Hextall rips Flyers after loss

[radoran]

that style requires players to ****** compete everywhere on the ice and make a read where the puck is going on the forecheck.

 

Thank you!  I'm impressed you were able to decipher the "system" to this extent.

 

Because, unfortunately, that video looks almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea what they've been doing on the ice.

 

These idiots have had a years worth of playing chief's style , and if they're getting jerked around the line up i can see where ," oh crap i'm on the wing, now what ?" comes into play,however there are guys that are playing in their regular slots and they are not meeting their responsibilities. If guys are watching the opponent when they should be checking their man of course it's going to look like "nothing" .

 

And the full training camp... And the recent five days of intensive practice time... And they still look like crap.

 

I'm not at all saying "Berube is the problem" - there are obviously others, and probably ones with bigger impact (*cough* VLC *cough*).  I do agree that changing the captain of the ship and rearranging the deck chairs isn't going to save a Titanic.

 

But at what point does the coach really hold them accountable?

 

May have started with VLC's under 11 minutes of ice time last night. Let's see how it goes from here.

[ruxpin]

The man has been coach for one, that's right, one calendar year and we're already talking about firing him. If that in of itself wasn't completely and utterly absurd, we were actually having this conversation LAST SEASON. He hasn't even had the opportunity to fail. For Christ's f-cking sake, THEY MADE THE PO LAST YEAR! The next time you (please understand this really is not directed at you alone) or anyone else complains about the old man's philosophy, you remember this conversation. He's not the only impatient one here and I'd argue that a part of (I am aware he's insane and impatient and takes some of the blame) the reason for his irrational behavior is because you have a fanbase who say things like this or trade G or Schenn (two things I've seen just in the last week). Because talking about firing a guy who made the PO in his first season, is less than a quarter season into his second, and doesn't have the personnel (something just about everyone here has admitted) is beyond premature. I'm not even a fan of the guy, but this is a stupid f-cking conversation to have at this stage in the game and I am absolutely tired of fans complaining about management's approach, but enabling it at the same time.

 

First of all, no offense taken.  I've "known" you for a REALLY long time and thoroughly enjoy you as a poster and internet friend.   So, say what you want to me and I take it in context of whatever we're discussing.  No harm, no foul.

 

Second, I actually agree with what you said above in general.  I've been pretty much in the "be patient" crowd as it pertains to Berube (again, you've known me a long time, so you Ruxpin McGrumpy Pants is not known for patience!).  

 

I'm not advocating firing him now.  I don't think there is anything productive that will come of that.  This team frankly stinks to high heaven and a coaching change now might bring the short-term bounce that a coaching change often does, but it will only serve to mask the problems just long enough for management to suffer the delusion that everything is magically right.

 

But here's the rub, Fanatic.  I was not a fan of Berube being elevated to head coach to begin with.  I was as upset to hear of his hiring as I was the day Stevens was hired.  (Barber I was wrong on.)

 

Yes, he took the team to the playoffs after it started out as a hot mess.  So he's not a total loss.  But I see things that make me very concerned about the coaching.  Maybe it's just incredibly stupid players (I'll actually buy that).  But the Florida and NYR games aside, it's not simply lack of effort I'm seeing.  In fact, I see effort.  I just see utter stupidity.  If you haven't noticed previously and want to suffer through watching this abortion, when you watch the next game watch them in the defensive zone.  Invariably, ALL five Flyers are on the side of the ice where the puck is.  Literally all of them.  And very bunched together.  I don't know if you've ever seen an elementary school soccer game where all players on the field are clumped together around the ball, but that's what the Flyers look like.  The problem is the opponent doesn't clump so there's one if not two opposing players waiting for the pass across the ice.  It's so repetitive and so consistent I have to wonder:  are they being coached to do this?  If so, that's just utterly retarded.  Or are they being coached to do something else and the entire team is ignoring it?  If that's the case, then I wonder if he's lost the room (sorry, I hate that cliche almost as much as you do).  OR, are they not really being coached at all and they're all out there improvising and too stupid to do it well? (my guess).

 

In the offensive end there are scrums that are 1 v. 1 or 2 v. 2 and there's a Flyer just standing there 10 feet away doing nothing in particular.  Not in a scoring position waiting for the pass.  Just standing there.  I don't know if there's a pretty girl just behind the glass (or an in-uniform cop in Giroux's case) or what.  But you'd think the extra Flyer would go and create an overload (hell, they do it in the defensive end!).  Again, same questions as above.  The problem for me is that the behavior is opposite in the O-end and the D-end and in both cases the wrong thing.  So to me it's either coaching the wrong thing or not coaching at all.

 

It's the Stevens/Barber "just play harder!"

 

So...this is clearly not all on the coach.  At all.  We've talked about veteran leadership (Pronger, Timonen, Hartnell.  Getting a "Guerin type").  I agree completely.   We have players that have some ability that just aren't dialed in (Matt Read, for example).  We have players that just don't have the ability (most of the defense) or don't fit or stink (VLC, Umberger).    It's not all on the coach.  It's dumb personnel decisions by management and dumb personnel.

 

Give Berube the season and maybe something clicks.  But they need to figure out a way to overhaul this roster by next season and bring along some of the prospects (who knows if THEY work out!).  Starting that process with a new coach who is hand picked by the new GM--assuming Hextall wasn't involved in Berube's selection--wouldn't be a bad idea if they are able to make significant changes to the roster.   If they don't make those roster changes, then it doesn't really matter if Berube stays or goes.

[ruxpin]

Completely agreed. However we simply don't have enough to call it a bad decision let alone assign all of the blame to one guy.

 

I know. You've said it a few times, have explained what you mean, and I completely understand it. I also happen to agree.

 

I would not lose any sleep over that if it were to happen, but I can tell you right now if that's the only move they make, it changes nothing. They have personnel needs. They're simply not good enough to compete. If they fire the coach, and do nothing else, it doesn't matter who else they bring in. This team needs leadership and by leadership, I mean players, not the guy who sits behind the bench.

 

Completely agree with this, and the post by @radoran you responded to.

[briere48]

First of all, no offense taken.  I've "known" you for a REALLY long time and thoroughly enjoy you as a poster and internet friend.   So, say what you want to me and I take it in context of whatever we're discussing.  No harm, no foul.

 

Second, I actually agree with what you said above in general.  I've been pretty much in the "be patient" crowd as it pertains to Berube (again, you've known me a long time, so you Ruxpin McGrumpy Pants is not known for patience!).  

 

I'm not advocating firing him now.  I don't think there is anything productive that will come of that.  This team frankly stinks to high heaven and a coaching change now might bring the short-term bounce that a coaching change often does, but it will only serve to mask the problems just long enough for management to suffer the delusion that everything is magically right.

 

But here's the rub, Fanatic.  I was not a fan of Berube being elevated to head coach to begin with.  I was as upset to hear of his hiring as I was the day Stevens was hired.  (Barber I was wrong on.)

 

Yes, he took the team to the playoffs after it started out as a hot mess.  So he's not a total loss.  But I see things that make me very concerned about the coaching.  Maybe it's just incredibly stupid players (I'll actually buy that).  But the Florida and NYR games aside, it's not simply lack of effort I'm seeing.  In fact, I see effort.  I just see utter stupidity.  If you haven't noticed previously and want to suffer through watching this abortion, when you watch the next game watch them in the defensive zone.  Invariably, ALL five Flyers are on the side of the ice where the puck is.  Literally all of them.  And very bunched together.  I don't know if you've ever seen an elementary school soccer game where all players on the field are clumped together around the ball, but that's what the Flyers look like.  The problem is the opponent doesn't clump so there's one if not two opposing players waiting for the pass across the ice.  It's so repetitive and so consistent I have to wonder:  are they being coached to do this?  If so, that's just utterly retarded.  Or are they being coached to do something else and the entire team is ignoring it?  If that's the case, then I wonder if he's lost the room (sorry, I hate that cliche almost as much as you do).  OR, are they not really being coached at all and they're all out there improvising and too stupid to do it well? (my guess).

 

In the offensive end there are scrums that are 1 v. 1 or 2 v. 2 and there's a Flyer just standing there 10 feet away doing nothing in particular.  Not in a scoring position waiting for the pass.  Just standing there.  I don't know if there's a pretty girl just behind the glass (or an in-uniform cop in Giroux's case) or what.  But you'd think the extra Flyer would go and create an overload (hell, they do it in the defensive end!).  Again, same questions as above.  The problem for me is that the behavior is opposite in the O-end and the D-end and in both cases the wrong thing.  So to me it's either coaching the wrong thing or not coaching at all.

 

It's the Stevens/Barber "just play harder!"

 

So...this is clearly not all on the coach.  At all.  We've talked about veteran leadership (Pronger, Timonen, Hartnell.  Getting a "Guerin type").  I agree completely.   We have players that have some ability that just aren't dialed in (Matt Read, for example).  We have players that just don't have the ability (most of the defense) or don't fit or stink (VLC, Umberger).    It's not all on the coach.  It's dumb personnel decisions by management and dumb personnel.

 

Give Berube the season and maybe something clicks.  But they need to figure out a way to overhaul this roster by next season and bring along some of the prospects (who knows if THEY work out!).  Starting that process with a new coach who is hand picked by the new GM--assuming Hextall wasn't involved in Berube's selection--wouldn't be a bad idea if they are able to make significant changes to the roster.   If they don't make those roster changes, then it doesn't really matter if Berube stays or goes.

 

you are right, im thinking if hexy decides to change coaches it will be in the offseason because that way when he brings in the new coach, he can adjust the roster to fit the coaches style of play and hopefully the gm and the coach can be on the same page. Meaning hexy can give coach the players he wants to coach with.

[fanaticV3.0]

I agree with the general concept. My only comment is a good, talented coach *can* often turn things around with just about the same personnel. The history knows many examples of that. Look at LA. The team struggling under Terry Murray... and I actually like Terry Murray, but clearly whatever he was doing was not working. When they fired him in December of 2011 and hired Darry Sutter, the team has not only transformed, but it transformed dramatically, going from the team who most likely would NOT make the playoffs that year to the one who ended up winning the Stanley Cup. And because that move was in the middle of the season, and not off-season, there was no time to upgrade the roster, so Sutter did it with the same exact roster.

 

Larry Robinson was hired in the spring of 2000 to replace Robbie Ftorek when the Devils were struggling badly and the team ended up winning the Cup that year.

 

And if I really had time, I am sure I would dig out more examples to support the notion that yes, you still need players (no two ways about it), but a good coach alone CAN make that huge of a difference.

 

Again, I agree that this team is not good enough to content.  Hell, this team is not even good enough to make the playoffs if you ask me.

With that said, I do agree with Rad that I just don’t see anything in Berube that would give me even a hint that he has what it takes to be a good coach.

 

I don't really see anything in him either to be completely honest, but the guy simply hasn't had time to do anything.

 

They should be a PO team. Not a contender, but a PO team. They made it last year and several players are playing even  better since then - some are even playing at the legendary "another level", but they are a worse team for some reason. I keep saying it, but their biggest problem is lack of veteran leadership. G is one of the best players in the league, but he's not a leader. He needs to be one of those "just play" guys.

[fanaticV3.0]

Completely agree with this, and the post by @radoran you responded to.

 

Wait, no. That can't be right. Too much agreeing going on here. Brain..not....know...how to compute this.

 

As for the novel you wrote, not only have I seen a kids soccer game, I've been one of those kids! It's like watching a swarm of insects chase one unlucky guy or gal. It's actually really funny if you're watching it.

 

Kids do that because they're kids. They don't even comprehend what it is they are doing. That's why they need to be told what to do. Paid professionals should not have to be told what to do. That does not mean they don't need systems or that some coaches aren't better than others. But they know what they're supposed to do and when they don't do it, it's because they choose not to.

 

They gotta give the guy something to work with before they pull the plug on him, because if they simply fire him and that's all they do, the only thing that's going to happen is exactly what happened when he got the job. They go on a minor tear, everyone thinks everything is better, and we're having this same conversation in 2016.

 

Now what can they do? That's the sticky wicket. Unless they can shed some salary, there's not much they can do. One thing that can happen is Laughton's status. I haven't paid much attention this week, but I hear he looks like he belongs. If that's the case, I give him an extended look. If he belongs here, so be it. If he isn't doing much, just send him back down and let him get more experience.

 

Internet friends? Well that's just about the nicest thing somebody has said to me all week.

[ruxpin]

Internet friends? Well that's just about the nicest thing somebody has said to me all week.

 

You may have spelled "gayest" wrong. 

 

 

As for the rest, ("if they simply fire him and that's all they do, the only thing that's going to happen is exactly what happened when he got the job. They go on a minor tear, everyone thinks everything is better, and we're having this same conversation in 2016") yeah, I think we're pretty much on the same page on this one.  

[briere48]

I don't really see anything in him either to be completely honest, but the guy simply hasn't had time to do anything.

 

They should be a PO team. Not a contender, but a PO team. They made it last year and several players are playing even  better since then - some are even playing at the legendary "another level", but they are a worse team for some reason. I keep saying it, but their biggest problem is lack of veteran leadership. G is one of the best players in the league, but he's not a leader. He needs to be one of those "just play" guys.

 

they barely made it in, it's telling us how bad this team is when they couldnt compete against the rangers in the playoffs, i mean if they were playing very consistent then i would say this team had a chance to compete but this team was very inconsistent in before they made it into the playoffs mason or no mason.

[fanaticV3.0]

You may have spelled "gayest" wrong. 

 

 

As for the rest, ("if they simply fire him and that's all they do, the only thing that's going to happen is exactly what happened when he got the job. They go on a minor tear, everyone thinks everything is better, and we're having this same conversation in 2016") yeah, I think we're pretty much on the same page on this one.  

 

That is hilarious. What a great way to start the day. Too funny man.

[fanaticV3.0]

they barely made it in, it's telling us how bad this team is when they couldnt compete against the rangers in the playoffs, i mean if they were playing very consistent then i would say this team had a chance to compete but this team was very inconsistent in before they made it into the playoffs mason or no mason.

 

You know who barely made it into the PO? The 09-10 team. Not only were they exactly .500, they didn't secure a PO spot until the last day of the regular season. They were tied with Montreal all for least amount of points by a PO team (in the whole league) with 88. Last year's squad had more wins, more points, and made it into the PO by a safer margin than the 09-10 team.

 

I don't think they "have a chance to compete" this year. I think they should be better, not worse, than last year, but they are not a threat to compete. I think they should even make the PO, not that it means they will, but that doesn't make them a real threat.