murraycraven Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 (edited) Sporting News had an article on players they expect to slide and two of the six players are listed. The full list of players can be found via the link. http://www.sportingnews.com/nhl/story/2014-08-06/relative-corsi-rel-definition-andrew-macdonald-flyers-bruins R.J. UMBERGER If you told me that Columbus could get out of Umberger's $13.5 million owed at any point in the last 18 months, I would've had a stroke from laughing. It's a good thing the Philadelphia Flyers are still in existence, because I'm not sure if there's another organization that would have taken on Umberger's deal. The fact that the Flyers actually gave up a talented Scott Hartnell for a sunk asset makes this doubly insane. Eric Tulsky noted at the time of the trade that Umberger is coming off of his second-best shooting-percentage year since 2005-2006. Any bets on which stays, and which regresses? ANDREW MACDONALD I once said that human hockey anchor Jack Johnson would go down as one of the biggest data points in Hockey's Data War. I honestly am starting to wonder if MacDonald, with time, will leapfrog Johnson as the guy. His contract is an atrocity. The question that most people should be asking is whether or not MacDonald, he of the $30 million-owed variety, is even a second-pairing defender. Again, a lot like Smid — if the gruesome possession numbers don't sell you on how bad this deal is, what about the fact that his EV/60 scoring rates are comparable to Cory Sarich, Roman Polak and Scott Hannan? What about the fact that he individual shot/60 rate is 138th of 142 regular defenders over the same timeframe, trailing a guy like Rob Scuderi? What about the fact that he is one of 14 defenders that actually yield more than one shot-attempt against per minute? Think about the average contract in this group of 15 (or even this group of six), then remember that MacDonald is owed $30 million. The disparity between him and everyone else is alarming, and these are bad players that he's compared against Edited August 7, 2014 by murraycraven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishjim Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 with RJ he neglected to point out that the flyers traded a 5 year bad contract for a 3 year bad contract with 2 guys with similar numbers..and no mention of the orpick deal with florida..this writer sounds like a flyer hater, is he from pittsburgh by any chance 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 @Irishjim I was kinda of thinking the same thing. We had a whole thread regarding this several weeks ago. The general consensus was that if anything it was a pretty much even trade. The only real difference was that, like you said RJ has a 3 yr bad contract and Hartsy had a 5 yr bad contract. 3 is better than 5 5 any day of the week in my book. Also, RJ has far less PIM than Hartnell who was a PIM producing machine (and may I add at very bad moments of the game). Spending less time on the PK whould go along way on this team. (I hope! ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 (edited) The fact that the Flyers actually gave up a talented Scott Hartnell for a sunk asset makes this doubly insane That just makes me laugh....needed that today....HAHAHAHA!!!!!!! It's like non of these guys do research to try to figure out why this was done....reporting today is on the major slide. Edited August 7, 2014 by OccamsRazor 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 this writer sounds like a flyer hater Without a doubt..........sounds like the Nashville GM wrote that with intentions..............meh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted August 7, 2014 Author Share Posted August 7, 2014 (edited) Total hatred for the Flyers... although, I do agree about MacD to an extent... RJ's piece was missing the most important part of losing 2 years of a bad contract. RJ is going to come here and score 30 goals for sure... Edited August 7, 2014 by murraycraven 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 (edited) Total hatred for the Flyers... although, I do agree about MacD to an extent... RJ's piece was missing the most important part of losing 2 years of a bad contract. RJ is going to come here and score 30 goals for sure... like I menitoned.. another important piece, not mentioned, is that Hartnell had way more PIM than RJ. Staying out of the box and not taking dumb penalties will help this team much more. the writer, IMO, is a total Flyer hater....I'll pass him up and just move right along.... Edited August 7, 2014 by pilldoc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 RJ is going to come here and score 30 goals for sure... You're selling him short...........................i'm expecting between 40-45 or his will be traded at the deadline!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 I say gUmby comes in and pots 61 goals. Ya,ya...I know, crazy right? How in the hell do I come up with that? Cause there's no way he's better than Reggie Leach. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertmega Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 @OccamsRazor Yeah when I saw "Flyers actually gave up a talented Scott Hartnell", I actually lost all respect for Travis Yost's ability to objectively analyze hockey. I wonder if he was wearing his Senators jersey when he typed that report up? Then again, I'd talk $hit too if my team was too cheap to retain any talent. Must be hard being on the outside looking in for Travis. Haters gonna H8 H8 H8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 @OccamsRazor Yeah when I saw "Flyers actually gave up a talented Scott Hartnell", I actually lost all respect for Travis Yost's ability to objectively analyze hockey. I wonder if he was wearing his Senators jersey when he typed that report up? Then again, I'd talk $hit too if my team was too cheap to retain any talent. Must be hard being on the outside looking in for Travis. Haters gonna H8 H8 H8 Yeah i'm not saying Scotty is a bum but i just haven't been impressed with his skills playing with the two best forwards on the team. Time and time again i remember watching him receive the puck from either G or Jake only to see him fumble it or pass it to nowhere and lose it and it goin back the other way....that is when he wasn't flat on his back in the offensive zone after noone even touched him. He is a power forward who was never fast and it seems he is getting even slower. Combined that with his undisciplined play and it's just time to move on. He hasn't impressed me since Jagr was on his wing. RJ isn't the same type of forward Hartnell was but he is a better defensive forward than Scott was and he scored one less power play goal than Scott did last year so it's a less commitment contract wise for a more versatile player. Lets not forget RJ had less PIMs over his last four years than Hartnell did last year alone. So less time in the sin bin and on the PK has to be an addition by subtraction. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 I see Umberger as a downgrade from Hartnell. But the shorter stupid contract is a bit of an offset.I had no idea MacDonald's numbers in those categories were that bad. That's pretty tough to argue. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted August 7, 2014 Author Share Posted August 7, 2014 I see Umberger as a downgrade from Hartnell. But the shorter stupid contract is a bit of an offset.I had no idea MacDonald's numbers in those categories were that bad. That's pretty tough to argue. I look at Umberger as a downgrade too but like the shorter contract... As I have said a million times I am in "wait and see" mode with how RJ is playing. I really dont look at RJ as helping this Team be better even w/ the lesser amount of penalties he takes than Hartnell. The way his season ended last year dras serious concerns. In any event this is a transition year for the Flyers and a playoff bubble team IMO. Too many "what ifs" for this team to be a serious threat. I would love to be wrong... but I dont see this Team being ready to win now w/ the current defense, questions at LW, etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegionOfDoom Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 It's hard for some to see this trade being an upgrade, because Hartnell brought certain untangebles to the table. The thing is that Umberger isn't comparable to Hartnell. It's almost apples to oranges, they're a different breed of players. What your getting with Umber is improved speed, improved discipline, improved defensive play, and an oomph of clutch goal scoring(raises game in playoffs).what he doesn't do is: He doesn't throw opposing players off their game, pestering them, doesn't really draw penalties, won't be the first guy to loosen the tension in the locker room, and shot accuracy won't be as high as Hartsy.These players are different type of players, they have their pros and cons, but once again Umby seems to fit Hexy's vision a bit more in puck possession and speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 What we get with Umberger are options. He can play wing or center on any line from the 1st to the 4th. He can kill penalties. And he might also play on the 2nd PP. With Hartnell we had no such options. He had to be a top line winger to be effective (that little stretch with Schenn and Simmonds notwithstanding). In offensive output, it's a downgrade. But in every other way, it's an upgrade. Offense is not our problem. Yost's oversight was not looking at each team's perspective on why they would make this move and analyse it from that angle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 In offensive output, it's a downgrade. I agree with everything except this is think it's close to the same honestly....so more as a push. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 If you're expecting Umberger to bring speed and intensity, you're remembering a different Umberger... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 @murraycraven All I know is when McDonald has the puck or is close to acquiring the puck, I have a sense of calmness, like I know everything is going to be all right. There is no nervous twitch or a one eyed cringe like I have every time Coburn or Streit touch the puck. Why? Cause MacDaddy has proven to me he will do the safe responsible (and usually unspectacular, which is fine by me) thing with the puck....no Matt Carle brain farts to end the game in OT....give me MacDonald over Carle *any* day. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 It's hard for some to see this trade being an upgrade, because Hartnell brought certain untangebles to the table. The thing is that Umberger isn't comparable to Hartnell. It's almost apples to oranges, they're a different breed of players. What your getting with Umber is improved speed , improved discipline, improved defensive play, and an oomph of clutch goal scoring(raises game in playoffs).what he doesn't do is: He doesn't throw opposing players off their game, pestering them, doesn't really draw penalties, won't be the first guy to loosen the tension in the locker room, and shot accuracy won't be as high as Hartsy.These players are different type of players, they have their pros and cons, but once again Umby seems to fit Hexy's vision a bit more in puck possession and speed. Umberger provides improved speed only because Hartnell is glacier slow. Improved discipline? Yes. Improved defensive play? Yes. Clutch scoring? LOL - he had one nice series in one playoff where he scored 7? goals. Other than that he's got 7 goals TOTAL in his playoff career. I still think this was nothing more than getting rid of 2 years of salary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 @flyercanuck Well, it's the games played that make the big difference here. R.J has 15 goals in 31 playoff games, Harts had 19 in 91....a fairly substantial difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 @jammer2 Does Umberger score more per game? Sure. Is he a clutch goal scorer? I'm trying not to laugh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 @flyercanuck I get what you are saying, nah...I've never really considered him clutch either. BUT...I'm sure Carey Price has a different view....ha ha. He just STOMPED the **** out of the Habs in that series, I'm forever in his debt for that!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted August 8, 2014 Author Share Posted August 8, 2014 If you're expecting Umberger to bring speed and intensity, you're remembering a different Umberger...I argued before Polaris that RJ and Hartwell were about the same speed. RJ might not fall down as much but the speed everyone seems to think he has is way overrated imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted August 8, 2014 Author Share Posted August 8, 2014 @murraycraven All I know is when McDonald has the puck or is close to acquiring the puck, I have a sense of calmness, like I know everything is going to be all right. There is no nervous twitch or a one eyed cringe like I have every time Coburn or Streit touch the puck. Why? Cause MacDaddy has proven to me he will do the safe responsible (and usually unspectacular, which is fine by me) thing with the puck....no Matt Carle brain farts to end the game in OT....give me MacDonald over Carle *any* day. Jammer, i see calmness with the exception of the Rangers series. He was not good in that series. His stats are absolutely scary when you look at them.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 @murraycraven Agreed, MacDonald had a sub par playoffs. To be fair though, all the Flyers d-men failed to hold the Rangers forecheck in place....that is where the series was really lost, our D's inability to make quick precise decisions with the puck. The Ranger forwards were simply faster and wanted it more IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.