Flyers Draft - German Rubtsov (C) - Russia U18

[flyercanuck]

2 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

He has to be traded first.

 

 

they'll have to resurrect the Whaler franchise.

[OccamsRazor]

7 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

I could see a "doping" Malkin/Datsyuk falling all the way to 2nd overall...not 22nd.

 

 

Like i was saying this person seen qualities of them in his game. It wasn't saying he was going to be the next one like them.

 

And after watching some of the film on him yes i can see some of it.

 

But it also doesn't tell me anything more than really that...someone can look like them. It happens a lot.

 

Like i see Briere in Konecny's play doesn't mean he'll be like him but i can see it in the highlights very similar.

[OccamsRazor]

5 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

 

they'll have to resurrect the Whaler franchise.

 

Plus Morin will have to get involved in some of the ice trouble like a bar fight and a DUI or something like he did right. I mean Christ if Pronger was Pronger at the draft no way Daigle gets picked before him..........right? No way the Sens are that stupid?

 

Besides Pronger's 1st two season in the NHL wasn't anything special...30 points the 1st and 14 the next. Hardly earth shattering. Players evolve and grow to become great.

[OccamsRazor]

11 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

Sure...but if a quarterback came into a draft as "the next Tom Brady" he's going 1st overall. 

 

Sure. But he wasn't....hence how he slides into your lap. Projection. It's not an exact science.

[aziz]

35 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

Sure...but if a quarterback came into a draft as "the next Tom Brady" he's going 1st overall. 

 

I think the point is that while Datsyuk had the tools he would eventually leverage to become the world's best stick handler,  a combination of limited exposure and those tools having been unpolished saw him go #171.   Players that have matured skillsets early AND have been stared at for hours and hours by hundreds of scouts go really high in the draft.  Players with raw tools that have been less than visible (for whatever reason)  do not. That isn't a real comment on what they are going to be like in a few years.  

 

I like the phrase "Datsyuk wasn't Datsyuk until he became Datsyuk".  It's at least conceivable we have a similar situation now.   Granted,  a lot of home-team hope is involved there.  Then again,  any Detroit fan saying the 171st pick in 1998 might turn out to be a big deal was hanging on a lot of home team hope,  too.  Rubtsov seems like he is seen more favorably now than Datsyuk was in June of '98, so....who knows? 

[OccamsRazor]

This kid i think has a lot of great tools...and it will only grow i think.

 

 

 

just check the forecheck at 1:18 forcing a turnover and a nice goal. Hak will love this guy.

 

I also love that he isn't your typical Russian puck hog he isn't afraid to pass it and set someone else up...very unselfish and a very aggressive forechecker. He reminds me of a faster Coots as well with his awareness.

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

I love the Datsyuk comparison. If he ever gets his shot off more, he might be closer to Federov. He could be something real special. The while doping scandal thing doesn't worst me either. These were kids that were manipulated by a system and doctors that were supposed to have their best interests at heart. No wonder why he's trying to get his agent to get him out of his contact....

 

[OccamsRazor]

I'm ok with the kid going back to the KHL next season but i would love to see him be able to get out of his contract and start the following year in the AHL at least to get his north american game jump started and go from there.

 

I'm going to let him find his own game and not to put a lot of expectations on him to start. I think the sky is he limit with him from the skillset i have seen him display and his willingness to play both ends of the ice....somethings you can't teach you have to already have.

[brelic]

12 hours ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

I love the Datsyuk comparison. If he ever gets his shot off more, he might be closer to Federov. He could be something real special. The while doping scandal thing doesn't worst me either. These were kids that were manipulated by a system and doctors that were supposed to have their best interests at heart. No wonder why he's trying to get his agent to get him out of his contact....

 

 

It sounds like a relatively mild drug in any case that appears to have similar properties to arginine and citrulline as a vasodilator and carrying more oxygen around the body. Plus, it was only added as a banned substance in January - a few months before they tested positive. 

 

 

[flyercanuck]

On 7/2/2016 at 11:51 AM, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

Like i was saying this person seen qualities of them in his game. It wasn't saying he was going to be the next one like them.

 

And after watching some of the film on him yes i can see some of it.

 

But it also doesn't tell me anything more than really that...someone can look like them. It happens a lot.

 

Like i see Briere in Konecny's play doesn't mean he'll be like him but i can see it in the highlights very similar.

 

Sure. in highlights you can see Datsyuk/Malkin in Rinaldo...

 

 

[flyercanuck]

On 7/2/2016 at 0:36 PM, aziz said:

 

I think the point is that while Datsyuk had the tools he would eventually leverage to become the world's best stick handler,  a combination of limited exposure and those tools having been unpolished saw him go #171.   Players that have matured skillsets early AND have been stared at for hours and hours by hundreds of scouts go really high in the draft.  Players with raw tools that have been less than visible (for whatever reason)  do not. That isn't a real comment on what they are going to be like in a few years.  

 

I like the phrase "Datsyuk wasn't Datsyuk until he became Datsyuk".  It's at least conceivable we have a similar situation now.   Granted,  a lot of home-team hope is involved there.  Then again,  any Detroit fan saying the 171st pick in 1998 might turn out to be a big deal was hanging on a lot of home team hope,  too.  Rubtsov seems like he is seen more favorably now than Datsyuk was in June of '98, so....who knows? 

 

Ya, scouting wasn't what it is when Detroit was grabbing their big 3 late in the draft. It still happens, but you see a larger amount of the better players go higher in the draft these days.

 

I think the pick was just fine. I love 2 way players much more than all offence one way guys. I'm just not a fan of labelling prospects with over-the-top likely unattainable projections. Yes there's a chance Rubtsov becomes a superstar....I'd rather let him develop at his own pace without all that unnecessary added pressure.

[flyercanuck]

20 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

It sounds like a relatively mild drug in any case that appears to have similar properties to arginine and citrulline as a vasodilator and carrying more oxygen around the body. Plus, it was only added as a banned substance in January - a few months before they tested positive. 

 

 

 

Again, when an entire team of teenagers gets banned, I blame the adults. I have zero concern about him being a product of banned substances.

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, flyercanuck said:

 

Sure. in highlights you can see Datsyuk/Malkin in Rinaldo...

 

 

 

 

Yeah but was that Zac Rinaldo before he was Zac Rinaldo though???

[brelic]

14 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

Yeah but was that Zac Rinaldo before he was Zac Rinaldo though???

 

Exactly. Zac wasn't Zac before he was Zac. We converted him from a 6th round pick to a 3rd round pick. We did well, I'd say.

 

And for the record, that says a lot about Zac's character and determination too that he was able to make it to the NHL a) as a 6th rounder, and b) as a role player.

 

[aziz]

1 hour ago, flyercanuck said:

I'm just not a fan of labelling prospects with over-the-top likely unattainable projections. Yes there's a chance Rubtsov becomes a superstar....I'd rather let him develop at his own pace without all that unnecessary added pressure.

 

Agree there,  well said. 

[flyerrod]

45 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

Exactly. Zac wasn't Zac before he was Zac. We converted him from a 6th round pick to a 3rd round pick. We did well, I'd say.

 

And for the record, that says a lot about Zac's character and determination too that he was able to make it to the NHL a) as a 6th rounder, and b) as a role player.

 

Too bad he did not remember to bring his brain with him..........Rinaldo has potential but his own 10 cent brain will keep him forever a side show.

[OccamsRazor]

And for the record...since my comment started all the datsyuk talk....a fan didn't say that...

 

...that was a quote/label placed on him a scout when asked for compaisons of his style of play.

 

Scouts do that all the time compare players especially at similar stages. No biggie.

[brelic]

44 minutes ago, flyerrod said:

Too bad he did not remember to bring his brain with him..........Rinaldo has potential but his own 10 cent brain will keep him forever a side show.

 

Absolutely - but he nevertheless stands far above the myriad other late round picks who never sniff the NHL. He understood what he had to do to make it to the big show - however brief that might be for him. He's managed 275 NHL games. Not bad for a guy averaging like 5 points per season, lol!

 

[pilldoc]

18 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

Absolutely - but he nevertheless stands far above the myriad other late round picks who never sniff the NHL. He understood what he had to do to make it to the big show - however brief that might be for him. He's managed 275 NHL games. Not bad for a guy averaging like 5 points per season, lol!

 

 

And in 275 NHL games he has managed to accumulate 655 PIM which begs to ask the question...how the hell did Hexy manage to milk a 3rd rounder out of Boston for him??Trying not to hijack the Rubtsov thread but damm Zac sure did love to skate on the edge.......

[brelic]

1 minute ago, pilldoc said:

 

And in 275 NHL games he has managed to accumulate 655 PIM which begs to ask the question...how the hell did Hexy manage to milk a 3rd rounder out of Boston for him??Trying not to hijack the Rubtsov thread but damm Zac sure did love to skate on the edge.......

 

Exactly - and the biggest problem with Zac is that he started going over the edge too much and became much more of a liability than an asset. Dumb decisions, over and over. But for a brief period of time - maybe over a few seasons - I actually liked him in the O&B. I knew it would be entertaining whenever he was on the ice. He sure could steamroll people for a guy his size.

 

Back to Rubtsov, I understand why it's not helpful to make comparisons ("Morin is like a young Pronger") because it unnecessarily raises expectations. Those are grand pronouncements. Pronger was one of the best to play the game. So was Datsyuk. It's definitely more than unfair to lay those expectations on 17 year olds, even generational talents like Crosby. It undoubtedly affects them in ways we probably aren't even aware. It's a ton of pressure, and takes away from their individuality. 

 

However Rubtsov turns out, I'm sure we will have a fine player in his own right. 

 

[pilldoc]

17 minutes ago, brelic said:

Exactly - and the biggest problem with Zac is that he started going over the edge too much and became much more of a liability than an asset. Dumb decisions, over and over. But for a brief period of time - maybe over a few seasons - I actually liked him in the O&B. I knew it would be entertaining whenever he was on the ice. He sure could steamroll people for a guy his size.

 

Yup... basically took the words right out of my mouth.  Probably the best summation of Zac's time in O&B I have ever read.

 

17 minutes ago, brelic said:

Back to Rubtsov, I understand why it's not helpful to make comparisons ("Morin is like a young Pronger") because it unnecessarily raises expectations. Those are grand pronouncements. Pronger was one of the best to play the game. So was Datsyuk. It's definitely more than unfair to lay those expectations on 17 year olds, even generational talents like Crosby. It undoubtedly affects them in ways we probably aren't even aware. It's a ton of pressure, and takes away from their individuality. 

 

However Rubtsov turns out, I'm sure we will have a fine player in his own right. 

 

Here is my take.... Over the past few weeks as I read a lot of scouting reports on many many prospects.  The best wording I have seen when regarding their potential is this:

 

"His game is similar to XXXX XXXXXX, however this is a stylistic comparison only and not one based on skill level."

 

I think this is the best way to describe prospects and hopefully not too much pressure on them.  I agree I want Rubstov to define himself with his talent.  If he plays a little bit like Malkin and a little bit like Datsyuk...style wise..then I am all for it.  However, I think we would all be doing ourselves a bit if disservice if we expect them to perform up to par with those two players.  Like @OccamsRazor made mention...he was just referencing what a scout said about Rubtsov.  However, I would like him over here sooner than later so he can adjusted to the North American/NHL/AHL/CHL style of play.

[OccamsRazor]

2 hours ago, pilldoc said:

 

Yup... basically took the words right out of my mouth.  Probably the best summation of Zac's time in O&B I have ever read.

 

 

Here is my take.... Over the past few weeks as I read a lot of scouting reports on many many prospects.  The best wording I have seen when regarding their potential is this:

 

"His game is similar to XXXX XXXXXX, however this is a stylistic comparison only and not one based on skill level."

 

I think this is the best way to describe prospects and hopefully not too much pressure on them.  I agree I want Rubstov to define himself with his talent.  If he plays a little bit like Malkin and a little bit like Datsyuk...style wise..then I am all for it.  However, I think we would all be doing ourselves a bit if disservice if we expect them to perform up to par with those two players.  Like @OccamsRazor made mention...he was just referencing what a scout said about Rubtsov.  However, I would like him over here sooner than later so he can adjusted to the North American/NHL/AHL/CHL style of play.

 

 

Plus if you sign him to an ELC and he comes over and plays in the AHL next year his contract will not count, it will slide another year.

 

Do it Do it Do it

[pilldoc]

53 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

Plus if you sign him to an ELC and he comes over and plays in the AHL next year his contract will not count, it will slide another year.

Do it Do it Do it

 

I would love to see him come over this year.  So here are 3 options and I'm not sure which is better in this case. 

1. Since he is now 18 he IS eligible to play in AHL this year...not sure if this is a valid option for him this season though. (He can play at this age since he was NOT in the CHL last year and the min age for AHL is 18.
2. He plays 1 more year in Russia and then next year plays in the AHL.
3. He was drafted 2016, round 1 #27 overall by Chicoutimi Saguenéens in the CHL Import Draft and plays this year in the CHL. If he does, does he now follow the rules for CHL and AHL and that he would have to wait until he was 20 or he graduated out of the CHL before being eligible to play in AHL?

Though it is rare for 18 yrs old to play in the AHL, I would tend to lean towards your thoughts and try to get him over here sooner than later and get him acclimated to North American stye of hockey.  I think the better he can be under the watchful eye of the Flyers organization...all the better.

[OccamsRazor]

58 minutes ago, pilldoc said:

 

I would love to see him come over this year.  So here are 3 options and I'm not sure which is better in this case. 

1. Since he is now 18 he IS eligible to play in AHL this year...not sure if this is a valid option for him this season though. (He can play at this age since he was NOT in the CHL last year and the min age for AHL is 18.
2. He plays 1 more year in Russia and then next year plays in the AHL.
3. He was drafted 2016, round 1 #27 overall by Chicoutimi Saguenéens in the CHL Import Draft and plays this year in the CHL. If he does, does he now follow the rules for CHL and AHL and that he would have to wait until he was 20 or he graduated out of the CHL before being eligible to play in AHL?

Though it is rare for 18 yrs old to play in the AHL, I would tend to lean towards your thoughts and try to get him over here sooner than later and get him acclimated to North American stye of hockey.  I think the better he can be under the watchful eye of the Flyers organization...all the better.

 

 

I don't think he would have to play in the CHL since he was draft out of the Russian league.

 

 

But i could be wrong. They just owns his rights so if he plays junior he has to play for them.

[flyercanuck]

@pilldoc

 

I think his best option would be to play one year in Chicoutimi and then go to the A. i'm pretty sure he could go that route since he wasn't drafted out of the CHL.