Polaris922 Posted April 21, 2015 Author Share Posted April 21, 2015 Now THAT is some capital A whining!Am I speaking Swedish? What is whining about asking if the star players should show their disgust with the way the league fails to protect them? It's been discussed a lot without any solution for bad officiating, with no solution. So throwing this out there is whining? Me thinks you're trolling me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted April 21, 2015 Author Share Posted April 21, 2015 Let me try this...Baaaa... Baa baa baaaaa... Baaaa ba baa baa aaa!That any clearer? Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Am I speaking Swedish? What is whining about asking if the star players should show their disgust with the way the league fails to protect them? It's been discussed a lot without any solution for bad officiating, with no solution. So throwing this out there is whining? Me thinks you're trolling me.I'm not trolling you I can assure you. It's a contact sport. We see that play very differently that's all.Edit: let's leave it at that: agree to disagree on that hit.Or not... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted April 21, 2015 Author Share Posted April 21, 2015 I'm not trolling you I can assure you. It's a contact sport. We see that play very differently that's all.Edit: let's leave it at that: agree to disagree on that hit.Or not...I moved past that play two posts ago. What do YOU think the big name players can do to raise the level of officiating to where they're protected from cheap shots? Or do you think they should just take them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idahophilly Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 So rather than debate the topic of protecting stars and how a guy like him does everything the league asks despite no protection from hits like Steckel's or Downie's... You choose to go typical Flyets on me and debate one call/non-call then insult me as a fan. AFTER saying you're getting back to the point...I should rephrase my topic to read... For anyone who wants to have an objective conversation about the topic LolOK, OK... Lets take this down a notch. Everyone and myself. Sorry Polaris. Your thread took on a life about the actual hit. I did try to steer it back but had to go check the replay just to make sure I saw it the right way. (I have had a lot of my threads with good intentions get "hijacked" so I know how you feel) I think we can all agree that this is one of the confusing things about the NHL. However, I want you to consider this. If we follow your logic through to it's natural conclusion then any face of a league or a franchise should be protected more because they are doing all the extra "leg" work. You may have not meant that. I don't know. But either protect everyone or no one. The mechanics of this one hit don't matter, thank god, since Crosby seems fine to me tonight. Fans of opposing teams tend to get ticked off when fans of a particular player say they should be protected and if they are not they should pack up their toys and go home. Anyway, I think Sid and his team did the right thing is this case which was nothing. Other cases, the NHL didn't walk the walk on what they talk. I see no real change happening in these regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 I moved past that play two posts ago. What do YOU think the big name players can do to raise the level of officiating to where they're protected from cheap shots? Or do you think they should just take them?I don't see that as a cheap shot. Crosby should keep his head up when he's headed up ice in the neutral zone. Lottsa big bodies there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted April 21, 2015 Author Share Posted April 21, 2015 I don't see that as a cheap shot. Crosby should keep his head up when he's headed up ice in the neutral zone. Lottsa big bodies there.You're unable to move past that one incident and discuss the topic of this thread. No matter how I say it, even in sheepish, you're stuck on this one. Another time, my friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idahophilly Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 I truly wish I had an answer. Sounds like the NHLPA and/or team management should be the ones "attacking" the problem with the league. Leave the players playing and doing there PR thing. The moment Sid or Giroux or any star stop doing the PR thing it makes them a target on the ice (whinny bitch, I'm gonna get under his skin tonight with a high hit) and off the ice (Beat reporters rip Sid for not going to the charity event and not being a "team" player kinda crap or "I refuse to be on the cover of the new video game")... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted April 21, 2015 Author Share Posted April 21, 2015 OK, OK... Lets take this down a notch. Everyone and myself. Sorry Polaris. Your thread took on a life about the actual hit. I did try to steer it back but had to go check the replay just to make sure I saw it the right way. (I have had a lot of my threads with good intentions get "hijacked" so I know how you feel)I think we can all agree that this is one of the confusing things about the NHL. However, I want you to consider this. If we follow your logic through to it's natural conclusion then any face of a league or a franchise should be protected more because they are doing all the extra "leg" work. You may have not meant that. I don't know. But either protect everyone or no one. The mechanics of this one hit don't matter, thank god, since Crosby seems fine to me tonight.Fans of opposing teams tend to get ticked off when fans of a particular player say they should be protected and if they are not they should pack up their toys and go home.Anyway, I think Sid and his team did the right thing is this case which was nothing. Other cases, the NHL didn't walk the walk on what they talk. I see no real change happening in these regards.The NFL protects star players. MLB has been accused of it on hit batters. These guys... The Perry's, Giroux's and Nash's are where the money comes in. I don't see people going to watch Downie and Carcillo. So why does the league allow those players to be slashed and cross checked into the IR? They promise they're going to call the rules but fail to every year. Team owners have complained but not enough to matter. Do the players want to protect themselves? The instigator rule works against that and they don't seem willing to drop that. So what can they do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idahophilly Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 besides, the players do pay the NHLPA and their agents a lot of money. You would think THEY (NHLPA) would be motivated to tackle this with the league. The teams may pay the players but the players put the bodies in the seats. You would think they would unite more and tackle it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted April 21, 2015 Author Share Posted April 21, 2015 besides, the players do pay the NHLPA and their agents a lot of money. You would think THEY (NHLPA) would be motivated to tackle this with the league. The teams may pay the players but the players put the bodies in the seats. You would think they would unite more and tackle it. Maybe the issue is the star players are too few amongst the NHLPA? Outnumbered by the average player, so to speak? I've heard people claim the star players are fine with how things are, but watch any team in any given night and you have even chances of a star player interviewing some unhappiness with officiating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idahophilly Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 The NFL protects star players. MLB has been accused of it on hit batters. These guys... The Perry's, Giroux's and Nash's are where the money comes in. I don't see people going to watch Downie and Carcillo. So why does the league allow those players to be slashed and cross checked into the IR?They promise they're going to call the rules but fail to every year. Team owners have complained but not enough to matter. Do the players want to protect themselves? The instigator rule works against that and they don't seem willing to drop that.So what can they do? Well, obviously this is difficult. On the ice it is difficult even with 4 officials to see everything at that speed. Right now we rely on the league "war room" to initiate any consideration of supplemental discipline. So, why can't a mechanism be put into place for a third party (not a team) to have a "challenge" motion against bad hits and such. Perhaps the NHLPA since they are not league or team oriented. Once initiated in an open to the public way, the onus is on the league to explain why supplemental discipline ISN'T warranted. It backs the league into a corner a bit but that might need to be the case. Of coarse there would have to be a counter mechanism to avoid every little thing being "challenged" by the NHLPA. But, do see where I'm going with the idea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idahophilly Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Using the crosby hit as an example, let's say the NHLPA feels strongly that was an intentional hit. They challenge the non call and no discipline by the league. Then the league has to spell out for everyone to see why they didn't care... This hit is a bad example but could you see the NHL actually having to say why it was ok to not care that a star player was hit high and the league didn't do anything about it. They would be shamed into a no tolerance stance once and for all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idahophilly Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 To help avoid abuse of the system, the player and players agent would have veto power of some sort if after a time they realize it wasn't an intentional or dirty hit and didn't want to challenge. I'm just spit balling here but it's the best I can come up with tonight... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted April 21, 2015 Author Share Posted April 21, 2015 Well, obviously this is difficult. On the ice it is difficult even with 4 officials to see everything at that speed. Right now we rely on the league "war room" to initiate any consideration of supplemental discipline. So, why can't a mechanism be put into place for a third party (not a team) to have a "challenge" motion against bad hits and such. Perhaps the NHLPA since they are not league or team oriented. Once initiated in an open to the public way, the onus is on the league to explain why supplemental discipline ISN'T warranted. It backs the league into a corner a bit but that might need to be the case. Of coarse there would have to a counter mechanism to avoid every little thing being "challenged" by the NHLPA. But, do see where I'm going with the idea?Actually yes, I like that idea. A challenge system so to speak, but with some weight behind it. The Department of Player Safety can be petitioned by a team to review already, but it seems they can just do what they want without consequence. Maybe a third party review that the NHL and the NHLPA agree to abide by. Interesting idea... Problem with the NHLPA issuing the challenge is that it's one of their own against one of their own. Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idahophilly Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 I have thought of that. It can't be a team because the Flyers will pick the Penguins to "challenge" often and vise-versa. You speak of the consequence issue and there in lies a major problem but perhaps easily fixed by my idea. The league has no consequences because they don't have any "pain" in the game being played (not the actual hockey game). I can't imagine the league defending a slash by say... Subban on the hand of another young star that is universally agreed was intentional that caused a micro fracture in the hand. That was just a hypothetical occurrence of coarse The consequence is total loss of credibility on a level the NHL has never seen, nor would risk, at least after it happened once. The third party initiation is the difficult thing to solve. Consider: Player- They are gonna complain and challenge all kinds of stuff.Team- We hate them and they beat us unfairly so lets lodge a challenge.League- They have "effed" up the whole thing already or we wouldn't be talking about it.NHLPA??? I have to look into their exact position in relation to the league, players and owners.Agents- might be an option but is essentially the player making the complaint. Perhaps this is were an arbitrator comes in to play and the loser has a considerable financial penalty to keep them "honest" as to how far they want to go with the challenge. Meaning, you better have a good case. If Bettman starts to have to write 500K checks to the NHLPA or charity or whatever I suspect things would change... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idahophilly Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Third party initiation: All three of the following HAVE to agree before a challenge happens: The player, the team and the NHLPA. All 3, no less. Maybe we work a panel of agents into it but NOT the players own agent. Less bias. Maybe even just go with a random selection of 5 independent teams GM's, 5 agents, the NHLPA and hell, consider 5 random players ( maybe a bad idea but again, just spit balling). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted April 21, 2015 Author Share Posted April 21, 2015 Third party initiation: All three of the following HAVE to agree before a challenge happens: The player, the team and the NHLPA. All 3, no less. Maybe we work a panel of agents into it but NOT the players own agent. Less bias. Maybe even just go with a random selection of 5 independent teams GM's, 5 agents, the NHLPA and hell, consider 5 random players ( maybe a bad idea but again, just spit balling). This is getting complex! Valid points about the abuse of challenges, though. Maybe like you said, a team can protest a hit or something, but if the league finds no issue and they've challenged so many times, or that particular team so many times, there is a penalty of some sort? I suppose my frustration has built up after watching my own team decimated season after season by injury, some of which has been at the hands of cheap shots. I know some guys say karma, but as one who railed against the cheap shot artists when they were here, I'm proud that the franchise got rid of the problem children. And I'm more disappointed in Downie's presence than anybody. At least all his penalties have been routine, nothing dirty that I saw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idahophilly Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 I totally get the frustration. I don't even mind Crosby. He's an easy and fun target for Flyers fans so pls forgive me. Anyone who is put in the position of his has to be given some latitude and understanding ( when the fan hating thing is set aside). It is complex which can become the enemy of the very idea. You can't create an entire NHL law system that bogs every thing down and costs millions of dollars in expert fee's. Maybe we dovetail this off the coaches challenge kinda thing idea. Rather than per game we go season and say each team can have 2-3 challenges per year in which the league has to face an independent arbitrator and win OR face fines if proven wrong which would keep them "more honest" and a team only has a very small finite number of challenges per year so they better use them wisely, keeping them more honest on what they challenge (whew, run on sentence). I have to chew on this more. One thing is for sure. if the player is found "guilty" by an arbitrator the fine would be far more than 2 games and 5K fine. I'm talking about making it hurt so bad you might want to give up a nad instead. That truly is where you are gonna stop this (not actually giving up one of your snarglies). What is lacking now is an effective mechanism to get there. Well, bed time here in Idaho. Catch you on the flip side. Let me know what you think and idea's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Yes. The question was, Sid gets hammered with cheap shots quite often, and the league turns a blind eye to them. The officials "miss it", then the league doesn't even review it most of the time.Eliminate the Hagelin hit as you feel that was incidental. Staal cross checking his head... Repeatedly. Downie slew footing him. Steckel's shouldering his head. Stuff like that.The league does nothing. Yet Sid goes all over promoting the game FOR THE NHL. Remove names from the equation. ANY star player...Would it make a statement to the league if they just quit doing that stuff for the league. NOT their team... NOT their own charities.. Just the NHL.Or would nobody care. We'd never really know the difference... Or would we? Crosby probably makes more money promoting the game than he does playing it. Every teams star players get similiar treatment from the opponent..Crosby is also known to be thrown off his game easily, so theres that. He played well last night. You might want to put an APB out for Malkin though, that guy is MIA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted April 21, 2015 Author Share Posted April 21, 2015 @idahophillyThanks for the ideas and looking at the topic rather than the names I used. Some good ideas. Shame the NHL doesn't care.@flyercanuckYeah Malkin is lost. How do you feel about the league's path of late? Stars have always been abused since the instigator rule. If they won't dispose of that rule, what other options are valid? And how should the players get them in place, if at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 @Polaris922 I don't think its so much the stars being abused...its hockey. The game is just getting overcoached. That Ranger/Pens series is the most boring one going, thanks to the Rags style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 I don't know about the rest of you, but every time I see this thread title, this goes through my mind: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted April 21, 2015 Author Share Posted April 21, 2015 @flyercanuckI've been referring more to the constant stick work and random elbows, interference, "incidental contacts", and similar non-stop dirty stuff the enforcers can no longer deal with yet officials refuse to call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted April 21, 2015 Author Share Posted April 21, 2015 I don't know about the rest of you, but every time I see this thread title, this goes through my mind:I didn't think it possible but I may be even dumber for having watched that. Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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