Podein25 Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 20 minutes ago, flyercanuck said: @pilldoc I think his best option would be to play one year in Chicoutimi and then go to the A. i'm pretty sure he could go that route since he wasn't drafted out of the CHL. Agreed. It would be interesting to see how he performs in the Q against his peers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aziz Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 2 hours ago, OccamsRazor said: Plus if you sign him to an ELC and he comes over and plays in the AHL next year his contract will not count, it will slide another year. i don't think that is true. if he signs a pro contract, and then plays under that contract, a year of that contract ticks off. If he were to not play under the ELC, i.e., in the CHA, then it slides...but a year of playing under contract is a year playing under contract. i could be wrong, but am pretty sure. he IS eligible for the AHL, though, to the other question floating around. if a european player is drafted by the NHL before the CHA, he is not forced into one or the other, minor leagues are an option. they just cost a year against the contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 1 hour ago, aziz said: i don't think that is true. if he signs a pro contract, and then plays under that contract, a year of that contract ticks off. If he were to not play under the ELC, i.e., in the CHA, then it slides...but a year of playing under contract is a year playing under contract. i could be wrong, but am pretty sure. he IS eligible for the AHL, though, to the other question floating around. if a european player is drafted by the NHL before the CHA, he is not forced into one or the other, minor leagues are an option. they just cost a year against the contract. Not true. Flyers did it Hagg's 1st year in the AHL and his contract slid. Because his bithday was before September 15th. The Ducks did the same with Hampus Lindholm he played in the AHL at 19 and his contract slid. That is why if you notice Morin and Hagg have the same amount of time left on their entry level deals 2 years. Hagg has played 2 years in the AHL and Morin only one. It's cause Hagg 1st year slid and it didn't count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJgoal Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 Right. If a player is 18 or 19, the contract slides if they don't play in 10 NHL games. AHL doesn't count. An AHL slide is just a less common occurrence because kids drafted out of the CHL can't play in the AHL when they're slide eligible. Sliding a contract is also a way to decrease the cap hit (though admittedly by a small amount, as the bonus can only be 10% of the total contract value) . If a player has a signing bonus, that bonus is paid immediately. If the contract slides, it is deducted from the value of the contract and the AAV is recalculated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 40 minutes ago, AJgoal said: Right. If a player is 18 or 19, the contract slides if they don't play in 10 NHL games. AHL doesn't count. An AHL slide is just a less common occurrence because kids drafted out of the CHL can't play in the AHL when they're slide eligible. Sliding a contract is also a way to decrease the cap hit (though admittedly by a small amount, as the bonus can only be 10% of the total contract value) . If a player has a signing bonus, that bonus is paid immediately. If the contract slides, it is deducted from the value of the contract and the AAV is recalculated. I think what you are saying is right. I miss read it the 1st time. But yeah it slides if they don't play 10 NHL games during that year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aziz Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 46 minutes ago, AJgoal said: Right. If a player is 18 or 19, the contract slides if they don't play in 10 NHL games. AHL doesn't count. An AHL slide is just a less common occurrence because kids drafted out of the CHL can't play in the AHL when they're slide eligible. Sliding a contract is also a way to decrease the cap hit (though admittedly by a small amount, as the bonus can only be 10% of the total contract value) . If a player has a signing bonus, that bonus is paid immediately. If the contract slides, it is deducted from the value of the contract and the AAV is recalculated. well, that's just weird. it makes sense to me that a guy sent back to the CHA wouldn't have a year tick off, because he didn't get paid. to have a guy make a professional salary, but not have his term decrease..is weird. nhlnumbers agrees with you guys, i just never knew that. and have a hard time believing it, but looks like you must be right. also: weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 12 hours ago, aziz said: well, that's just weird. it makes sense to me that a guy sent back to the CHA wouldn't have a year tick off, because he didn't get paid. to have a guy make a professional salary, but not have his term decrease..is weird. nhlnumbers agrees with you guys, i just never knew that. and have a hard time believing it, but looks like you must be right. also: weird. Hey, apparently you can play seven full seasons in the KHL as a pro and be considered a rookie! Who knew? In all seriousness, I wish they would dispense with the AHL age restriction for CHL players. I'm not sure it is in the players' best interests - certainly some, yes. But for many players, the extra two years are not helpful and it seems like they would be better served playing against men in the AHL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted July 6, 2016 Author Share Posted July 6, 2016 To all, Thanks for the info! I don't know all the ins an outs with contracts so I greatly appreciate all the wealth information from those who responded to my inquiry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 6 minutes ago, brelic said: Hey, apparently you can play seven full seasons in the KHL as a pro and be considered a rookie! Who knew? In all seriousness, I wish they would dispense with the AHL age restriction for CHL players. I'm not sure it is in the players' best interests - certainly some, yes. But for many players, the extra two years are not helpful and it seems like they would be better served playing against men in the AHL. Sure there are a few players that it would help. There are many many more that it would hurt. There's also the damage you do to the CHL teams themselves...they have to rebuild every 2-4 years as it is. Imagine finally building a championship calibre team only to have some impatient idiot NHL manager (oh ya, there's none of them) rip your heart and soul out and destroy a kids future cause he couldn't wait? Imagine trading a huge chunk of your future for a player to take a run at the Memorial Cup and Paul Holmgren decides he'd be better off barely playing on his last place Phantoms squad? Ya, let's do something that hurts the main supplier of talent for the NHL...makes sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 5 minutes ago, flyercanuck said: Sure there are a few players that it would help. There are many many more that it would hurt. There's also the damage you do to the CHL teams themselves...they have to rebuild every 2-4 years as it is. Imagine finally building a championship calibre team only to have some impatient idiot NHL manager (oh ya, there's none of them) rip your heart and soul out and destroy a kids future cause he couldn't wait? Imagine trading a huge chunk of your future for a player to take a run at the Memorial Cup and Paul Holmgren decides he'd be better off barely playing on his last place Phantoms squad? Ya, let's do something that hurts the main supplier of talent for the NHL...makes sense to me. I still believe it should be an option for NHL teams to have certain players play in the AHL instead of going back. This all-or-nothing approach doesn't necessarily serve players well. A guy like Provorov might be a great example, or Konecny. An extra year of junior is probably not helpful, but a leap straight to the NHL might be too much. In terms of the 'damage' to CHL teams, well, that's the way it works. I mean, AHL cities go through the same thing. They are designed to be feeder leagues and development leagues, and have a high turnover rate. I'm sure a sane balance could be found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted July 6, 2016 Author Share Posted July 6, 2016 13 minutes ago, brelic said: This all-or-nothing approach doesn't necessarily serve players well. A guy like Provorov might be a great example, or Konecny. An extra year of junior is probably not helpful, but a leap straight to the NHL might be too much. Absolutely agree with this statement. .... I might add we might see some these future stars a bit earlier in the NHL too which certainly would help their NHL team sooner. Like you mentioned Brel .... could you imagine having the likes of a Provorov or Konecny with the Phantoms last year. If that were to occur, then both of those players would have the experience needed to make a legitimate shot at making the Flyers this year...... I see both sides.... However ..as the ole saying goes...it is what it is...thought I agree..there could be some small tweaks here and there to the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 1 minute ago, brelic said: I still believe it should be an option for NHL teams to have certain players play in the AHL instead of going back. This all-or-nothing approach doesn't necessarily serve players well. A guy like Provorov might be a great example, or Konecny. An extra year of junior is probably not helpful, but a leap straight to the NHL might be too much. In terms of the 'damage' to CHL teams, well, that's the way it works. I mean, AHL cities go through the same thing. They are designed to be feeder leagues and development leagues, and have a high turnover rate. I'm sure a sane balance could be found. There are definitely a few players that should probably go straight to the A. The problem is there are too many gms who want to rush things. Provorov looks like he's ready. So does Konecny. But it wouldn't kill Konecny to bulk up a bit more and learn to pick his spots when going for the hit before he plays against bigger/faster/more talented. The AHL isn't the same. Junior teams typically have their players for 2-3 years. Taking a year away from their best players is going to hurt the franchise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJ8812 Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 guy was born in 1998...lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 On 7/6/2016 at 9:05 AM, flyercanuck said: There are definitely a few players that should probably go straight to the A. The problem is there are too many gms who want to rush things. Provorov looks like he's ready. So does Konecny. But it wouldn't kill Konecny to bulk up a bit more and learn to pick his spots when going for the hit before he plays against bigger/faster/more talented. The AHL isn't the same. Junior teams typically have their players for 2-3 years. Taking a year away from their best players is going to hurt the franchise. We have done this dance before....it's true, the OHL and or the CHL is the "main" supplier of talent since the draft process started. The health and financial well being of those franchises (especially ones with a small population to draw from) depends on their stars playing as long as possible. Like you said, there are some instances where the best move for a players development is to be in the AHL, playing against men. I think that may only be the case in about 10% of the time, maybe even less. Perhaps an amicable agreement can be made for varying circumstances. For example, an OHL team is in last place, but the AHL team is in a life and death battle to make the playoffs....in a case like this, maybe players can move back and forth when needed. You could make a rule that the prospect is not allowed to miss any home games, so the gate of the OHL team is more or less secured. Instead of feeling threatened by each other, the CHL and AHL should be sitting down at a table and find out if any spaghetti sticks to the wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 Ol' Sammy boy just released this latest story about German a 1/2 hour ago. A lot of rehash, but did reveal a few things. My comfort level with this pick went up a few notches when I read that Nick Pryor personally watched Rubes play 8 times (hey.....like the sound of that...RUBES....it may be official....lol). Pryor is just a savvy scout, trust his judgement 100%. http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/20160710_A_bright_side_to_delayed_arrival_of_Rubtsov.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 18 minutes ago, jammer2 said: Ol' Sammy boy just released this latest story about German a 1/2 hour ago. A lot of rehash, but did reveal a few things. My comfort level with this pick went up a few notches when I read that Nick Pryor personally watched Rubes play 8 times (hey.....like the sound of that...RUBES....it may be official....lol). Pryor is just a savvy scout, trust his judgement 100%. http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/20160710_A_bright_side_to_delayed_arrival_of_Rubtsov.html I like Pavel Malkin better..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said: I like Pavel Malkin better..... When he scores, maybe the Flyers play "RU-Bey" Tuesday for his official goal song...."he could hang a deke on you....when you change with every new day, still he's gonna beat you"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aziz Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 9 hours ago, jammer2 said: We have done this dance before....it's true, the OHL and or the CHL is the "main" supplier of talent since the draft process started. The health and financial well being of those franchises (especially ones with a small population to draw from) depends on their stars playing as long as possible. Like you said, there are some instances where the best move for a players development is to be in the AHL, playing against men. I think that may only be the case in about 10% of the time, maybe even less. Perhaps an amicable agreement can be made for varying circumstances. For example, an OHL team is in last place, but the AHL team is in a life and death battle to make the playoffs....in a case like this, maybe players can move back and forth when needed. You could make a rule that the prospect is not allowed to miss any home games, so the gate of the OHL team is more or less secured. Instead of feeling threatened by each other, the CHL and AHL should be sitting down at a table and find out if any spaghetti sticks to the wall. That's kind of the way it is now. CHA-eligible players are allowed in the AHL, they just have to be offered to the CHA club first. Presumably the CHA club has the option of "releasing" the player, if they find themselves in a spot like you describe, completely out of the running. There just isn't any real motivation to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claude Monet Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 http://360tv.ru/news/budu-tyanutsya-za-panarinym-i-bolet-za-provorova-german-rubcov-63423/ not sure if this was posted but got it off the hf board. The kid def has a pros mentality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phlfly Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 he is saying that he will spend at least one or two years in Vityz. But he also mentioned he wanted to play now for the Flyers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 I guess Rubstov played outstanding in the Russia vs Canada series for jrs. There is a goal he scored down a bit in the link Im going to post.....ALSO....rumour has it that Rubs may be leaving Russia this year and play the rest of the season in the QHL....which would be great for his development and us, craving info. http://www.dobberprospects.com/prospect-ramblings-canadarussia-series-notes-nov-13-2016/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 40 minutes ago, jammer2 said: I guess Rubstov played outstanding in the Russia vs Canada series for jrs. There is a goal he scored down a bit in the link Im going to post.....ALSO....rumour has it that Rubs may be leaving Russia this year and play the rest of the season in the QHL....which would be great for his development and us, craving info. http://www.dobberprospects.com/prospect-ramblings-canadarussia-series-notes-nov-13-2016/ That would be sweet to see Pavel Malkin come over and get his North American career jump started!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 German Rubtsov could be arriving in North America earlier than expected http://sonsofpenn.com/flyers/european-prospect-update-german-rubtsov-khl-contract/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 On 11/13/2016 at 5:49 PM, jammer2 said: I guess Rubstov played outstanding in the Russia vs Canada series for jrs. There is a goal he scored down a bit in the link Im going to post.....ALSO....rumour has it that Rubs may be leaving Russia this year and play the rest of the season in the QHL....which would be great for his development and us, craving info. http://www.dobberprospects.com/prospect-ramblings-canadarussia-series-notes-nov-13-2016/ He played great in a couple of games, ok in one and pretty poorly in another. Which is fine for an 18 year old IMO. He certainly looks like a Hakstol guy (plays equally well all over the ice) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJgoal Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 http://www.courierpostonline.com/story/sports/nhl/flyers/2016/11/14/no-progress-german-rubtsov-coming-overseas-chicoutimi-saguenens-russia/93807766/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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