Sporting News: 1/3 of the Players are Flyers

[jammer2]

You missed the point. Umberger dragged down the numbers of the players around him. Hartnell elevated the team's numbers. Not the other way around. So Hartnell playing with Giroux and Jake made Giroux and Jake better.

 

  I don't care what the stats say, there is no way I will accept that as the truth. Here we have a player who is literally incapable of skating the puck into the offensive zone. He has to dump it, cause he has no stickhandling skills....or the ability to think fast on his feet. Just a big GOOSE-EGG in the creativity dept....not saying R.J is all that, but he's superior to Harts in many ways....regardless of those stats. Literally anyone on the roster would have sparked that line more. He dragged that line down, that's what my eyes told me, so stats....I can take them or leave them, cause they are not always right.

[OccamsRazor]

I don't care what the stats say, there is no way I will accept that as the truth. Here we have a player who is literally incapable of skating the puck into the offensive zone

 

AMEN!!!!

[pilldoc]

@jammer2

@OccamsRazor

@AJgoal

 

Just some interesting quotes about facts.  Facts can use and manipulated to prove anyone's point of view.........

 

“Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are pliable.”
― Mark Twain

 

“99 percent of all statistics only tell 49 percent of the story.”
― Ron DeLegge II, Gents with No Cents

 

“Statistics lie. They are designed to sway opinions. Take the time to keep yourself informed on things that matter.”
― Steve Maraboli, Unapologetically You: Reflections on Life and the Human Experience

 

Statistics are like bikinis.  What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.  ~Aaron Levenstein

 

Do not put your faith in what statistics say until you have carefully considered what they do not say.  ~William W. Watt

[pilldoc]

  I don't care what the stats say, there is no way I will accept that as the truth. Here we have a player who is literally incapable of skating the puck into the offensive zone. He has to dump it, cause he has no stickhandling skills....or the ability to think fast on his feet. Just a big GOOSE-EGG in the creativity dept....not saying R.J is all that, but he's superior to Harts in many ways....regardless of those stats. Literally anyone on the roster would have sparked that line more. He dragged that line down, that's what my eyes told me, so stats....I can take them or leave them, cause they are not always right.

 

For the record, I agree with you.  For all the good Hartnell did, there were plenty of negatives too....like you mentioned, the lack of skating ability, like I mentioned, the untimely penalty (and the fact that he took too many of them and that was mentioned by the Chief directly at the STH forum that is mentioned in another thread)

 

"There was a question if the penalties we took vs the Rags were forced by their play against us or due to lack of discipline.  Coach said both.  He said we need to be more disciplined and that not having Hartnell was going to help in that area as he took a lot of penalties." - Berube at STH forum as paraphrased by other members on here.

 

It is time for this team to move forward and for various reasons, that we must accept, Hartnell is not part of the future.  His contract along with other things, IMO, has been well versed in several threads......

[OccamsRazor]

For the record, I agree with you.  For all the good Hartnell did, there were plenty of negatives too....like you mentioned, the lack of skating ability, like I mentioned, the untimely penalty

 

Me too that is all i'm saying he did some good things and he did some bad things.

 

Hartnell made a nice play in the 1st game on the first score.

 

But later in game 3 on the Rangers first score he is just casually skating back and watching the Rags out number the Flyers in their zone instead of hustling back and they score....plays like that is what send Berube through the roof that lazy bastard had no excuse for that and it's what sticks in your mind....it's playoffs for Christ sake....at home too.

 

 

first 10 seconds in just bad play by Hartnell.

[pilldoc]

@OccamsRazor

 

Great example.......I think Hartnell's greatest weakness was his lack of skating ability.  We all saw it time and time again.  Because of this, Hartnell was many times out of position and therefore had to take the penalty.  Agree, this is not to nullify all the good Hartnell did.  He was well liked both fans and teammates alike.  However, because of negatives and his bad contract, it was a logical choice for him to be moved.  Granted, RJ is no saint and certainly not the savior of this team.  However, he does have a bit more versatility as has been so well chronicled in both this and other threads and we do shorten a bad contract by 2 yrs.  I highly suspect RJ will be gone after the 3 yrs, if not sooner, if it can be made to happen.  This is all a process Hexy must do to undo the mess he inherited from one previous GM who shall remain namelss.

[OccamsRazor]

Great example.......I think Hartnell's greatest weakness was his lack of skating ability.

Fast forward to 4:09 of this clip and Hartnell takes himself out the play and instead of getting up and helping his teammates in their own zone he just skates off and the Rags score. Yes he lost his stick but he also just turned and blindly fired it and it went the other way. He lost his stick but he still could have got up and helped.

 

[jammer2]

@OccamsRazor  Yep....sometimes skating off is not the right move.  If you stay out there, at least you can cut off a passing lane, prevent an odd man rush, it's a tough call at times, but just skating off is not usually the right call.

[OccamsRazor]

@OccamsRazor  Yep....sometimes skating off is not the right move.  If you stay out there, at least you can cut off a passing lane, prevent an odd man rush, it's a tough call at times, but just skating off is not usually the right call.

 

 

Especially with a full rush the other way on your net you must play smart at all times.

 

No matter what though we are going to have to hear people complain every time Scotty does something good all this upcoming season and every time RJ has a miscue..........just like Richy and Carter.

 

I can just hear it now...endless thread after thread second guessing this till the end of the earth. I just hope RJ plays well or we'll never hear the end of it. 

[pilldoc]

Especially with a full rush the other way on your net you must play smart at all times.

 

No matter what though we are going to have to hear people complain every time Scotty does something good all this upcoming season and every time RJ has a miscue..........just like Richy and Carter.

 

I can just hear it now...endless thread after thread second guessing this till the end of the earth. I just hope RJ plays well or we'll never hear the end of it. 

 

Agreed...we should just brace for it, because we all know it is coming.  Sadly what people are going to fail to see is the big picture regarding this trade.  Regardless who has the better season, just knowing the fact that we shaved off 2 yrs of a bad contract is a win in my book.  Unfortunately there will be those who fail to see that.

[jammer2]

@pilldoc   HA HA....between R.J and the MacDaddy, there are gonna be some posters on here with some twitchy trigger fingers!!

[OccamsRazor]

Regardless who has the better season, just knowing the fact that we shaved off 2 yrs of a bad contract is a win in my book.

 

Yes and it will be used to resign Coots and Coburn and Brayden again if he earns it. Jake too i think. The money will be put to use for sure. Someone had to go and it just so happen Berube and Hexy thought Hartnell didn't fit any longer it is part of the job. In a perfect world without a cap Hartnell would still be here but we have to live in reality.

[jammer2]

Yes and it will be used to resign Coots and Coburn and Brayden again if he earns it. Jake too i think. The money will be put to use for sure. Someone had to go and it just so happen Berube and Hexy thought Hartnell didn't fit any longer it is part of the job. In a perfect world without a cap Hartnell would still be here but we have to live in reality.

 

 I think we will get some serious cap relief from our defense at some point in the next 2-4 years. As the vets are shuffled out and the kids are integrated into the starting line-up, millions will be saved. In 5 years, I'd be willing to bet that not one starting d-man on the 2014 starting roster will be left standing.....which is a good thing...a real good thing. As funny as it sounds, Luke might just be the only one left, if there is a straggler.

[OccamsRazor]

 I think we will get some serious cap relief from our defense at some point in the next 2-4 years. As the vets are shuffled out and the kids are integrated into the starting line-up, millions will be saved.

 

That is so foreign to type, to read, to hear, to think.....as a Flyer fan i don't even know how that feels....yet can't wait to experience. 

[LegionOfDoom]

What I will miss about Hartsy is the push back that he gave, he was a warrior and played with a wobble skating edge, and would stand up to all comers of the dubious sorts, he wouldn't let us get punked. I see B.Schenn can develop that quality and hopefully so, if he plays on the top line, because we'll need that...The Push Back. I don't want to go through a year of puss hockey, if ever we need to let the opposition know what's up.

[radoran]

And this post wasn't just towards you solely everyone who forgets how no effective Hartnell was i just click your post.

 

Forgive me for thinking you were responding to me when you responded to me

[radoran]

@jammer2

@OccamsRazor

@AJgoal

 

Just some interesting quotes about facts.  Facts can use and manipulated to prove anyone's point of view.........

 

“Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are pliable.”

― Mark Twain

 

“99 percent of all statistics only tell 49 percent of the story.”

― Ron DeLegge II, Gents with No Cents

 

“Statistics lie. They are designed to sway opinions. Take the time to keep yourself informed on things that matter.”

― Steve Maraboli, Unapologetically You: Reflections on Life and the Human Experience

 

Statistics are like bikinis.  What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.  ~Aaron Levenstein

 

Do not put your faith in what statistics say until you have carefully considered what they do not say.  ~William W. Watt

 

Lies, damn lies and statistics. - Twain. Or Disraeli. Probably Twain.

 

Quotes, damn quotes and statistics - radoran

[OccamsRazor]

Forgive me for thinking you were responding to me when you responded to me

 

It was easier than clicking or pasting everyones names.................................you know who you are i was referring to!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

RJ must have taken some of use guys parking spots or girls or both or something the hate for him before he even plays here again!!!!!!!!

[murraycraven]

RJ was dealing with a shoulder injury and a broken finger but don't let that get in the way.

But Crosby gets a pass for being injured and RJ don't. Anyways i'm glad Hartnell is gone. Good luck in Columbus.

Sorry man but Umberger and Crosby are on different planets as hockey players... Crosby was not benched when his team needed him most down the stretch... Most players are playing through pain... Of you want to use that excuse than u guys we should just absolve VLC for last year...

[OccamsRazor]

Sorry man but Umberger and Crosby are on different planets as hockey players

 

It's irrelevant he was hurt and still dealing with it into the playoffs and maybe he and his coach didn't get along not sure about that...but he isn't there anymore he turned the page everyone else should to.

 

And VLC doesn't need to be absolved he doesn't play defense and is still slow regardless if he was injured which he was during the season so yeah maybe Vinny scores 25-30 goals if he was healthy. We'll never know. This horse is dead. Time for a new off season discussion.

[LegionOfDoom]

Hextall is GM and he chose Umby for "his reasons" we cannot know how this turns out till after the playoffs are over. What if he sucks the first 4-6 months and turns it around and in the playoffs too is our savior, what If he lights it up the first three months and gets hurt and becomes a shell of what he was. His paper says versatility and mobility. If we can sustain the puck in their end, does that equate to more scoring chances. Less goals against, all this we can evaluate 10 games into the start of the season.

[King Knut]

The team played better with him. That all there is to it. Think about where we'd be now without him.

He's still decently young.

I think it's a good sign myself.

Sporting News had an article on players they expect to slide and two of the six players are listed. The full list of players can be found via the link.

http://www.sportingnews.com/nhl/story/2014-08-06/relative-corsi-rel-definition-andrew-macdonald-flyers-bruins

R.J. UMBERGER

If you told me that Columbus could get out of Umberger's $13.5 million owed at any point in the last 18 months, I would've had a stroke from laughing. It's a good thing the Philadelphia Flyers are still in existence, because I'm not sure if there's another organization that would have taken on Umberger's deal. The fact that the Flyers actually gave up a talented Scott Hartnell for a sunk asset makes this doubly insane. Eric Tulsky noted at the time of the trade that Umberger is coming off of his second-best shooting-percentage year since 2005-2006. Any bets on which stays, and which regresses?

ANDREW MACDONALD

I once said that human hockey anchor Jack Johnson would go down as one of the biggest data points in Hockey's Data War. I honestly am starting to wonder if MacDonald, with time, will leapfrog Johnson as the guy. His contract is an atrocity. The question that most people should be asking is whether or not MacDonald, he of the $30 million-owed variety, is even a second-pairing defender. Again, a lot like Smid — if the gruesome possession numbers don't sell you on how bad this deal is, what about the fact that his EV/60 scoring rates are comparable to Cory Sarich, Roman Polak and Scott Hannan? What about the fact that he individual shot/60 rate is 138th of 142 regular defenders over the same timeframe, trailing a guy like Rob Scuderi? What about the fact that he is one of 14 defenders that actually yield more than one shot-attempt against per minute? Think about the average contract in this group of 15 (or even this group of six), then remember that MacDonald is owed $30 million. The disparity between him and everyone else is alarming, and these are bad players that he's compared against

[King Knut]

Hextall didn't choose Umby. Columbus chose Hartsy and RJ was what the wanted to give.

Hextall chose being able to resign guys in two years over not.

Hextall is GM and he chose Umby for "his reasons" we cannot know how this turns out till after the playoffs are over. What if he sucks the first 4-6 months and turns it around and in the playoffs too is our savior, what If he lights it up the first three months and gets hurt and becomes a shell of what he was. His paper says versatility and mobility. If we can sustain the puck in their end, does that equate to more scoring chances. Less goals against, all this we can evaluate 10 games into the start of the season.

[OccamsRazor]

Hextall didn't choose Umby. Columbus chose Hartsy and RJ was what the wanted to give.

Hextall chose being able to resign guys in two years over not.

 

 

 

Doesn't matter how you label it he is gone. He doesn't fit the philosophy they are trying to mold the team into. So buh bye!!!!!! Who knows Rj could be gone too at the deadline this year too who knows.

[King Knut]

Not sure what that has to do with the price of eggs, but sure.

Doesn't matter how you label it he is gone. He doesn't fit the philosophy they are trying to mold the team into. So buh bye!!!!!! Who knows Rj could be gone too at the deadline this year too who knows.