intheslot Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 They need to make a leadership change in the locker room. They should trade G and choose a captain who can lead . !!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 As much as it pains me to say this, the Pens won the Cup the year they fired Michelle Theirrien mid season and hired Bylsma. Granted that team was 2 games above .500 when they did it, but IIRC the team was trending downwards when it happened. I'm sure a Pens fan can clarify. So, yes, it CAN change things. Not saying it always does, however. yes..but that team also had players like Crosby, MAF, Malkin, Letang and Guerin in a leadership role among many others. This team comes no where close to that type of talent. Bylsma just brought them together better. However, I see your point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted November 20, 2014 Author Share Posted November 20, 2014 but there's one more contract that needs to be talked about - MacDonald. Horrible contract for a horrible period of time. No one is going to touch that deal with a 10 foot pole. That's going to be the toughest contract to get rid of. that has been brought up more times than i can count. That contract was a joke around the league when it was signed and will remain a joke for the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakanekimiwa Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 yes..but that team also had players like Crosby, MAR, Malkin, Letang and Guerin in a leadership role among many others. This team comes no where close to that type of talent. Bylsma just brought them together better. However, I see your point. Yeah.. can't forget that they were in the Stanley Cup finals the year before that. They were only a few tweaks away at that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 They need to make a leadership change in the locker room. They should trade G and choose a captain who can lead . !!!!!!!! Do you really want to open up this pandora's box again ?? ....... there was a very lively thread regarding this topic around this time last year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted November 20, 2014 Author Share Posted November 20, 2014 Do you really want to open up this pandora's box again ?? ....... there was a very lively thread regarding this topic around this time last year I really dont think a leadership change will do squat. G is not the problem and is having a good year. This is on Hexy's predecessor and the players in the locker room along w/ Chief "Scatter-system" Berube... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaGreatGazoo Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Yeah and we've done it how many times and it hasn't worked? The odds are very good that if the only big move they make in the next couple of weeks to a year is to fire Berube, nothing changes. Totally agree...I was speaking in general terms. Maybe having Hexy hiring the coach will be different. Okay...maybe not, but allow me my delusions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 I really dont think a leadership change will do squat. G is not the problem and is having a good year. This is on Hexy's predecessor and the players in the locker room along w/ Chief "Scatter-system" Berube... Exactly my point! Many want to think trading G will somehow magically solve the ills of this team and that thinking is completely illogical. Again every falls back on Homer and the lack of a system by Berube....the common theme here... ------> Homer screwed this team big time! It will take time to undo the mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaGreatGazoo Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Yeah, but Laviolette had a say in those player acquisitions. People might say that it's the coach's job to coach the team and a it's the GM's job to build the team, but don't think for one second that the coach doesn't have a say in what players a GM should go after. Not trying to pick a fight, or pick on you...but I specifically remember a Homer interview on CSN Philly TV where he was asked that exact question. His response was, " It's my job to pick the players and build a team, it's Lavy's job to coach them." I remember it very well, for the same reasons you mention. I was SHOCKED that a GM wouldn't talk to his coach regarding players. Maybe he wasn't being honest. If he was, says a lot about how dysfunctional the front office was/has been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted November 20, 2014 Author Share Posted November 20, 2014 Exactly my point! Many want to think trading G will somehow magically solve the ills of this team and that is completely false. Again every falls back on Homer and the lack of a system by Berube....the come theme here... ------> Homer screwe this team big time! It will take time to undo the mess. absolutely agree doc... not sure what changing the captain would achieve at this point. The fact of the matter is Hexy's hands are ties at the moment. That does not excuse the players from playing gutless hockey. For this Team to move forward they need to move RJ (this one is on Hexy), VLC and McDud. Those contracts are anchors to whatever the plan is moving forward. VLC and RJ are both a waste of roster spot and having them in the lineup is playing a game being 2/3rds short a line. I am coming into the idea that it might just be a tough road for the next year or two. Unless Hextall buys out RJ and/or VLC I dont see much that can happen that will point this team in the right direction for the future. Buying them out is tough as well if that cap actually decreases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 I am coming into the idea that it might just be a tough road for the next year or two. . I've already come to that conclusion...... Now don't get me wrong I bleed O&B and I love our team, however, l do realize that it will take some time to right this ship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted November 20, 2014 Author Share Posted November 20, 2014 I've already come to that conclusion...... Now don't get me wrong I bleed O&B and I love our team, however, l do realize that it will take some time to right this ship. yup yup... my only fear is the thought of "how much time" is this going to take... are we looking at this Team being good beyond G's prime? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briere48 Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Not trying to pick a fight, or pick on you...but I specifically remember a Homer interview on CSN Philly TV where he was asked that exact question. His response was, " It's my job to pick the players and build a team, it's Lavy's job to coach them." I remember it very well, for the same reasons you mention. I was SHOCKED that a GM wouldn't talk to his coach regarding players. Maybe he wasn't being honest. If he was, says a lot about how dysfunctional the front office was/has been.that's what im hoping with hextall, that he will get the players that the coach wants to fit with his system. i think that's been the problem for last 8 years and the reason why there's so many headcoaching changes because homer's refusal to work with the coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Anyone else seem to feel like no one's heart was in it?Like someone had kicked their puppy or their moms just died? Also weird that G wasn't supposed to play, Laughton got called up as a result, but G played and Laughton was still in the lineup? I don't know. Something smells fishy. Get ready for some trades, yo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 I don't agree that it NEEDS to take some time. I think this kind of thing gets fixed pretty quickly with the right personnel.But I've been watching this team long enough to know that the same thing happens regardless of who is on the bench, and often regardless of who is standing behind it. There's some larger issue going on and I don't know what it is. That said, Berube seems at a loss as to how to institute a system, what that system should be and how to get them to buy into it. Also, "Skate harder", "don't stop skating" and "keep playing hockey" are not systems. I've already come to that conclusion...... Now don't get me wrong I bleed O&B and I love our team, however, l do realize that it will take some time to right this ship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted November 20, 2014 Author Share Posted November 20, 2014 I think this kind of thing gets fixed pretty quickly with the right personnel. KK, while I agree with everything in your post how do you see this getting fixed quickly? This is by no means a shot but really just asking a question b/c I just don't know if that is the case or not. RJ and VLC can be bought out but you are still going to absorb a cap hit for those stiffs. Meanwhile the cap is mostly likely decreasing next year. Somehow, salary needs to be moved and the players that are making the big $ on this Team are all but unmovable. I dont see anyone in their right mind taking VLC and/or RJ. Likewise, I dont see anyone wanting to acquire McDud with his current deal. Jake, G, Simmonds, Schenn - out of the everyday roster they are the only untouchables right now. Everyone is fair game on the trade market IMO. Maybe Cooter is part of the young core that is on his way out? I am just spit balling here... I guess in the end the magic question is: How long is this really going to take? I see this as a 3-4 year process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindbergh31 Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 @ Murraycraven It's about time Hextall rips into these guys, to play that way against the Rangers is not acceptable. If the Flyers are on the outside looking in at the trade deadline, I hope Hextall is able to get rid of some of the vets for picks and start building the team his way. Hopefully Hexie can find a sucker for RJ but if not, buy him out this summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howie58 Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 My take is that a coaching change will have a temporary effect but our model of team building (trade versus draft) will "defeat" any coach over the long-term because whatever energy they bring will dissipate with the player complement's limited competence and "gelling." I concur that a change in a year or two will take place once we have the "new" team. Until then we will be mediocre at best. Defensive lapses aside, it's clear our offensive talent is limited to a few individuals. Giroux, Voracek, and one or two others can't carry everyone. If it weren't for Mason, last night's loss might have been 4 or 5-0. I wasn't expecting much this year so my disappointment level isn't great. The big problem is the difficulty I have watching. It isn't just the losing. It is very boring. Howie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samifan Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Next time Hexy goes in the room to call out the team he needs to grab Mason's stick and start delivering his famous two handers. He could start with VLC and Bumberger. Thank you sir,may I have another.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 1) I'm very sorry because I like the guy, but first and foremost is that Berube needs to be replaced by a modern thinking hockey coach. It would be one thing if Umberger or Coburn or VLC just looked a step behind. They don't look a step behind. They look like they no longer know how to play the game. Look at VLC's "breakaway" last night. The guy literally STOPPED so he could take a snap shot allowing the defender to catch up with him rather than ride his momentum, and go to the net. He very easily could have made a move to the backhand which would have had a much better chance of getting in the next. BUT HE STOPPED instead. That's a player who is confused and lost, not one who's just slow. He psyched himself out because either he just assumed the defender would over take him (so he just ensured the defender would over take him) or because someone told him his slapshot or snap shot was always his best option. I see similar stuff with Coburn. Maybe he has post concussion symptoms, but Brayden's not just out of position because he's slow, he's out of position because he's focused on the wrong thing. He's following the puck, not playing his position. That's not the kind of thing a guy UNlearns because he turned 28. It's the kind of thing that happens because he doesn't trust his partner or has been told to do something other than that. What was Simmonds doing on the first goal? He was waiting for the outlet pass because he though his D man had the puck. When his pocket got picked and the pass came out to Klein, where was Simmonds? He was still waiting for his outlet pass. That's not what the Wayne Simmonds of Game 6 last spring or from the first 3 games this year was doing. That's not Simmer's game. Simmer's game is aggressively making things happen on the ice, not waiting for the puck to come to him. Giroux can intercept outlet passes and keep pressure going, or carry the puck across the blue line very well. One of the best in the game. But then what's he doing with it?Here's a hint: HE DOESN'T KNOW. Becuase there's no system. Is he shooting? Is he passing? To whom? Where are they going to be? Meanwhile Jake and Schenn are like Table hockey stick figures unable to do anything buy go back and forth a few yards hoping a defender forgets they're there. There is no system. These guys don't know what to do. They might as well be begging for some coaching. some kind of plan. Dump and Chase can work in today's NHL, but you need, fast, aggressive skilled stick handlers who can steel a puck and make a pass to someone who knows how to get open. We actually have that in G, Jake, Simmer and I'll even include Schenn and Coots. Why aren't they doing it? Why are they instead just dumping and letting the defenders get the puck and bring it back out? What's going on here? They have no idea what they're doing. As far as untouchables, mine are G, Jake, Simmer, Coots, Laughton (because we just don't know, but I liked his energy and desire and he looked good on faceoffs) and I'll even include Schenn (because he looks now more than ever like he wants to play this game). Look at the desire and the energy in guys like Belly, Laughton and Raffl... even B Schenn looks hungry now. Why isn't that being utilized? Why do they look like they'd rather go to the Proctologist than play hockey? I'm sorry, they're past their prime, but I don't put it all on them. Berube is just out of his element here and seems for some reason I can't glean to have the support of the organization when it appears quite clear that he's very very rapidly losing the room. He's just not in the same class as a Vignault or a Quinville or even a Sutter (whose been coaching far longer than he played at this point). We need a coach who was probably never a Flyer. 2) If VLC and Umberger aren't cutting it, just friggin bench them. See how they do when you put them back in. If that doesn't work get rid of VLC and Umberger any way you can and give their roster spots to younger, hungrier guys.Trade them? okay trade them, but only if you can get a deal where you eat less of their salary against the cap than you would if you bought them out. I'm not going to put the failure of this team on them. The whole team was lazy and unmotivated last night. Not just those two. Worse than lazy, they looked confused. The biggest difference in Jeff Carter's game now then from when he was here? Confidence. His skills haven't changed. He knows what to do and when and where to do it and he feels confident in that knowledge. No one on this team looks remotely confident about what they are supposed to be doing or their ability to do it. If Umberger and VLC are really the problems bench them. If Coburn is really the problem, bench him. See if it gets better. But from my view it goes a lot deeper than the three of them. NO ONE seems to know what he is meant to be doing. No one. Maybe Mason, but he's starting to get pissed about how often he's asked to be doing it. RJ and VLC can be bought out but you are still going to absorb a cap hit for those stiffs. Meanwhile the cap is mostly likely decreasing next year. Somehow, salary needs to be moved and the players that are making the big $ on this Team are all but unmovable. I dont see anyone in their right mind taking VLC and/or RJ. Likewise, I dont see anyone wanting to acquire McDud with his current deal.Jake, G, Simmonds, Schenn - out of the everyday roster they are the only untouchables right now. Everyone is fair game on the trade market IMO. Maybe Cooter is part of the young core that is on his way out? I am just spit balling here...I guess in the end the magic question is: How long is this really going to take? I see this as a 3-4 year process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 The problem i have is that they HAVE played better and they just seem to be getting worse. Their first three weren't good, but there were flashes, then they played okay and at a few spots they even played well. Now they're just getting worse and worse. That to me does not suggest personnel problems on the bench so much as behind it and upstairs. My take is that a coaching change will have a temporary effect but our model of team building (trade versus draft) will "defeat" any coach over the long-term because whatever energy they bring will dissipate with the player complement's limited competence and "gelling." I concur that a change in a year or two will take place once we have the "new" team. Until then we will be mediocre at best. Defensive lapses aside, it's clear our offensive talent is limited to a few individuals. Giroux, Voracek, and one or two others can't carry everyone. If it weren't for Mason, last night's loss might have been 4 or 5-0. I wasn't expecting much this year so my disappointment level isn't great. The big problem is the difficulty I have watching. It isn't just the losing. It is very boring. Howie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted November 20, 2014 Author Share Posted November 20, 2014 As far as untouchables, mine are G, Jake, Simmer, Coots, Laughton (because we just don't know, but I liked his energy and desire and he looked good on faceoffs) and I'll even include Schenn (because he looks now more than ever like he wants to play this game). Laughton would be in there as well but I did not consider him and everyday player. Can't argue w/ any of your points. it is a sad state right now and the usual mantra of "skate harder" just is not working. Another alarming stat that I read today is the Flyers have yet to score the 1st goal in a road game this season. That is amazing to me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 I wasn't expecting much this year so my disappointment level isn't great. The big problem is the difficulty I have watching. It isn't just the losing. It is very boring. summed up perfectly ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted November 20, 2014 Author Share Posted November 20, 2014 summed up perfectly ! as always Howie makes good sense... Most of us believe this is a transition year but what is alarming is there is really not good takeaways at this point. Schenn is getting invloved which is nice to see... One would love to see a team that plays sound system hockey. the problem is there is nothing there... nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 All they need is the steadying hand or Lukey the Slow ® when's he get back anyway ? The PK has been dreadful without him...people love to hate him , however I submit the team has looked like pooh-kah since he went down to injury . Rag on Lukey all you want, the record don't lie ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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