JackStraw Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 I won't speak for anyone else but for now i'd insert him in place of Grossmann for now and would leave Amac and Schenn alone for now....but grossman whom has even been in a walking boot when not in a game should sit and rest. Insert Gus.....why not they have lost 2 straight and need this game in Boston put the more mobile Gus in. The problem with putting Gus in for Grossman is that then you have a pair with Gus and Streit, two relatively soft d-men. Berube has said he doesn't want that. He wants one mobile guy and one guy who clears the crease. Gus is just the odd man out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 I agree Jack... I am in the minority here but I just dont see Gus being a top 4 dman and at best see him as a 5th/6th - at best. Frankly, I never rated him as high as most people. MacDonald is much better and Gus has not made much of the opportunity he was given. He is already 25 years old and I am not hanging onto hope that he will become a core/everyday player. I don't see Gus being part of the Flyers future. Ghost has his sklil set and is younger and a bit bigger. Hagg will also bring more offense. I would expect to see at least one, if not both, of them on the Flyers the year after next year at the latest. It wouldn't surprise me if Gus signs elsewhere as a RFA after this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 I don't see Gus being part of the Flyers future. Ghost has his sklil set and is younger and a bit bigger. Hagg will also bring more offense. I would expect to see at least one, if not both, of them on the Flyers the year after next year at the latest. It wouldn't surprise me if Gus signs elsewhere as a RFA after this season.I just don't see the Flyers "developing" a home grown defenseman - no matter who it is. With a "win now" phillyosophy, there is little room to accept the growing pains a young defenceman almost always experiences.Going back through the drafts, even guys they drafted who were or are established NHLers didn't do it in Philadelphia: http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00007439.htmlEven with that caveat, there simply aren't a lot of defencemen at all over the past 20+ years.They are much more likely to wait for guys to go through growing pains with other teams and then trade for and/or sign them.Morin could be an exception, given their fascination with his size and Pronger's endorsement. But they are still committed to four of six spots for at least the next two years and are apparently close to signing MacDonald for at least that length. Trades, injury, yes can happen.I'll be seeing Gotstobehere play for the first time tomorrow in the NCAA tournament - looking forward to it.Hagg will be writing his own verse of Billy Joel's "Allentown" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Gus is just the odd man out. Well this doesn't look good and certainly can't help land Folin they way they are already treating a fellow Swede and college free agent defenseman signee right??? Surely you can't spin that into a positive light. But try please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Well this doesn't look good and certainly can't help land Folin they way they are already treating a fellow Swede and college free agent defenseman signee right??? Surely you can't spin that into a positive light. But try please. Folin is a completely different case. He's 6'3 200+ lbs, is mainly a defensive d-man but one that skates and moves the puck well and can provide some offense. Folin, if he can make the jump to the NHL, makes Grossman completely expendable. I doubt Folin would worry about what happens with Gus when he makes his decision. And I'm sure he knows that the Flyers just drafted another of his countrymen in Hagg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 I just don't see the Flyers "developing" a home grown defenseman - no matter who it is. With a "win now" phillyosophy, there is little room to accept the growing pains a young defenceman almost always experiences.Going back through the drafts, even guys they drafted who were or are established NHLers didn't do it in Philadelphia: http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00007439.htmlEven with that caveat, there simply aren't a lot of defencemen at all over the past 20+ years.They are much more likely to wait for guys to go through growing pains with other teams and then trade for and/or sign them.Morin could be an exception, given their fascination with his size and Pronger's endorsement. But they are still committed to four of six spots for at least the next two years and are apparently close to signing MacDonald for at least that length. Trades, injury, yes can happen.I'll be seeing Gotstobehere play for the first time tomorrow in the NCAA tournament - looking forward to it.Hagg will be writing his own verse of Billy Joel's "Allentown" We'll see. I think they're committed to giving at least some of these young guys a chance. They've been doing it the other way for umpteen hundred years now and it hasn't worked. I wouldn't rule out a trade around draft day for a defenseman, or another free agent signing, but I don't think either would be a Pronger type situation where they sell the farm on a wing and a prayer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Well this doesn't look good and certainly can't help land Folin they way they are already treating a fellow Swede and college free agent defenseman signee right??? Surely you can't spin that into a positive light. But try please. Holmgren : Hello Mr. Folin, how would you like to take a fellow Swede and college free agent signees' spot on our roster? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doom88 Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Gus just isn't good enough. He's another Bartilus. I don't want Grossmann in the lineup either, but you CANNOT go small against Boston. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 (edited) I doubt Folin would worry about what happens with Gus when he makes his decision Lets hope not because Gus has been in and out the lineup so much i can't see how they expect him to get in a rhythm, yanked around so much...but none the less hope Flyer s can land him. The one guy on broadstreet compared his game to OEL.....that i like. Edited March 27, 2014 by OccamsRazor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 (edited) Hello Mr. Folin, how would you like to take a fellow Swede and college free agent signees' spot on our roster? Well what a bout his rebuttal... "Hell no i'm young i'm not coming there to play to have my every mistake magnified constantly and then benched and in and out of the lineup while these veteran Dmen you have making 4 or 5 times my salary do the same damn stupid schitt, and yet nothing is done to them. They still get to skate every game turning the puck over and over lose their men and their defensive responsibilities and yet all i have to hear is why does the young guy make a mistake!!!!" "Hell no i pass i'm going to Detroit!" SLAM down goes the phone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Edited March 28, 2014 by OccamsRazor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doom88 Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Homer: Have I mentioned our lively Center City scene? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 We'll see. I think they're committed to giving at least some of these young guys a chance. They've been doing it the other way for umpteen hundred years now and it hasn't worked. I wouldn't rule out a trade around draft day for a defenseman, or another free agent signing, but I don't think either would be a Pronger type situation where they sell the farm on a wing and a prayer. Well, seeing is believing It's just that with the contract situation they have now - yes, things can happen - these guys are still 2 years away on the inside. Which might be for the best - to allow them to grow under the radar before coming up. I hope that's what's happening - assuming that none of the kids blow the doors off in whatever cups of coffee they get. Morin was a long-term project from the moment he was signed - again, tons of potential. Hagg we've heard good things about and will see what happens in Adirondack at least to start. Gotstobehere was somewhat under the radar before exploding into Hobey Baker finalist. I actually believe the Baker award - and even consideration - holds more value today than perhaps it ever has in terms of NHL potential. There are lots of families, especially American families, who just wouldn't want to go into the CHL system. They want them to go to high school and then college and "get an education" rather than putting all of the eggs in the hockey basket. That's just an honest perception - rightly or wrongly. So there's a lot of talent that is coming of age of parents of the Miracle generation that are in the college system. And there are Americans - like JVR for example - who are just more comfortable in the college environment. They all have very strong potential and I hope that they do pan out and become effective NHL players. But right now they are just potential and the Flyers are committed to at least five players (and whether or not they re-sign Timonen, IMO they're not going to go with Streit as their #1 guy for long) - those are just the facts of the situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 @radoran - if you're suggesting that the Flyers could go for another Streit-type signing, I wouldn't disagree with that. When Timonen retires it's unlikely there will be someone in the system that's ready to step into that #1 role. Streit might fill it for one year, maybe two, depending on if that happens next year or the year after. So yes, they may feel they need to go out and get someone. But I think (hope) it would be another stopgap signing to allow Morin/Hagg/whomever to develop. Unless they don't believe that any of the young guys are a potential #1, in which case all bets are off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 @JackStraw Here is a list of potential UFA d-men for 2014....don't really see a guy who fits your bill. I'd be interested in Markov on a 1 or 2 year deal, but I have a feeling he will be asking for 3-4....and with his injury history, I don't really recommend it. On a one or two year deal, he would be a great addition. That rocket he has from the point would come in mighty handy. I'd at least kick the tires on this one. http://www.capgeek.com/ufa-finder/?position_id=D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaGreatGazoo Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 I agree with many of the points made on this thread, I'm just too lazy to point them out. I didn't see where anyone referenced this tweet from Meltzer--granted everyone views players differently, so YMMV. I think MacDonald has played very well, I don't care about the Corsi numbers, etc. He makes the blue line better, settles Schenn down, makes solid outlet passes, and can skate the puck out of trouble. ALL things needed by this D group. If this is the perception of MacDonald, there is no way in hell I pay him more than $4.5/year. Bill Meltzer @billmeltzer 22hMost NHL scouts I've spoken with think MacDonald is a tremendous 4 and a reasonable 3. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Well what a bout his rebuttal... "Hell no i'm young i'm not coming there to play to have my every mistake magnified constantly and then benched and in and out of the lineup while these veteran Dmen you have making 4 or 5 times my salary do the same damn stupid schitt, and yet nothing is done to them. They still get to skate every game turning the puck over and over lose their men and their defensive responsibilities and yet all i have to hear is why does the young guy make a mistake!!!!" "Hell no i pass i'm going to Detroit!" SLAM down goes the phone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think professional athletes (or those looking to become one) realize they have to step over others (whether they are fellow countrymen or not) to reach their dream. Do you think Canadians, or Americans refuse opportunities to play on an NHL franchise because a fellow countrymen couldn't cut it there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 @jammer2 - yeah, I've looked through that list and there isn't really anyone very enticing. Niskanen looks to be the biggest free agent prize there and I'm not sure he's really a #1. I could see them convincing Timonen to stick around for another year, presumably at a lower rate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted March 29, 2014 Author Share Posted March 29, 2014 Presented for discussion purposes, an "analysis" of MacDonald's 10 Flyer games by a guy who really, really seems to like Gustafsson: Interesting. I am a stats guy too. I guess for me (and I don't get to watch all the games, but have seen many since his acquisition), I rarely curse on his play and often say "nice break out pass". In that same breath, I also find myself cursing less about L. Schenn. Looking at that link I guess makes me look stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted March 29, 2014 Author Share Posted March 29, 2014 The problem with putting Gus in for Grossman is that then you have a pair with Gus and Streit, two relatively soft d-men. Berube has said he doesn't want that. He wants one mobile guy and one guy who clears the crease. Gus is just the odd man out. Giroux was actually gushing a bit about Grossman today in the post game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 Interesting. I am a stats guy too. I guess for me (and I don't get to watch all the games, but have seen many since his acquisition), I rarely curse on his play and often say "nice break out pass". In that same breath, I also find myself cursing less about L. Schenn. Looking at that link I guess makes me look stupid. I've seen a lot of things I like in the player - but there have been a few hiccoughs lately. We are still dealing with a terribly short period of observation (for most of us) - ten games. I've been happy enough to begin a consideration of re-signing at the right number, but there remains no rush to do so and still some significant hockey to be played. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted March 29, 2014 Author Share Posted March 29, 2014 We are still dealing with a terribly short period of observation (for most of us) - ten games. I've been happy enough to begin a consideration of re-signing at the right number, but there remains no rush to do so and still some significant hockey to be played. The playoffs should really be the telltale. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 The playoffs should really be the telltale. Agree...though his game doesn't look like he'd disappear come playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted March 30, 2014 Author Share Posted March 30, 2014 Agree...though his game doesn't look like he'd disappear come playoffs. I am more interested in seeing if he can elevate his game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 @Vanflyer Ok, gotcha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanaticV3.0 Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Some of the numbers being thrown around on this thread are obscene. I'm with whoever said $4.5 tops (I think it was rad). And by tops I mean I'm trying my damnedest not to pay that much. I like the guy, but he's not worth that kind of money. When you get in the $4-6 mil range, I want a defenseman who straightens things out back and there and he's not the impact player they need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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