VLC to 4th Line C?

[Bertmega]

Wonder if he can serve buttered popcorn and 7-Up?

[hf101]

So is Vinny pissed enough to ask to be traded in the off season?  Could the demotion be part of a plan to make sure Vinny IS traded this summer? 

[Bertmega]

@hf101

 

I'd hope, but there was a reason they brought him here. There is noway Holmgren gets out of that contract without shipping a high pick or prospect. 

[hf101]

@hf101

 

I'd hope, but there was a reason they brought him here. There is noway Holmgren gets out of that contract without shipping a high pick or prospect. 

 

Yeah, but there are other teams in the league that are not against the cap who could use a 2nd or 3rd line center such as Vinny.

[JackStraw]

but there was a reason they brought him here

 

Would you care to share that reason with the rest of us? Because I don't have a clue.

[AJgoal]

I do not think he moves this summer, firstly, he has a no movement clause. Second, I don't think many teams would want to pick up a declining VLC at 6 million in salary and a 4.5 million dollar cap hit. His salary is then 4.5, 3, 3 in the last three years of his contract, which is when he becomes more moveable as long as he maintains production between 30-40 points. If so, I think there would be teams willing to pick him up at 2.25/1.5/1.5 million and a 2.25 million dollar cap hit over the last three seasons of his contract. That's not out of line for a 3rd line center in the NHL. If the Flyers can reclaim half of his cap number in those years and eliminate him as an impediment to the remainder of the forwards corps, that's about the best possible outcome you can hope for, even if you only get the proverbial bag of pucks for him.

 

EDIT: of course, he COULD retire, as well. Flyers would get hit with the "cap-advantage" tax, but it's cheaper on the cap than keeping him on the roster.

Edited March 28, 2014 by AJgoal

[Vanflyer]

$4.5M to center the fourth line. Four more years to go.

 

Most over-rated player I have ever seen. I guess we could still have briere (at least we know he shows up in the playoffs!!). 

[Vanflyer]

I can't wait to see how this contract looks in 3 years......

 

.....when he is riding the bus in Lehigh Valley???

[Vanflyer]

very valid point fanatic... although, I dont think this is a "funk" honestly.  I think this is what VLC is at this point of his career... 

 

Washed up at 33???  

 

What happened to this player??? 

[Vanflyer]

He had a do-over w/ Danny

 

I am not with you on the bash Briere boat. That actually was a necessary deal and the Flyers choose / signed the correct center. The three marquee UFA centers that year were: gomez, briere and drury. Drury was the guy I wanted, but in hind sight, briere turned out to be the best of the lot and clutch in the playoffs. 

 

The briere move was about cap hit (6.5M). I don't think you can compare the Briere buyout to the Lecavelier buyout. Whomever signed the Lecavalier contract in tampa should have been shot. 

 

The cost for the Flyers to buyout Briere was 3.3M total. That is a good business deal. Get 6.5M per anum cap space- sure, I do that for an aging player where I already have a log jam at the position. 

 

To come full circle, since I have a log jam at that position, why in the world do I get a Lecavelier??

Edited March 28, 2014 by Vanflyer

[radoran]

.....when he is riding the bus in Lehigh Valley???

 

And being a $3.5+M cap hit for the Flyers?

 

 

Washed up at 33???  

 

What happened to this player??? 

 

He's been on a steady downswing for the past several seasons - in large part due to injury. He's been in the league 14 years and his style of play has caught up with him.

 

Again, there's a reason Tampa bought out their captain and face of the franchise and will pay $30M over the next 14 years for him not to play for them.

 

Numbers

06-07 82 games, 108 points

07-08 81 games, 92 points

08-09 77 games, 67 points

09-10 82 games, 70 points

10-11 65 games, 54 points

11-12 64 games, 49 points

12-13 39 games, 32 points - lockout

 

When you look at that trend, do you see a burgeoning resurgence? Because Homer did.

 

13-14 59 games, 30 points - current

 

What you hope for from this guy is a 20 goal, 50 point effort on the season - because $4.5M is right around what a 20/50 guy gets in this league. But he simply has to be a center for those 30 assists to come in and he has to play with guys who can do at least something offensively. And he hasn't played a full season - not even in the lockout-shortened one - since 09-10.

 

He's just never what the Flyers needed and from the looks of things never will be.

[Vanflyer]

When you look at that trend, do you see a burgeoning resurgence? Because Homer did.

 

Bone head move. If there was going to be any resurgence, it would have been with Montreal- but not sure he could handle the glare there. 

 

I liked the player back in the day, but now I know that he was the wing-man to St Louis and not the other way around. 

[Vanflyer]

What you hope for from this guy is a 20 goal, 50 point effort on the season - because $4.5M is right around what a 20/50 guy gets in this league.

 

I get that and agree. He is off that mark by a bit. Yet, what is really alarming to me is his 5-on-5 play. I don't know if its because he is on the wing or what, but he is an abysmal 5-on-5 hockey player. The sad part for me is that he has skill and size. There is just something wrong with whats between his ears and chest. 

[radoran]

I liked the player back in the day, but now I know that he was the wing-man to St Louis and not the other way around.

 

I liked him, too. He had four consecutive 30+ goal seasons and then hit 52 and 40. Then 29 and down to the 20-25 level ever since.

 

There was a reason MSL won the Hart and VLC didn't.

 

 

I get that and agree. He is off that mark by a bit. Yet, what is really alarming to me is his 5-on-5 play. I don't know if its because he is on the wing or what, but he is an abysmal 5-on-5 hockey player. The sad part for me is that he has skill and size. There is just something wrong with whats between his ears and chest. 

 

VLC used his size and his frame to great advantage, but with injury he has just lost the ability to do that as effectively and, quite frankly, his "hockey player" mentality of "I'm better on the ice than off of it" hasn't been good for him - or the teams he's played for over the past few years...

[Vanflyer]

I liked him, too. He had four consecutive 30+ goal seasons and then hit 52 and 40. Then 29 and down to the 20-25 level ever since.

 

Yup. Given that (and take this with a grain of salt), he has only been a plus player twice in his career. Granted he has played on some lousy tampa squads, but I would expect more- particularly given the production you listed. 

 

It tells me he is just not a 200feet hockey player. 

[mojo1917]

So with VLC back at the pivot he had 13 + minutes of largely effective ice time... I think moving him down and back to center was a great move. I don't want my 4 th line center making 4.5 million , but putting him with Rinaldo and Hall helps hide his disinterest in back checking , while allowing that unit to actually possess and cycle the puck with the threat of having a sniper on the ice with the energy guys. VLC may be washed up but I think chief found a place where he can hide/be somewhat effective.

[flyerrod]

So with VLC back at the pivot he had 13 + minutes of largely effective ice time... I think moving him down and back to center was a great move. I don't want my 4 th line center making 4.5 million , but putting him with Rinaldo and Hall helps hide his disinterest in back checking , while allowing that unit to actually possess and cycle the puck with the threat of having a sniper on the ice with the energy guys. VLC may be washed up but I think chief found a place where he can hide/be somewhat effective.

If the 4th line center is getting 13 plus minutes a game, can you really call that a 4th line center? I mean  Schenn playing the 2nd line center only played 10:52. It helps the entire team by balancing the time and not having players(centers and wingers) logging 20 plus minutes a game. The whole demoted to 4th line center should not apply in this case.

[doom88]

If the 4th line center is getting 13 plus minutes a game, can you really call that a 4th line center? I mean Schenn playing the 2nd line center only played 10:52. It helps the entire team by balancing the time and not having players(centers and wingers) logging 20 plus minutes a game. The whole demoted to 4th line center should not apply in this case.

Exactly, but, bear in mind VLC gets PP time too.

[PhilsFanDrew]

The Flyers have also been (knock on wood) healthy down the middle this season.  In fact out of all the centers he has been the one that has missed the most time due to injury.   Also interesting to note that I heard on the broadcast the other night that Mike Richards is currently centering the 4th line in LA.   To me that should be very concerning.   Lecavalier has 10 less points than Richards but in 14 less games played than Mike.    Also interesting for as good as everyone claims Richards to be defensively he is a -5 on a team that is very defense oriented.   I'm not suggesting VLC is earning or living up to his salary most nights, just simply pointing out it could be worse.   While Mike Richards plays hard and does a lot of good little things when you make as much money as he does he needs to produce and it hasn't been there since he joined the Kings.

Edited March 29, 2014 by PhilsFanDrew

[radoran]

Well, I think we can say that this move has certainly paid dividends for the Flyers.

 

Having a $4.5M "fourth line center" isn't ideal in a capped league, but I think it's clear that the talent level the VLC still possesses is ahead of most of the talent he's going to be facing on the ice in this role.

 

He seems rejuvenated - whether from playing his "natural position" or from the kick in the pants or both. And I think he gives the "fourth" line an extra scoring threat.

 

Might also get a few extra minutes for Rinaldo and Hall, who have been pretty strong in their games since the switch as well.

 

If nothing else, I actually noticed VLC on the ice in the past two games - and in a good way.

 

Great depth for this team and they can roll lines. Could be a real benefit in the playoffs.

[off_the_post]

I know BM call's VLC a power play specialist but I don't see it. I think using him on the 5-3 set up is a waste. I would much rather leave the PP lines alone. Anybody know where to access the 5-3 stats for this year? I don't recall having a worse 5-3 PP and I point the finger at VLC.

 

http://www.csnphilly.com/hockey-philadelphia-flyers/flyers-notes-5-3-power-play-fails-again so the answer to my question was written today by Sarah Baicker.  The 5 on 3 is 2 for 14.  She even indicates that the total time played 5 on 3 is 10:50.  In almost 11 minutes of 5 on 3 how can you only score 2 goals? 

 

And back to VLC specifically. He has played 2 of his best games as a flyer on the "4th" line as already indicated by others.

[PhilsFanDrew]

Well, I think we can say that this move has certainly paid dividends for the Flyers.

 

Having a $4.5M "fourth line center" isn't ideal in a capped league, but I think it's clear that the talent level the VLC still possesses is ahead of most of the talent he's going to be facing on the ice in this role.

 

He seems rejuvenated - whether from playing his "natural position" or from the kick in the pants or both. And I think he gives the "fourth" line an extra scoring threat.

 

Might also get a few extra minutes for Rinaldo and Hall, who have been pretty strong in their games since the switch as well.

 

If nothing else, I actually noticed VLC on the ice in the past two games - and in a good way.

 

Great depth for this team and they can roll lines. Could be a real benefit in the playoffs.

 

I think as long as the Flyers can continue to find diamond in the rough forwards a la Raffl and Read and pay them pennies on the dollar they can afford Lecavalier's salary because they are saving money elsewhere.  Like you said the benefit with Lecavalier's offensive talent on the 4th line is that he won't draw the shut down forwards from the opposition which should give him some chances.  

[fanaticV3.0]

Well, I think we can say that this move has certainly paid dividends for the Flyers.

 

Having a $4.5M "fourth line center" isn't ideal in a capped league, but I think it's clear that the talent level the VLC still possesses is ahead of most of the talent he's going to be facing on the ice in this role.

 

He seems rejuvenated - whether from playing his "natural position" or from the kick in the pants or both. And I think he gives the "fourth" line an extra scoring threat.

 

Might also get a few extra minutes for Rinaldo and Hall, who have been pretty strong in their games since the switch as well.

 

If nothing else, I actually noticed VLC on the ice in the past two games - and in a good way.

 

Great depth for this team and they can roll lines. Could be a real benefit in the playoffs.

 

Well, I think we can say that this move has certainly paid dividends for the Flyers.

 

Having a $4.5M "fourth line center" isn't ideal in a capped league, but I think it's clear that the talent level the VLC still possesses is ahead of most of the talent he's going to be facing on the ice in this role.

 

He seems rejuvenated - whether from playing his "natural position" or from the kick in the pants or both. And I think he gives the "fourth" line an extra scoring threat.

 

Might also get a few extra minutes for Rinaldo and Hall, who have been pretty strong in their games since the switch as well.

 

If nothing else, I actually noticed VLC on the ice in the past two games - and in a good way.

 

Great depth for this team and they can roll lines. Could be a real benefit in the playoffs.

 

I think it was a wake up call for him, but I don't know if the 4th line is a legitimate long term option for him. Playing with 4th liners is not going to help his game over the long run and 2 of his last three goals were not because he played on the 4th. The one in the Boston game was on the PP and his 2nd goal in yesterday's game came on assists from Voracek and Timonen; so it was either PP again or he wasn't on the 4th. I'm ok with him playing on the 4th, but only if he's got more than Rinaldo and Hall to work with (even if that occasionally means throwing someone else on the 4th with him).

[radoran]

They basically need to sign two Fs, two Ds and a backup G for next season. They've got about $11M open rightnow (capgeek, $71M cap) and then Pronger's money once he goes on LTIR again (happens every year).

 

As such, VLC's contract isn't such an anchor.

 

I think it was a wake up call for him, but I don't know if the 4th line is a legitimate long term option for him. Playing with 4th liners is not going to help his game over the long run and 2 of his last three goals were not because he played on the 4th. The one in the Boston game was on the PP and his 2nd goal in yesterday's game came on assists from Voracek and Timonen; so it was either PP again or he wasn't on the 4th. I'm ok with him playing on the 4th, but only if he's got more than Rinaldo and Hall to work with (even if that occasionally means throwing someone else on the 4th with him).

 

Agreed two of the three goals weren't "fourth line" goals, but I do see something of more jump in his play at the moment. He's really stepping up both on the fourth line and in his special teams opportunities.

 

Getting a little more talent on the fourth wouldn't be an awful turn of events, but I do think he is opening up ice for Hall and Rinaldo just by being there which gives them some more latitude do freelance (a la Rinaldo/Iginla).

 

I wouldn't mess with it this season - especially as it seems to be working. And having that extra depth in the playoffs could be real useful.

[fanaticV3.0]

They basically need to sign two Fs, two Ds and a backup G for next season. They've got about $11M open rightnow (capgeek, $71M cap) and then Pronger's money once he goes on LTIR again (happens every year).

 

As such, VLC's contract isn't such an anchor.

 

 

Agreed two of the three goals weren't "fourth line" goals, but I do see something of more jump in his play at the moment. He's really stepping up both on the fourth line and in his special teams opportunities.

 

Getting a little more talent on the fourth wouldn't be an awful turn of events, but I do think he is opening up ice for Hall and Rinaldo just by being there which gives them some more latitude do freelance (a la Rinaldo/Iginla).

 

I wouldn't mess with it this season - especially as it seems to be working. And having that extra depth in the playoffs could be real useful.

 

Oh he's definitely look better. That can't be disputed by even his harshest critics. And I'm more than ok with outside the box thinking. I don't think it happens often enough. I have no problem with him on the 4th and special teams. I'm just concerned that play with those two most of the time doesn't help. But if his special teams play can make up for that, so bet it. I love the match up problems it creates.