from him. Does Giroux win the cup with that group of scrubs that won this year? I don't think so. Certain players can change an entire culture of a team. This reason is admittedly stupid, but it's just who I am. I remember watching a good night of playoff hockey this spring. I woke up the next morning, looked at twitter, and Giroux posted a few tweets about the NBA playoffs the night before. I hate the NBA so it rubbed me the wrong way, but does that say something about someone's passion for his sport? Some players look at it as a job and they succeed at doing their job. Some players live it 24/7 and have a better chance at succeeding. I want someone who's as passionate as I am for the NHL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted August 17, 2016 Author Share Posted August 17, 2016 13 minutes ago, icehole said: I'm not really sure who's dog it is. He posted it on his Twitter so I assumed it was his. It's just how I feel. There's people that command my respect as a leader, and I just don't get that feeling from him. Does Giroux win the cup with that group of scrubs that won this year? I don't think so. Certain players can change an entire culture of a team. This reason is admittedly stupid, but it's just who I am. I remember watching a good night of playoff hockey this spring. I woke up the next morning, looked at twitter, and Giroux posted a few tweets about the NBA playoffs the night before. I hate the NBA so it rubbed me the wrong way, but does that say something about someone's passion for his sport? Some players look at it as a job and they succeed at doing their job. Some players live it 24/7 and have a better chance at succeeding. I want someone who's as passionate as I am for the NHL. I seriously hope this is a joke - right? LOL... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icehole Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 3 minutes ago, murraycraven said: I seriously hope this is a joke - right? LOL... Nope. I guess I'm just a weirdo that looks too far into things. I hope Giroux proves me wrong and puts the team on his back to get us a cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted August 17, 2016 Author Share Posted August 17, 2016 16 minutes ago, icehole said: Nope. I guess I'm just a weirdo that looks too far into things. I hope Giroux proves me wrong and puts the team on his back to get us a cup. How did you grade players before social media? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icehole Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 1 minute ago, murraycraven said: How did you grade players before social media? That's a good question. I guess I just judged them on the way they composed themselves on the ice. But we do live in an era of social media so we do get to see the true personality of these players. There's parallels between what I see on social media and what I see on the ice. Most players don't bake cakes and take bubble baths then tear it up on the ice. Usually the off ice personality matches the on ice personality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted August 17, 2016 Author Share Posted August 17, 2016 Just now, icehole said: That's a good question. I guess I just judged them on the way they composed themselves on the ice. But we do live in an era of social media so we do get to see the true personality of these players. There's parallels between what I see on social media and what I see on the ice. Most players don't bake cakes and take bubble baths then tear it up on the ice. Usually the off ice personality matches the on ice personality. so MDZ in euro-style bathing suit/mankini everyday on Instagram tells us what about him? Sorry man... not trying to be a jerk but just find this all comical! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icehole Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 1 minute ago, murraycraven said: so MDZ in euro-style bathing suit/mankini everyday on Instagram tells us what about him? Sorry man... not trying to be a jerk but just find this all comical! It tells me that MDZ always has his eye on tail. MDZ isn't the leader of this team though. Captains have different responsibilities that usually require a certain personality. When the flyers win the cup with a bunch of nancies, I guess I'll have to eat crow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted August 17, 2016 Author Share Posted August 17, 2016 1 minute ago, icehole said: When the flyers win the cup with a bunch of nancies, I guess I'll have to eat crow. what captain ever won a cup with a bunch of nancies? a captain does not win a series alone - let alone the cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icehole Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 1 minute ago, murraycraven said: what captain ever won a cup with a bunch of nancies? a captain does not win a series alone - let alone the cup. That's what a good captain is for...to get those nancies in line. That's when you can win a cup with guys that were in the AHL the previous year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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