B21 Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 In all fairness (and Polaris / B21 could weigh in better than I), their farm team is pretty good and has been for a few years (certainly much better than the Phantoms). In that vein, should we fire Homer because our farm team sucks worse (much) than Pitts?? Rhetorical question of course. Defense? Yes. Goalies? Not bad. Forwards? Lots of guys that project as 3rd/4th liners. Of course - right now the Pens need 3rd/4th liners. He did fall short on finding replacements for guys like Dupuis and Kunitz (who will likely need to be replaced in the next 2-3 seasons). That said - what team has a replacement ready to step in for every spot on their roster? That's why God invented free agency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 That's a big risk to take to send a message. Lost locker room or not I think we all agree Bylsma has not done a good job coaching these last few seasons.I dunno B ...109 points with what 430 man games lost to injury ?, to everyone but the one. I'd say he's done a good job of coaching, he has not met the lofty expectations of having 2 generational talents in their primes, which I suppose should be what ? Minimum ECF every year? I think he's lost the room, for whatever reason, and if guys aren't listening it's kind of tough to get your point across...so who knows if he was truly out coached or had his game plan scuttled... I do think this weird situation may be part message to the team's leadership core that they need to change their SOP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 Hey, what do you think of malkin to San Jose for Thornton? I would say no. To me, Thornton is crosby esque, just different (and truthfully softer). Meaning that Crosby can score, but his forte' is play making and making the players around him better. I think the same of Thornton. Also, I don't like the age difference. Thornton is getting long on the tooth. For me, for a "malkin", I move him and letang (need to get that albatross off the team) for 2 tier two (second line) players and a grit third line player. The only mano-o-mano trade I would do for a "malkin" is Weaber-Malkin. The money makes sense and the needs make sense (ie. Nash needs offense and Pitts needs an anchor on d). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 In all fairness (and Polaris / B21 could weigh in better than I), their farm team is pretty good and has been for a few years (certainly much better than the Phantoms). In that vein, should we fire Homer because our farm team sucks worse (much) than Pitts?? Rhetorical question of course. One of Homers worst gaffes was not caring about the Phantoms. They should make a jump forward this year with the influx of Gotsbeer? Laughton, Morin and Stolarz. That's some quality talent there. Hopefully Hex gets some good veterans to help provide a winning atmosphere there. Pittsburgh has Pouliot, Dumoilin and Harrington on D. Pouliot looks like another Letang type. Which is great, but not what they are lacking. Dumoilin and Harrington may be able to add what Pittsburgh lacks on D, DEFENCE. We'll see. Jarry in net looks good but goalies are tough to call. There's nothing special at the forward position and never has been. Therein lies the problem...the drafting just wasn't great. I think Pouliot looks like a sure thing. Harrington will be a good player but i wouldn't consider him elite. I won't comment on Dumoilin cause i don't know much about him. Philly has Morin, Hagg and Gotsbeer? More of a crapshoot but not bad. Stolarz and Jarry or Hartzell are almost tradeoffs with a slight nod to the Pens.. Laughton is a better forward prospect than anything the Pens have. Akeson looks like he might be as well. It's not like either one has a huge advantage coming up as far as potential NHLers. The Pens just have better AHLers. So does just about everyone else for that matter. HF boards fall edition has the Pens prospects at #17 in the NHL and Philly at #30. I think you see that a lot closer when they update. http://www.hockeysfuture.com/team-rankings/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 My theory goes, maybe somebody they are targeting as GM likes Blysma, so his being there strengthens their ability to get "their guy". Interesting angle and one I would have never thought of. I guess the question that I would raise is if that is true, than the horse collar fully would fall around Shero and no accountability to Blysma. While not as stark as the Bill Barber / Rechhi / Primeaue thing, when your stud player is yelling at your couch, there is a problem. It should be the OTHER way around (particularly given Crosbys play for this playoffs). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 I'd say he's done a good job of coaching, he has not met the lofty expectations of having 2 generational talents in their primes, This is kind of the side bar thing I was alluding too. Is it really worth it to have two like that? At what point to do you fish and cut bait? I actually was advocating (side are GM side) that I thought they should have moved one of the two two years ago. I think Malkin plays much better without Crosby in the line-up (ie. he carries that weight). I also think having the two gives an easy out for the coach. I think Malkin / Crosby on the same line is not good. I don't have anything substantial to add to that thought other than it just seems like eggs in one basket. Move one and get 3 players, a pick and cap relief. Flower was not the problem this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B21 Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 This is kind of the side bar thing I was alluding too. Is it really worth it to have two like that? At what point to do you fish and cut bait? I actually was advocating (side are GM side) that I thought they should have moved one of the two two years ago. I think Malkin plays much better without Crosby in the line-up (ie. he carries that weight). I also think having the two gives an easy out for the coach. I think Malkin / Crosby on the same line is not good. I don't have anything substantial to add to that thought other than it just seems like eggs in one basket. Move one and get 3 players, a pick and cap relief. Flower was not the problem this year. Agree on pairing Malkin and Crosby. Agree on Fleury. The smart thing to do is deal from your strength to fix your weakness. The strength of the Pens is organizational depth on D - even if they lose Niskanen. Weakness is organizational depth at forward and a need for some "grit/character" bottom 6 forwards. I/M/H/O those should be the only trades the Pens look to make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Weakness is organizational depth at forward and a need for some "grit/character" bottom 6 forwards. So scratch my Malkin / Crosby for a Weber type and supplant it with Malkin / Crosby for 3 player and a pick. Add a UFA here / there and be done with it. Also, it would give you guys the cash to sign Niskanen (assuming the players coming back are less than 9M in total). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 So scratch my Malkin / Crosby for a Weber type and supplant it with Malkin / Crosby for 3 player and a pick. Add a UFA here / there and be done with it. Also, it would give you guys the cash to sign Niskanen (assuming the players coming back are less than 9M in total). We have the money for Niskanen. Orpik's contract ended, and there's space. I don't know if they will though. We have a good bunch of defensive prospects that deserve a chance. I hope they do, I just don't know that they will. Back to the actual topic though... I heard a little birdie infer that the Pens MIGHT have an in on prying Babcock from the Wings. THey MAY be waiting to see if it happens, because a coach like him would have a lot of say on what players stay and what players go.... When I first heard the rumor I thought it was pure mularkey... but I'm hearing more and more of it, and that actually made sense... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 I heard a little birdie infer that the Pens MIGHT have an in on prying Babcock from the Wings. That whole concept is intriguing to me. Whats his connection to Pitts? Truthfully, if you were able to get him, I would see him stepping in as GM. He has nothing left to prove as a coach. The players he has in Detroit are just as good as the players in Pitts (perhaps better because of balance and his coaching). What would the incentive be to coach Pitts. Especially given the latest round of "malcontent" rumors surrounding Crybaby (sorry, I am still a Flyer fan first)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted May 20, 2014 Author Share Posted May 20, 2014 Two points: 1) its rare that a replacement is immediately selected / announced (think Van, etc.). Really? Not in Philly. Clarke, Homer, Hextall, all ready and waiting in the wings immediately. Berube, Laviolette, Stevens, all ready and waiting in the wings immediately. I guess I"m just used to the Philly model Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 This is kind of the side bar thing I was alluding too. Is it really worth it to have two like that? At what point to do you fish and cut bait? I actually was advocating (side are GM side) that I thought they should have moved one of the two two years ago. I think Malkin plays much better without Crosby in the line-up (ie. he carries that weight). I also think having the two gives an easy out for the coach. I think Malkin / Crosby on the same line is not good. I don't have anything substantial to add to that thought other than it just seems like eggs in one basket. Move one and get 3 players, a pick and cap relief. Flower was not the problem this year. Crosby/Malkin on one line isn't good. It makes neal a non factor. I'd trade one of them if someone wanted to overapy. And somebody would. Flower wasn't THE problem this year. But he had 7 games of .900 or worse save percentage. That ain't helping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 We have the money for Niskanen. Orpik's contract ended, and there's space. I don't know if they will though. We have a good bunch of defensive prospects that deserve a chance. I hope they do, I just don't know that they will. Back to the actual topic though... I heard a little birdie infer that the Pens MIGHT have an in on prying Babcock from the Wings. THey MAY be waiting to see if it happens, because a coach like him would have a lot of say on what players stay and what players go.... When I first heard the rumor I thought it was pure mularkey... but I'm hearing more and more of it, and that actually made sense... I think Pouliot and Harrington would both need a year in the A. Not sure if Dumoilin is ready. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B21 Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 That whole concept is intriguing to me. Whats his connection to Pitts? Truthfully, if you were able to get him, I would see him stepping in as GM. He has nothing left to prove as a coach. The players he has in Detroit are just as good as the players in Pitts (perhaps better because of balance and his coaching). What would the incentive be to coach Pitts. Especially given the latest round of "malcontent" rumors surrounding Crybaby (sorry, I am still a Flyer fan first)? Very interesting thought. He's a coaching lifer but that's not to say he could not have success in building a roster and player development if he surrounded himself with the right people. My only concern - aside from the experience factor - would be the Pens as Babcock's guinea pig to see if he could handle being a GM. Who his coach would be is an interesting question. Does he bring in a Tom Renney (current Wings assistant) who has scouting and player development experience? Definitely thinking outside the box, Van! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 @VanflyerI don't know the connection and I put in another post I don't see it happening, but strange things do happen out there. I think the Pens have a stronger roster than Detroit right now, but the Wings are still competitive so it's not like he's in a hopeless situation. @brelicThose were all circumstances of good old boys moving up and a new face taking the GM spot. The Pens rolled Bylsma out so that's not happening here. @flyercanuckI was thinking more Depres and Bortuzzo full time. Figure Letang, Martin, Maata, Scuderi, Bortuzzo and Depres. If they can keep Niskanen and shelf Scuderi then all the better in my eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 @Polaris922 OK - I thought when you said "prospects" you meant those guys. And Pouliot I could see maybe making the Pens, if you play him with someone who's defensively responsible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 @Polaris922 OK - I thought when you said "prospects" you meant those guys. And Pouliot I could see maybe making the Pens, if you play him with someone who's defensively responsible.. I could see getting them time and in hindsight I suppose Bortuzzo and Depres might not be considered prospects anymore. Maybe I'm wrong but in my eyes someone is a prospect until they're full time with the big club. Personal perspective I guess, sorry! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 @Polaris922 I guess they kind of still are...I just considered them as Pens depth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 It's not like either one has a huge advantage coming up as far as potential NHLers. The Pens just have better AHLers. Well stated. While I didnt pay attention to the call up replacement for injuries, you still have to be impressed that some nights a fair portion of the Pens rosters were ahl players. You and others are right that Blysma should be credited with making that work. From what I have seen and heard from Pens fans is that Blysma has a cookie cutter approach to coaching and has a significant lack of ability to make in game changes that work (ie square peg round hole changes). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 He's a coaching lifer but that's not to say he could not have success in building a roster and player development if he surrounded himself with the right people. My only concern - aside from the experience factor - would be the Pens as Babcock's guinea pig to see if he could handle being a GM. Good point about the experience. For me, it has more to do with the business side of things v. the personnel side of things. I think on the personnel side of things, he would be fine and excel. By all accounts, he is an extremely bright person, so I don't think the business side of things would take long. What I would do is bring in an assistant GM that has significant experience and does not have aspirations to be head gm, but prefers a supporting role and being with a winning organization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.