Hextall rips Flyers after loss

[murraycraven]

poeple used that same argument when Carcillo was here

[intheslot]

G is the only one who could be traded and you were right  "he doesn't know what to do with the puck" king knut..

  He is the captain nobody wants anyone else on the team .

[murraycraven]

G is the only one who could be traded and you were right  "he doesn't know what to do with the puck" king knut..

  He is the captain nobody wants anyone else on the team .

the only person that seems to know what to do with the puck is Jake and that is not from the system.   That is his pure skating ability and skill taking over...

 

what is "he is the captain nobody wants anyone else on the team" mean?  

[intheslot]

VLC  and Rj are not going to go any where Coots might, so that leaves  G...

  I like G but something has to be done .

[murraycraven]

VLC  and Rj are not going to go any where Coots might, so that leaves  G...

  I like G but something has to be done .

 

G has a NMC starting next year so I dont see him going anywhere.  Unless they pull a Richards/Carter.

 

Buy RJ and VLC out and absorb the cap hit... not sure why we would trade a Hart Trophy finalist.

[briere48]

VLC  and Rj are not going to go any where Coots might, so that leaves  G...

  I like G but something has to be done .

 

and his big contract which i dont like either, that has to be moved.

[mojo1917]

poeple used that same argument when Carcillo was here

I rest my case then !

[murraycraven]

@mojo1917.... just having fun!

[mojo1917]

@murraycraven

 

oh me too, other than the Flyers being my favorite team i have no figurative or literal skin in the game so to speak.  

that loss was disheartening , but i also feel howling that Hextall should be blowing everything up and firing everyone and trading the rest doesn't mean boo to a bee.

[ruxpin]

I don't follow all that off-the-ice stuff. That's why I come here. Smart guys like you do it for me. What exactly are the rules about buying someone out? I agree they should do it with Umberger (he looks like he is 70), but if it's an option why haven't they done it with someone like say VLC yet?

Your comment about Berube bothers me for the same reasons the firing of Barber and Stevens bothered me. Even if the coach in question is not a great coach, when was the last time firing said coach actually did anything? What's it get us? Aa hot streak at the beginning of the next coach's time here?

Stevens and Barber didn't bother me but I support your point in general.

The problem, frankly, in those two cases and in the case of Berube is the failure of the organization to hire properly to begin with.

None of those three had the slightest hope, out of the gate, of being successful as an NHL head coach.

All three are simply "play harder" type people with no observable plan of what to do. When I watch the Flyers in the defensive zone have all five players clumped together on one side of the ice like a bunch of six year old AYSO soccer players... They are working hard but they are working stupid.

The VLC sucks standing in the opposite corner picking his ass, as was mentioned above, is not limited to VLC sucks. It's endemic. It's not just lazy. It's about stupid players attempting to improvise in the absence of direction.

And this was the case with Barber, Stevens, and now Berube.

In all three cases, it was the result of negligent hiring by promoting the good little foot soldier whose turn it was but was predictably not remotely constitutionally equipped to coach an NHL team.

Having said that, Berube is also handicapped by the brain dead construction of the team. Hitchcock, who was clearly a good coach, and Lavy who was a step down from Hitch (IMO) but was still good in his own right also both paid the price for an absurdly constructed team. So even good coaches struggle with dog crap, I don't care what the system or the coach's hockey IQ.

But we are where we are again because of criminally negligent filling of the head coach position and the continued bumblefukcery of putting a team together.

Berube needs to go, but he needs to finish the season. As painful as it will be to watch, there's nothing to be gained by changing coaches if you're still going to have this group of players.

Fire Berube the day after the season ends. Buyout Umberger and poison VLC sucks' corn flakes. Bring the kids up next year and start with an actual hockey coach (no Dave Brown or Riley Cote).

A Geurin type (or two) would be nice but you have to at least start with this.

And while we're making a to-do last, let's add "someone tell Matt Read the summer is over" to it.

/rant

[Howie58]

It's funny, earlier this year I said Thanksgiving might be the time we get a read on this outfit. Well, perhaps we aren't real happy. I witnessed the game in Florida and was almost ashamed to be wearing the O and B at the BB&T.  Last night I wondered what was going on inside of Mason's head...and that was before he was clipped in the nagen. I am up for Thanksgiving next week and will go to the Black Friday game.  I am hoping my Turkey Day assessment won't be too gloomy.

 

Some corporate responsibility types and raiders don't like executive pay in American corporations because it doesn't align with with performance.  Boy...our team would really set those folks' posteriors on fire.  Our steadiest Dmen are at the low side of pay.  VLC...Umby...OMG.  

 

I guess we have to give Hextall 2-3 years to "refurbish" the unit.  Sadly, I think continued losing and/or lack of effort may cost Berube his job.  But I don't think Berube is the problem.  When this team grows a group of youngins together, we will see a solid foundation.  

 

Keep the faith.  That is about all we can do....

 

Best,

 

Howie

[King Knut]

Giroux and Coots are virtually untouchable in my book.

VLC and Rj are not going to go any where Coots might, so that leaves G...

I like G but something has to be done .

[fan4ever]

@ruxpin

 

"bumblefukcery"

 

The perfect description.  I love it!

[fanaticV3.0]

My guess is Hextall will bring in his own coach when he's got the right pieces in place. Until then, there's no reason not to stick with Berube.

 

Isn't this pretty much what many of us expected? An up and down team that would end up on the playoff bubble? THey'll have stretches where they look great, and stretches where they look awful and a bunch of mediocrity in between.

 

The key for me is seeing growth in the individuals and in the team.

 

I definitely see it in individuals - Voracek, Raffl, Giroux, BSchenn, Rinaldo, Del Zotto, Couturier, Mason (despite a 3-6-1 record due mostly to the team in front of him, he's sporting a .914).

 

That's the core of this team. And I see progress in their individual games.

 

When Hexy has the right pieces in place (i.e. moved the bad contracts/deadweight, has a few defensemen and forwards up from the farm, has a few wily vets), he'll bring in a better coach.

 

They're not "not winning" because of the coach though. I completely agree with you about that is the core (Simmonds has to be on that list) and you do see progress in their play. The proof is in the pudding (their stats) as they say. But they don't play as a unit, don't have enough talent, and don't have enough experience. If they fired Berube right now and hire another coach, without improving personnel, nothing changes. I know you said once Hextall "gets the right pieces in place", but I'm sorry how do say Berube is the wrong guy after admitting he doesn't have the players? We're a little too eager to fire coaches in this town and I ain't just talking about management. Fans are just as guilty and I'd even argue that some of the old man's decisions are driven, in part, because the fans are as impatient as he is.

[fanaticV3.0]

VLC  and Rj are not going to go any where Coots might, so that leaves  G...

  I like G but something has to be done .

 

You don't do something just for the sake of it. You do something that benefits your team. Trading G does not benefit the team.

[brelic]

I completely agree with you about that is the core (Simmonds has to be on that list) and you do see progress in their play.

 

Oops, forgot Simmonds. Yes, he is absolutely part of the core.

 

 

 

If they fired Berube right now and hire another coach, without improving personnel, nothing changes. I know you said once Hextall "gets the right pieces in place", but I'm sorry how do say Berube is the wrong guy after admitting he doesn't have the players?

 

That's fair, but I didn't say Berube was the "wrong guy". Only that I wouldn't be surprised to see Hexy bring in his own coach to accomplish his vision, whoever that might be.

 

I see all the problems that people are talking about, but I don't see them as 'problems' so much as growing pains due to age, inexperience, and the absence of one or two really influential calming veterans.

[fanaticV3.0]

Stevens and Barber didn't bother me but I support your point in general.

The problem, frankly, in those two cases and in the case of Berube is the failure of the organization to hire properly to begin with.

None of those three had the slightest hope, out of the gate, of being successful as an NHL head coach.

All three are simply "play harder" type people with no observable plan of what to do. When I watch the Flyers in the defensive zone have all five players clumped together on one side of the ice like a bunch of six year old AYSO soccer players... They are working hard but they are working stupid.

The VLC sucks standing in the opposite corner picking his ass, as was mentioned above, is not limited to VLC sucks. It's endemic. It's not just lazy. It's about stupid players attempting to improvise in the absence of direction.

And this was the case with Barber, Stevens, and now Berube.

In all three cases, it was the result of negligent hiring by promoting the good little foot soldier whose turn it was but was predictably not remotely constitutionally equipped to coach an NHL team.

Having said that, Berube is also handicapped by the brain dead construction of the team. Hitchcock, who was clearly a good coach, and Lavy who was a step down from Hitch (IMO) but was still good in his own right also both paid the price for an absurdly constructed team. So even good coaches struggle with dog crap, I don't care what the system or the coach's hockey IQ.

But we are where we are again because of criminally negligent filling of the head coach position and the continued bumblefukcery of putting a team together.

Berube needs to go, but he needs to finish the season. As painful as it will be to watch, there's nothing to be gained by changing coaches if you're still going to have this group of players.

Fire Berube the day after the season ends. Buyout Umberger and poison VLC sucks' corn flakes. Bring the kids up next year and start with an actual hockey coach (no Dave Brown or Riley Cote).

A Geurin type (or two) would be nice but you have to at least start with this.

And while we're making a to-do last, let's add "someone tell Matt Read the summer is over" to it.

/rant

 

The man has been coach for one, that's right, one calendar year and we're already talking about firing him. If that in of itself wasn't completely and utterly absurd, we were actually having this conversation LAST SEASON. He hasn't even had the opportunity to fail. For Christ's f-cking sake, THEY MADE THE PO LAST YEAR! The next time you (please understand this really is not directed at you alone) or anyone else complains about the old man's philosophy, you remember this conversation. He's not the only impatient one here and I'd argue that a part of (I am aware he's insane and impatient and takes some of the blame) the reason for his irrational behavior is because you have a fanbase who say things like this or trade G or Schenn (two things I've seen just in the last week). Because talking about firing a guy who made the PO in his first season, is less than a quarter season into his second, and doesn't have the personnel (something just about everyone here has admitted) is beyond premature. I'm not even a fan of the guy, but this is a stupid f-cking conversation to have at this stage in the game and I am absolutely tired of fans complaining about management's approach, but enabling it at the same time.

[fanaticV3.0]

Oops, forgot Simmonds. Yes, he is absolutely part of the core.

 

 

 

 

That's fair, but I didn't say Berube was the "wrong guy". Only that I wouldn't be surprised to see Hexy bring in his own coach to accomplish his vision, whoever that might be.

 

I see all the problems that people are talking about, but I don't see them as 'problems' so much as growing pains due to age, inexperience, and the absence of one or two really influential calming veterans.

 

Understood. Like you, I see the problems. We all see the problems. But as you are about to see in my rant (that isn't really meant to be directed at rux alone and for that I apologize to him) I cannot believe we're having this conversation this soon into his time here. Like you, I think the problems could be attributed to normal growing pains. It's simply too soon to tell if he's a failure yet.

[brelic]

I cannot believe we're having this conversation this soon into his time here.

 

Oh, I can totally believe it!

 

That's what we do as fans... we tend to look at the micro level and analyse it to death. I mean, sure, we all have an idea of the bigger picture, but when I watch a game on a Wednesday night, and the team looks like utter garbage, as a fan I often want the whole team traded out of spite! I want them to WIN on Wednesday night for my own selfish pleasure, not in 2017. (I mean, I want that TOO, but I don't want to waste my time or bandwidth watching something that gives me no value).

 

So, it's ok if the fanbase gets upset - that's what makes them passionate! The problem is when ownership becomes emotional. That only leads to stupid decisions.

 

Bryzgalov (anger and frustration), VLC (giddy over latest toy to spend money on), MacDonald (impatience), Streit (shininess). And this is just in the last two years!

 

Of all those, only Streit has proven to be a worthwhile acquisition.

 

A 25% success rate in the Flyers organization gets you promoted, apparently.

[fanaticV3.0]

Oh, I can totally believe it!

 

That's what we do as fans... we tend to look at the micro level and analyse it to death. I mean, sure, we all have an idea of the bigger picture, but when I watch a game on a Wednesday night, and the team looks like utter garbage, as a fan I often want the whole team traded out of spite! I want them to WIN on Wednesday night for my own selfish pleasure, not in 2017. (I mean, I want that TOO, but I don't want to waste my time or bandwidth watching something that gives me no value).

 

So, it's ok if the fanbase gets upset - that's what makes them passionate! The problem is when ownership becomes emotional. That only leads to stupid decisions.

 

Bryzgalov (anger and frustration), VLC (giddy over latest toy to spend money on), MacDonald (impatience), Streit (shininess). And this is just in the last two years!

 

Of all those, only Streit has proven to be a worthwhile acquisition.

 

A 25% success rate in the Flyers organization gets you promoted, apparently.

 

I can believe it, but only because of my total lack of faith in humanity. People are stupid and act irrationally. But for some reason, it still baffles me as how people can be that stupid no matter how many times I see it. You can't criticize a behavior when management does it and then turn around and do the same thing. When you do that, you have no credibility. But alas, that is the way of the "fan" in sports.

[radoran]

I can believe it, but only because of my total lack of faith in humanity. People are stupid and act irrationally. But for some reason, it still baffles me as how people can be that stupid no matter how many times I see it. You can't criticize a behavior when management does it and then turn around and do the same thing. When you do that, you have no credibility. But alas, that is the way of the "fan" in sports.

 

I can generally agree with the sentiment and do believe that some people are as you describe.

 

However, it's not at all irrational to recognize a problem and decide to make a change if one concludes that the original decision was a bad one.

 

I give you Wayne Cashman.

 

For the record, I'm not on the "fire Berube" bandwagon at the moment. I am asking if there is any discernable system/strategy being employed by the team.

 

Because I haven't really seen one on television and I didn't really see one last night in person.

 

If the team continues to be listless and drifting at the end of the season, then I don't think it is at all irrational to evaluate the coach.

[fanaticV3.0]

I can generally agree with the sentiment and do believe that some people are as you describe.

 

However, it's not at all irrational to recognize a problem and decide to make a change if one concludes that the original decision was a bad one.

 

I give you Wayne Cashman.

 

For the record, I'm not on the "fire Berube" bandwagon at the moment. I am asking if there is any discernable system/strategy being employed by the team.

 

Because I haven't really seen one on television and I didn't really see one last night in person.

 

If the team continues to be listless and drifting at the end of the season, then I don't think it is at all irrational to evaluate the coach.

 

Completely agreed. However we simply don't have enough to call it a bad decision let alone assign all of the blame to one guy.

 

I know. You've said it a few times, have explained what you mean, and I completely understand it. I also happen to agree.

 

I would not lose any sleep over that if it were to happen, but I can tell you right now if that's the only move they make, it changes nothing. They have personnel needs. They're simply not good enough to compete. If they fire the coach, and do nothing else, it doesn't matter who else they bring in. This team needs leadership and by leadership, I mean players, not the guy who sits behind the bench.

[Bakanekimiwa]

I can generally agree with the sentiment and do believe that some people are as you describe.

 

However, it's not at all irrational to recognize a problem and decide to make a change if one concludes that the original decision was a bad one.

 

I give you Wayne Cashman.

 

For the record, I'm not on the "fire Berube" bandwagon at the moment. I am asking if there is any discernable system/strategy being employed by the team.

 

Because I haven't really seen one on television and I didn't really see one last night in person.

 

If the team continues to be listless and drifting at the end of the season, then I don't think it is at all irrational to evaluate the coach.

 

I think it's completely valid to question a coach who's tactics and moves are not producing winning results. Is it too early to fire Berube? probably so. As many have said, he's been dealt a crap hand to play with. However, you can play that crap hand in different ways. Berube seems to be tinkering endlessly and indecisively. This does not instill confidence, to me, in a 'system' or coherent narrative for the team to hold onto. 

 

In other words, the only consistent message from the coaching group seems to be 'skate harder', 'compete more'. Playing players out of their natural positions and placing certain players into roles they don't fit are very perplexing, but more importantly... they're simply not working. So yeah... I think it's totally up for discussion and not in the least bit crazy or typically Philly knee-jerking. 

[Mad Dog]

Completely agreed. However we simply don't have enough to call it a bad decision let alone assign all of the blame to one guy.

 

I know. You've said it a few times, have explained what you mean, and I completely understand it. I also happen to agree.

 

I would not lose any sleep over that if it were to happen, but I can tell you right now if that's the only move they make, it changes nothing. They have personnel needs. They're simply not good enough to compete. If they fire the coach, and do nothing else, it doesn't matter who else they bring in. This team needs leadership and by leadership, I mean players, not the guy who sits behind the bench.

 

I agree with the general concept. My only comment is a good, talented coach *can* often turn things around with just about the same personnel. The history knows many examples of that. Look at LA. The team struggling under Terry Murray... and I actually like Terry Murray, but clearly whatever he was doing was not working. When they fired him in December of 2011 and hired Darry Sutter, the team has not only transformed, but it transformed dramatically, going from the team who most likely would NOT make the playoffs that year to the one who ended up winning the Stanley Cup. And because that move was in the middle of the season, and not off-season, there was no time to upgrade the roster, so Sutter did it with the same exact roster.

 

Larry Robinson was hired in the spring of 2000 to replace Robbie Ftorek when the Devils were struggling badly and the team ended up winning the Cup that year.

 

And if I really had time, I am sure I would dig out more examples to support the notion that yes, you still need players (no two ways about it), but a good coach alone CAN make that huge of a difference.

 

Again, I agree that this team is not good enough to content.  Hell, this team is not even good enough to make the playoffs if you ask me.

With that said, I do agree with Rad that I just don’t see anything in Berube that would give me even a hint that he has what it takes to be a good coach.

[mojo1917]

they play a centerlock ,neutral zone pressure type scheme

 that style requires players to ******* compete everywhere on the ice and make a read where the puck is going on the forecheck.

 

These idiots have had a years worth of playing chief's style , and if they're getting jerked around the line up i can see where ," oh crap i'm on the wing, now what ?" comes into play,however there are guys that are playing in their regular slots and they are not meeting their responsibilities.  If guys are watching the opponent when they should be checking their man of course it's going to look like "nothing"  .  

 

the line up has been juggled because of injuries there have been too many line combos and d pairings but what can you do when 17 games in 3 of the teams defenseman have missed significant time.

 

Berube isn't the problem .