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I didnt have my glasses on...

icehole

By icehole
in Philadelphia Flyers

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brelic Newbie

brelic

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Not trying to speak for icehole, but I think he's making the case that that is the place you draft such a player--not as high as #8.

 

Sure... but no one thought that's where Couturier would top out, right? 

 

@icehole is sounding like drafting is some sort of exact science. There are tons and tons of 1st round busts and disappointments. Couturier might be one of them. Or he might not. Either way, it's still too early to tell.

 

The reason for my question, though, was to see if foot speed really is such a limiting factor, especially for Selke-type players who are expected to have an offensive side to their game as well.

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flyercanuck Grand Master

flyercanuck

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Yeah, but he was drafted 101st in the fourth round.  Not trying to speak for icehole, but I think he's making the case that that is the place you draft such a player--not as high as #8.

 

Sigh. We just went through a bunch of players who were drafted high who have taken on a more defensive role. And a bunch of players drafted at his same position who didn't blow his numbers away. What more can we say. He's not as good as most players taken 1st overall? OK, that I agree with. Nor should he be.

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flyercanuck Grand Master

flyercanuck

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Sure... but no one thought that's where Couturier would top out, right? 

 

@icehole is sounding like drafting is some sort of exact science. There are tons and tons of 1st round busts and disappointments. Couturier might be one of them. Or he might not. Either way, it's still too early to tell.

 

The reason for my question, though, was to see if foot speed really is such a limiting factor, especially for Selke-type players who are expected to have an offensive side to their game as well.

 

 

I listed every player taken at #8 going back 25 years somewhere around here. None of them are really superstars or anything. Derian hatcher might be the best pick of the bunch. And Couturier has a long career ahead of him to be better than that.

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murraycraven Newbie

murraycraven

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I listed every player taken at #8 going back 25 years somewhere around here. None of them are really superstars or anything. Derian hatcher might be the best pick of the bunch. And Couturier has a long career ahead of him to be better than that.

 

 

this is turning into the proverbial dead horse...  it has been kicked in the head, the legs, the torso, the ass, the tail and everywhere in between.

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flyercanuck Grand Master

flyercanuck

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It's a waste to take a potential Selke winner at #8? Look if you want to say Hamilton might have been a better use of the 8th overall most of us agree. But to say a potential Selke is a waste is pretty foolish. Heres a list of 8th overall players taken previous to Couturier..

.Burmistrov another Selke type...playing in the KHL, 

Scott Glennie, not a bad player, certainly not in line for any major hardware,

Mikkel Boedker decent player with 3 years of development on Couturier, Seans numbers trajectory are almost identical while playing sound defence,

Zach Hamill played on 4 AHL teams, 1 KHL and is now in Sweden picked between Voracek and Couture - think the Bruins want a do-over on that one?

Peter Mueller 26 and playing in the Swiss league,

Devon Setoguchi on his 5th NHL team has zero points this year,

Alexander Picard bust

Braydon Coburn you know,

Pierre Marc Bouchard decent NHL career already over

Pascal leclaire meh goalie,

Nikita Alexsev bust,

Taylor Pyatt

,Mark Bell

Sergei Samsonov

still trying to find a better player than a Selke candidate

another bust,

then another,

then another...

.ahhh 1990 Derian Hatcher well that was easy. 

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ruxpin Grand Master

ruxpin

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he reason for my question, though, was to see if foot speed really is such a limiting factor, especially for Selke-type players who are expected to have an offensive side to their game as well.

 

That's a fair question, I think.

 

To both you and @flyercanuck , I guess I'm a bit preoccupied with attempting to address icehole's objections but these other things are fair issues, I think.

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brelic Newbie

brelic

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I listed every player taken at #8 going back 25 years somewhere around here. None of them are really superstars or anything. Derian hatcher might be the best pick of the bunch. And Couturier has a long career ahead of him to be better than that.

 

I was asking more about foot speed. Doesn't need to be a #8... just someone highly drafted, high expectations, great defensive game, but with slow foot speed. Basically, like Couturier. Has that been a limiting factor (to a strong offensive game) for a player of similar skills and abilities?

 

I can't really think of a player like that right now.

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idahophilly Newbie

idahophilly

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this is turning into the proverbial dead horse...

 

I'm just curious how long it will take for the thread to cave in upon it's own weight and die. Neither side is gonna prove their point to the other regardless of facts. We are going back so many years now and the game wasn't even the same then.

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murraycraven Newbie

murraycraven

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I'm just curious how long it will take for the thread to cave in upon it's own weight and die. Neither side is gonna prove their point to the other regardless of facts. We are going back so many years now and the game wasn't even the same then.

 

 

i hear ya idaho...

 

like I said earlier there is no way icehole will change his mind.  I am expecting great things from this thread!  LOL

 

 

Cant help it with this one...every single time I see the name I think of Roman Maroney in Jonny Dangerously:

 

Roman Moroni: You fargin sneaky bastage. I'm gonna take your dwork. I'm gonna nail it to the wall. I'm gonna crush your boils in a meat grinder. I'm gonna cut off your arms. I'm gonna shove 'em up your icehole. Dirty son-a-ma-batches!

 

 

15376891_400x400.jpg

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icehole Contributor

icehole

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@OccamsRazor

I'm obsessed one way about him because everyone else is obsessed the other way with him.  I don't know if he's going to be good or not but it seems like people are penciling him in for the Selke.  To me his talent looks like a third line center at best.  If you told me 3.5 years ago that the flyers picked up this guy from another team who would probably be their third line center, I would be on my way.

The fact that he was a high draft pick, Pierre, Enzo, Doc, JJ Coatsey, Bundy, Morganti, and Boruk can't stop gushing about him, and I get killed on here because I think he isn't that great, that all makes me expect a little more from him.

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murraycraven Newbie

murraycraven

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everyone else is obsessed the other way with him.

 

put this into perspective:  YOU are the one creating all the threads/posts about him.  Nobody is claiming the kid is the next Ron Francis or Kopitar... all we are saying is the kid is 21 f'ing years old and is already a near-elite defensive forward.   That is it...   you dont trade away a player that was drafted #8, has been in the league 3 years, plays the toughest minutes on the club and has put up points at every level of his hockey career.   He is 21 dude and carrying two linemates that are horrible right now.... he is not a finished product.  

 

DEVELOPMENT is not a bad thing...   would you rather have JvR on the wing w/ G and Jake right now or Luke Schenn who is a heatlhy scratch?  

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icehole Contributor

icehole

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Some of you are seeing what I'm getting at.  I'm not just talking about foot speed either.  Toughness and a good shot are missing from his game.  Out of all the players mentioned as great shut-down forwards, how many are missing speed, toughness, and a good shot.  A good shot has nothing to do with being "shut-down" but it would be nice to get more offense from him right?

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Podein25 Proficient

Podein25

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put this into perspective:  YOU are the one creating all the threads/posts about him.  Nobody is claiming the kid is the next Ron Francis or Kopitar... all we are saying is the kid is 21 f'ing years old and is already a near-elite defensive forward.   That is it...   you dont trade away a player that was drafted #8, has been in the league 3 years, plays the toughest minutes on the club and has put up points at every level of his hockey career.   He is 21 dude and carrying two linemates that are horrible right now.... he is not a finished product.  

 

DEVELOPMENT is not a bad thing...   would you rather have JvR on the wing w/ G and Jake right now or Luke Schenn who is a heatlhy scratch?

 

 

After trying logic, reason, stats (!), observation, argument etc you had to resort to pleading. I'm doubtful it will work but you are commended for your efforts.

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pilldoc Grand Master

pilldoc

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Some of you are seeing what I'm getting at.  I'm not just talking about foot speed either.  Toughness and a good shot are missing from his game.  Out of all the players mentioned as great shut-down forwards, how many are missing speed, toughness, and a good shot.  A good shot has nothing to do with being "shut-down" but it would be nice to get more offense from him right?

 

good god...you are more stubborn than a damm mule.  you just always have another but..but...but.... Damm it are you listening / reading to what anyone is saying / typing.    I don't think so.  you are choosing what you want to read.  You want to go round and round and round with this topic.  Have you not read anything here.  The majority who have responded to you have all said the same thing...HE IS STILL DEVELOPING!!! 

 

Hopefully within a year or two when Hexy can dump the garbage from this team and Coots LEGITAMITE linemates, then maybe, just maybe the coaching staff will allow him to contribute more offensively.  Right now they can't do that because to be point blank our defense SUCKS!  They need him to help out defensively as much as possible.

 

You are beating this topic like a dead horse.  I have said my peace.  If you choose to accept anything anyone of us has said or nothing at all, that is your choice, but I'm done.  This topic and obsession of yours is just not worth my time anymore. 

 

thank you.

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