AndyS Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Raffl, strangely, was an RFA. I'm guessing because of his age. Tagging rule just means that they have to fit all committed salaries next year under the current cap number, not the projected 71 million number, until the new cap becomes official. ie, you treat next year's cap like it's exactly the same as this year - giving the Flyers a little under $5 million in "tagging room" for next year. They'll have the cap space when Downie is off the roster this offseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doom88 Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 They'll have the cap space when Downie is off the roster this offseason.He has to sign elsewhere before that soft cap hit goes away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyS Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 If they don't re-sign Schenn to a multi-year extension, they're nuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunatic Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 If they don't re-sign Schenn to a multi-year extension, they're nuts.Schenn for number one pick Ekblatt? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 The RFA compensation $3.3-$5M is a 1st and a 3rd (or was, might be slightly higher). I gotta imagine the Flyers match up to there.Someone offers $5M+ do you take the 1/2/3?Interesting conundrum.Basically, I don't think he gets a sheet for more than $5M and that he's a Flyer next season (barring trade).I'd take the picks at that point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doom88 Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 I'd take the picks at that pointEven if you have reason to believe those picks are in the second half of the round? You're not trading that to get Schenn, nor drafting him there in any likelihood. I match until the money is stupid short and long term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Even if you have reason to believe those picks are in the second half of the round? You're not trading that to get Schenn, nor drafting him there in any likelihood. I match until the money is stupid short and long term.For the 2015 draft I would. Plus I'd have second line center more than covered. I'm not looking to go out of my way to lose him, mind you. But if someone were to offer sheet for that much, I take the picks and run Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Doing the math, then - they have about $4.5M ($4,575,644) including Pronger ($64.1M cap, $59.5M NY Payroll). Where does that leave signing macdaddy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Where does that leave signing macdaddy? Well, that's the issue - they don't have the cash under the cap right now to sign both before they become FA. As I said in the Ronald thread, if they can get MacDonald signed under that number - and I lay out why giving him upwards of $4.5M is more than a little steep - then get it done before the FA period because Schenn is a RFA and MacDonald a UFA. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 As I said in the Ronald thread, if they can get MacDonald signed under that number - and I lay out why giving him upwards of $4.5M is more than a little steep - then get it done before the FA period because Schenn is a RFA and MacDonald a UFA. I will have to go look for that thread. Here is the list of players currently making 4.5 M: http://www.capgeek.com/comparables/?player_id=747 The thing is that MacDaddy has only made 550K a year his ENTIRE career (7 years). The last couple of years in NY, he has been asked to play all situations and 24 minutes a night. He is playing 20 minutes a night for the flyers and his production is better than Couburn this year (who makes 4.5). He is going to get paid this year and it will be for 4.5M or more. Maybe he will give a discount to Philly, but not much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 I will have to go look for that thread. Here is the list of players currently making 4.5 M: http://www.capgeek.com/comparables/?player_id=747 The thing is that MacDaddy has only made 550K a year his ENTIRE career (7 years). The last couple of years in NY, he has been asked to play all situations and 24 minutes a night. He is playing 20 minutes a night for the flyers and his production is better than Couburn this year (who makes 4.5). He is going to get paid this year and it will be for 4.5M or more. Maybe he will give a discount to Philly, but not much. It's the "Re-Signing MacDonald" Thread MacDonald has hit 25 points in his career - twice. He is a career minus player. He has one (1) point in nine games as a Flyer. His one point as a Flyer represents his second 25-point season. Any GM that signs him solely based upon "this season" is, quite frankly, a fool - so, I see your point about worrying about what Homer might do . Even playing "all situations" for an Islanders team that had Tavares, Okposo and Vanek on the PP he managed all of 11 PPP as an Isle this season. He's a second-pairing defenseman who is defensively responsible and isn't afraid to carry the puck a little bit. I really don't see him "on par" with m/any of the guys on that capgeek page. Look at, say, a Jack Johnson (also 27) - more points, more hits, 115 blocks - $4.3M cap hit. Johnson is signed at that number for four more years. "Most" would say that Johnson's "upside" still has value. I simply don't see MacDonald as a guy who "deserves" a 10x hike in pay. I see him as a guy who should make more than Grossmann. He may get it - and we'll likely be talking in two years about how overpaid he is and what a bad signing it was and why do they have four more years on it with a NMC? To wit, your point that Coburn is overpaid is valid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 He's a second-pairing defenseman who is defensively responsible and isn't afraid to carry the puck a little bit. I really don't see him "on par" with m/any of the guys on that capgeek page. Look at, say, a Jack Johnson (also 27) - more points, more hits, 115 blocks - $4.3M cap hit. Johnson is signed at that number for four more years. "Most" would say that Johnson's "upside" still has value. I simply don't see MacDonald as a guy who "deserves" a 10x hike in pay. I see him as a guy who should make more than Grossmann. I think Jack Johnson is a GREAT example. MacD's numbers nearly on par to his. The difference, Jack had a good agent and was a high first round pick. His current contract was signed on the promise he would be a stud (by LA). Not on anything he accomplished (outside of his Collegiate days at Michigan). I don't than Mac is a 5m dman. But if Couburn is making 4.5m a year, why not MacD. Especially if he elevates Luke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Jack had a good agent and was a high first round pick. His current contract was signed on the promise he would be a stud Right, and he's still at $4.3M cap hit. But if Couburn is making 4.5m a year, why not MacD. Well, earlier in this very thread I did specifically say I lay out why giving him upwards of $4.5M is more than a little steep So, $4.5M is about right where I would put him, preferably a little lower but that's not the way the puck drops these days given inflation. Essentially, about exactly at Jack Johnson levels. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doom88 Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 For the 2015 draft I would. Plus I'd have second line center more than covered. I'm not looking to go out of my way to lose him, mind you. But if someone were to offer sheet for that much, I take the picks and runMan, I don't know. It's the NHL draft, not the NFL. Big difference in forecasting talent, especially after the top five picks. I see your point though. Do you think it's the draft of the decade? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Man, I don't know. It's the NHL draft, not the NFL. Big difference in forecasting talent, especially after the top five picks. I see your point though. Do you think it's the draft of the decade? To add to the conversation... I do think that if, for example, it's Nashville giving you the picks and they could very well be Top 10 (they would be this year) in each round that's one thing. If it's Detroit and, as you say, they are bottom half - another entirely. Also the whole same Conference thing (with Detroit, for example). Let's just step back and also acknowledge that we're a long way from an offer sheet at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doom88 Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 I hope you're right radoran. I just know the Flyers GMs have pissed off a few guys in the past... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 I hope you're right radoran. I just know the Flyers GMs have pissed off a few guys in the past... Preach it, brother! I don't see them letting Schenn go unless someone offers something stupid either in sheet or trade, and even then they're likely to match just out of spite. Schenn is the new Sutter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 I hope you're right radoran. I just know the Flyers GMs have pissed off a few guys in the past... They offersheeted Kesler, what...8 years ago? What's Vancouver waiting for? Gave Gratton one in 97...still waiting for the Bolts. The Rangers put an offer out to Sakic the same year....nothing revenge-wise there. The Canes signed Fedorov to one....Detroit never offershat a Cane The Oilers sent one to Vanek and Buffalo hasn't done squat about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Man, I don't know. It's the NHL draft, not the NFL. Big difference in forecasting talent, especially after the top five picks. I see your point though. Do you think it's the draft of the decade?Honestly doom, I'm not remotely an authority on it and couldn't begin to judge the draft intelligently. But I'm told by folks who correctly (at least so far) predicted last year's draft that it is a pretty deep draft. Deep enough that they were upset about the second round pick in the Macdonald deal. For the most part, I'm kind of with you in being skeptical of predicting pedigree of 16 & 17 year old. But people like flyercanuck and jammer have been proven right on drafts repeatedly so I'm kind of learning to trust their call on these things. (don't tell them I said that. I'll deny it) That said, i also share your hesitation to let a known commodity (albeit one that is still developing) just walk in favor of a prospect and some unknown picks. But if we're talking about $5.5M or more for a second line center who has his moments but also is inconsistent, I may try my luck at the craps table. It's definitely a roll of the dice going my way. I'm not sure that kind of money for 4-5 years isn't a roll of the dice too, though. Hard to say which has the better odds. For me, I think I'd put my chips in Laughton and the picks. Who knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doom88 Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Yeah, but the kid is only 22. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Yeah, but the kid is only 22.I hear you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 I hope you're right radoran. I just know the Flyers GMs Clarke has pissed off a few guys in the past... Fixed it for you. I don't think the offer sheet to Weber was as bad as the Kessler one. Holmgren and Poile have been long time friends. That was just business. Also, the whole taboo of not being able to do an offer sheet is BS in my mind. Why have it in the rules if you aren't supposed to do it? I get it in a non-cap world. But in a cap world, I call BS. As a GM, your job is to put your team in the best position to win. If you can not use all the tools in the tool kit to accomplish that, than WTF? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doom88 Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 Diplomacy I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 Diplomacy I suppose. I get that and the whole "networking" and glad handing thing. But the whole stigma about "that Mfer gm tried to steal one of my players" is bunk to me. If a team (GM) is not managing their finances correctly and unable to sign a player / or another team is able to make a deal attractive to a player, then why not? There is compensation for that! Had the Flyers signed Weber, Nashville would have received a boatload of draft picks in return. So it is not like you are poaching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 Also, the whole taboo of not being able to do an offer sheet is BS in my mind. Why have it in the rules if you aren't supposed to do it?I get it in a non-cap world. But in a cap world, I call BS. As a GM, your job is to put your team in the best position to win. If you can not use all the tools in the tool kit to accomplish that, than WTF? I get that and the whole "networking" and glad handing thing. But the whole stigma about "that Mfer gm tried to steal one of my players" is bunk to me. If a team (GM) is not managing their finances correctly and unable to sign a player / or another team is able to make a deal attractive to a player, then why not? There is compensation for that! Had the Flyers signed Weber, Nashville would have received a boatload of draft picks in return. So it is not like you are poaching. Could not agree more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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