murraycraven Posted August 8, 2014 Author Share Posted August 8, 2014 (edited) @jammer2 Does Umberger score more per game? Sure. Is he a clutch goal scorer? I'm trying not to laugh.For all of the RJ lovers out there can someone tell me how he is clutch outside of the habs series years ago?. Is this the same clutch player that was benched last year during the teams most critical stretch of the season? He was so clutch they put him in the rafters... Revisionist history is fun but this is not the same RJ that was here before... Edited August 8, 2014 by murraycraven 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 @flyercanuck I get what you are saying, nah...I've never really considered him clutch either. BUT...I'm sure Carey Price has a different view....ha ha. He just STOMPED the **** out of the Habs in that series, I'm forever in his debt for that!! If Umberger could have scored throughout that entire playoffs at half the rate he did in the Habs series he could have reached Primeau-status in Flyer-loredom. People would have remembered him as the greatest scorer Philly ever had in the history of sports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 If Umberger could have scored throughout that entire playoffs at half the rate he did in the Habs series he could have reached Primeau-status in Flyer-loredom. People would have remembered him as the greatest scorer Philly ever had in the history of sports. I agree. I'm very skeptical about the whole thing. Some posters come close to viewing this guy as a saviour, they are in for a shock. He *might* be a slight upgrade over Harts, but he could never pull off a 30+ goal season, something Harts is only one year removed from. To be fair though, all the stars aligned for Harts, and he played with a superstar....he could never do that again....they both suck. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted August 8, 2014 Author Share Posted August 8, 2014 I agree. I'm very skeptical about the whole thing. Some posters come close to viewing this guy as a saviour, they are in for a shock. He *might* be a slight upgrade over Harts, but he could never pull off a 30+ goal season, something Harts is only one year removed from. To be fair though, all the stars aligned for Harts, and he played with a superstar....he could never do that again....they both suck.There people that claimed Downie was the savior to last year's team jammer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 There people that claimed Downie was the savior to last year's team jammer! Pffffftt. He helped make the 3rd line click, for a month or so. It allowed us to have balanced scoring for the first time in quite a while, but was short lived and his contribution was over-hyped. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 (edited) I agree. I'm very skeptical about the whole thing. Some posters come close to viewing this guy as a saviour, they are in for a shock. He *might* be a slight upgrade over Harts, but he could never pull off a 30+ goal season, something Harts is only one year removed from. To be fair though, all the stars aligned for Harts, and he played with a superstar....he could never do that again....they both suck. the only "benefit" I see of RJ is hopefully the decrease in PIM. Hartnell took dumb penalties at the most inopportune time. For that alone, I hope will improve this team. Other than that, I just see a way that Hexy was able to decrease a bad contract by 2 yrs. It will take some time for Hexy to undo the mess that Homer created. This, IMO, is just one small baby step. I will acknowledge that RJ is a bit more versatile than Hartnell. IMO, this is just a temporary patch in fixing the Flyers. Edited August 8, 2014 by pilldoc 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 @pilldoc Great point, will not miss the ill timed PIM's from that ass clown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted August 8, 2014 Author Share Posted August 8, 2014 Pffffftt. He helped make the 3rd line click, for a month or so. It allowed us to have balanced scoring for the first time in quite a while, but was short lived and his contribution was over-hyped. amen brother! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 I still think this was nothing more than getting rid of 2 years of salary. And i'm ok with this.....guys will need to be resigned in the future and Hexy needs Hartnell's money....so i understand this move. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegionOfDoom Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 On paper we're better as a team, we'll have to see what the eye test reveals. I hate to say it because I like Hartsy, just not his habits on the ice, but Umby seems to improve our team now and in the playoffs. I don't want to say this exactly, but he might be an older version of Matt Read on the start of the descending hill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howie58 Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 I suspect the MacDonald trade is one that will haunt us for some time. I am wondering what people saw in him other than TOI, which seemed to be 19 or higher, if I recall. Maybe there is a reason Hexy is GM. Best,Howie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 I gotta say... Anytime I went after Hartnell there was an outcry about what a great guy he is, what a locker room presence, a guy who scores the dirty goals, pays the price, does whatever it takes, etc etc etc...Where'd all that go? Lol. The Nibbler is gone... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 I gotta say... Anytime I went after Hartnell there was an outcry about what a great guy he is, what a locker room presence, a guy who scores the dirty goals, pays the price, does whatever it takes, etc etc etc...Where'd all that go? Lol. The Nibbler is gone... Hartnells contract was too long. If it was 2 or 3 years, I'd have no problem keeping him. It's been mentioned that it was a deal to get rid of 2 years of contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 Hartnells contract was too long. If it was 2 or 3 years, I'd have no problem keeping him.It's been mentioned that it was a deal to get rid of 2 years of contract.Hardly justifies the sudden criticism and loss of support. Makes me wonder if its a knee-jerk to his being shipped out. Hartnell is a better player than Umberger recently despite his problems so all but the two years favors Hartnell. And I'm reading a lot of people happy with this trade. Just going with the flow?? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted August 9, 2014 Author Share Posted August 9, 2014 (edited) Hardly justifies the sudden criticism and loss of support. Makes me wonder if its a knee-jerk to his being shipped out. Hartnell is a better player than Umberger recently despite his problems so all but the two years favors Hartnell. And I'm reading a lot of people happy with this trade. Just going with the flow??You will not get me to say any of that... I like that the contract is shorter but we are not a better team IMO. Hartnell gone and Kimmo out... We are not a better team than last year's group. No way and no how... I hope RJ comes here and plays great. Although I have no expectations bc I watched him in CBJ and really don't see why most on here think he is great. Edited August 9, 2014 by murraycraven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted August 9, 2014 Author Share Posted August 9, 2014 (edited) On paper we're better as a team, we'll have to see what the eye test reveals. I hate to say it because I like Hartsy, just not his habits on the ice, but Umby seems to improve our team now and in the playoffs. I don't want to say this exactly, but he might be an older version of Matt Read on the start of the descending hill.I don't see how we are a better team today than we were last year. Edited August 9, 2014 by murraycraven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 @Polaris922@Polaris922 Hartnell scores the dirty goals --- checkGood locker room guy -- checkagitates opposing players --- check HOWEVER ... for this team to move forward his contract was way to long..it was a bad contract. PERIOD. He took way TOO MANY penalties and at the wrong time. He was not a top line player. I like him as a player, but because of the other things I mentioned, for this to move forward, Hartnell had to go. I wish him well. As had been mentioned before, RJ is not the savior of this team. To think otherwise is foolish. Of course if you criticized Hartnell, there was an outcry. The same can be said of Neal. You defended Neal (as you should when he was still with the team.) However, once he went to the Preds alot of Pens fans on other boards where a-ok with the move. I think it is just a matter of perspective. Hartnell had his issues when with the team and we overlooked them. Now that he is gone, it is alot easier recognize those flaws and as I mentioned before, it easier for this team to move forward. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doom88 Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 Hardly justifies the sudden criticism and loss of support. Makes me wonder if its a knee-jerk to his being shipped out. Hartnell is a better player than Umberger recently despite his problems so all but the two years favors Hartnell. And I'm reading a lot of people happy with this trade. Just going with the flow??Well, he had some pretty terrible moments last year, and criticism started mounting a few years ago with that idiotic glove incident. He was the lovable fool. Just because people liked him, doesn't mean they weren't aware of his limitations. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 Hardly justifies the sudden criticism and loss of support. Makes me wonder if its a knee-jerk to his being shipped out. Hartnell is a better player than Umberger recently despite his problems so all but the two years favors Hartnell. And I'm reading a lot of people happy with this trade. Just going with the flow?? I can only speak for myself, but I wasn't the only one criticizing Homer for giving Hartnell that contract. I would say most weren't in favour of it. Hartnell was a good player for Philly. I've mentioned before if I could have a beer with any Flyer it would be him. But I have no problem whatsoever getting rid of that contract...even if it means we had to take Umberger back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doom88 Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 I can only speak for myself, but I wasn't the only one criticizing Homer for giving Hartnell that contract. I would say most weren't in favour of it. Hartnell was a good player for Philly. I've mentioned before if I could have a beer with any Flyer it would be him. But I have no problem whatsoever getting rid of that contract...even if it means we had to take Umberger back.QFT.Caveat, if the Flyers weren't boxed into a corner with the cap, I'd legitimately try to keep him. And yes, I'm aware it makes no statistical sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 The Flyers have added the Islanders' top pairing and a guy who couldn't crack the Blue Jackets' lineup down the stretch.#upgradeTo be clear, I'd rather have Umburglar's contract then Hartnell's and think he has potential to be better than Yost says.But if the Sabres or Leafs had added these guys as "upgrades" I'll wager there might be some different perspective around here... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doom88 Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 The Flyers have added the Islanders' top pairing and a guy who couldn't crack the Blue Jackets' lineup down the stretch.#upgradeTo be clear, I'd rather have Umburglar's contract then Hartnell's and think he has potential to be better than Yost says.But if the Sabres or Leafs had added these guys as "upgrades" I'll wager there might be some different perspective around here...Like Leino and Erhoff? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted August 9, 2014 Author Share Posted August 9, 2014 The Flyers have added the Islanders' top pairing and a guy who couldn't crack the Blue Jackets' lineup down the stretch.#upgradeTo be clear, I'd rather have Umburglar's contract then Hartnell's and think he has potential to be better than Yost says.But if the Sabres or Leafs had added these guys as "upgrades" I'll wager there might be some different perspective around here... Amen! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 Agreed rad. Streit actually did fine after a slow start. And because of the type of game he plays, I think he's less at risk of an LTI. He'll be fine on the top pair for a few years until someone else is ready to take over. Honestly, in the absence of any better options, he's adequate. MacDonald, on the other hand, is just not a very good defenseman. I don't know how he managed to swindle Homer into giving him $30M over 6 years, but that was highway robbery if I've ever seen it. I know a lot of you use the 'eye' test to say that he's fine, but when all the important and meaningful statistics show that he's a mediocre to bad defenseman in just about all facets of, you know, playing defense, the eye test just doesn't sound very reliable to me. This was a mistake signing that will take up valuable cap space and TOI for the next 6 years. As for Hartnell, like I said, he was very limited in what he could actually do. Great community guy, great glue guy, and solid power forward with the right players. But contract was too long. Umberger gives us more lineup options, and apparently he is a conditioning freak which appeals to Berube. Hartnell was not. It was the first move in Hextall's tenure that signalled a true change of direction and separation from the old guard. The systematic undoing of bad contracts, if you will. Our blue line looks pretty underwhelming, but maybe with a full camp under Berube and better conditioning, they can play as units and into a system. That is worth a lot more than individual talent when properly executed. Streit/CoburnMacDonald/SchennDel Zotto/GrossmannSchultz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 the only "benefit" I see of RJ is hopefully the decrease in PIM. Yes RJ can help on the PK too Hartnell didn't. Hartnell scored 9 powerplay goals last year. RJ scored 8 looks pretty even to me. RJ is more versatile. Hartnell sucked the last half of the season people forget or just for some reason over look and he sucked in the playoffs all playing with the two best forwards on the team. Hartnell got all his numbers playing with the likes of Giroux, Jake and Jagr RJ never got to play with talent like that. It's a contract dump and it's for the good of the team. I haven't seen anyone claim RJ was the savior. And i like FC said hated that contract for Hartnell from the start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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