Hart Trophy

[radoran]

Vinny also brings a certain something to the locker room

 

Nachos? Is it Nachos?

 

[Polaris922]

The voting is done prior to the playoffs. Just saying. 

 

The ballots are sent out.. but the actual voting isn't completed for a few weeks from what I can find to read about it.  I guess till it's all said and done.  

[jammer2]

That said, let's not talk about trophies for a few more weeks ok? I'm way too superstitious.

 

 

 I think the time is now to start thinking about it. G is in a dead heat with 4-6 others stars, identifying them, watching them gives us a historical perspective if G got robbed, or maybe even if a competitor got robbed. Plus, this will be the last year for about 5 or 6 that anyone other than Stamkos gets it. So, it well could end up being a little blip on the radar if time, but it's a blip I wanna get to know better...and how it evolved and came to be.

[Polaris922]

@jammer2

 

Stamkos isn't a playmaker...  I don't know that he's going to do so well without a puck moving guy like St.Louis at his side.  

[ruxpin]

Vinny also brings a certain something to the locker room.

Sleeping pills?

[ruxpin]

Nachos? Is it Nachos?

Damn

[ruxpin]

I think Giroux probably deserves to be a finalist but I think this is Crosby's to lose.

We can say "if only not for the slow start..." but there WAS the show start. And it was dreadful.

And Crosby had been good gate to gate. I know the Pens have malkin, but this year more than most, I don't think Malkin carries them if Crosby goes down. Not for any significant time.

With the year Crosby has had and the adversity that team has had with the injuries and a bobblehead coach, you almost have to give it to him.

[ruxpin]

And, by the way, Giroux isn't even the MVP on the Flyers.

That title belongs to Steve Downie.

How many times do we need to be told that HE turned the season around completely by himself. Downie is clearly the MVP.

(Bazinga)

[Vanflyer]

And Crosby had been good gate to gate. I know the Pens have malkin, but this year more than most, I don't think Malkin carries them if Crosby goes down. Not for any significant time.

With the year Crosby has had and the adversity that team has had with the injuries and a bobblehead coach, you almost have to give it to him.

 

My vote is: 

 

1) Crosby

 

2) Getzlaf

 

3) Giroux

[Vanflyer]

And, by the way, Giroux isn't even the MVP on the Flyers.

That title belongs to Steve Downie.

How many times do we need to be told that HE turned the season around completely by himself. Downie is clearly the MVP.

(Bazinga)

 

Hmm- 

 

The whipping post: 

 

Vinny: 55 gp, 15 g / 18 a team leading -16 (not a effing sniff of anyone to come close to that), 4.5M salary, 15m pg toi

 

Downie: 47gp, 3g / 14 a -1, 2.6M salary at 14m toi a game

 

 

 

 

Downie: 

[ruxpin]

My vote is:

1) Crosby

2) Getzlaf

3) Giroux

No love for Emery?

[ruxpin]

Hmm-

The whipping post:

Vinny: 55 gp, 15 g / 18 a team leading -16 (not a effing sniff of anyone to come close to that), 4.5M salary, 15m pg toi

Downie: 47gp, 3g / 14 a -1, 2.6M salary at 14m toi a game

Downie:

Should I put you down as a vote for Downie then?

If not, it almost has to be McGinn

[ruxpin]

My vote is:

1) Crosby

2) Getzlaf

3) Giroux

Seriously, I think that's the way mine goes.

[flyercanuck]

@jammer2

 

Stamkos isn't a playmaker...  I don't know that he's going to do so well without a puck moving guy like St.Louis at his side.  

 

Ya, he only had a hattrick last night...he's pretty much useless without MSL. Stamkos is right up there with Giroux, Toews, Tavares, Getzlaf, Malkin as a great player.

 

 

While I'm not agreeing that Stamkos is going to win every year,I do think he has a Hart or two coming his way. And Jonathan Drouin makes MSL expendable. (given that he wanted to be) Drouin and Stamkos are going to be absolute killer together.

[DaGreatGazoo]

Stamkos isn't a playmaker...  I don't know that he's going to do so well without a puck moving guy like St.Louis at his side.  

 

Score a hat trick half way through last night's game??  

 

***EDIT--@flyercanuck beat me to the smart ass reply.  Didn't notice initially***

Edited March 20, 2014 by DaGreatGazoo

[nossagog]

I think Giroux probably deserves to be a finalist but I think this is Crosby's to lose.

We can say "if only not for the slow start..." but there WAS the show start. And it was dreadful.

And Crosby had been good gate to gate. I know the Pens have malkin, but this year more than most, I don't think Malkin carries them if Crosby goes down. Not for any significant time.

With the year Crosby has had and the adversity that team has had with the injuries and a bobblehead coach, you almost have to give it to him.

I think Giroux is a great candidate for the Hart Trophy(Hold on one second, I think I just threw up in my mouth).   His leadership on this ice putting the Flyers in playoff position has been great.

 

The whole "if not for the slow start" thing can be tossed out the window based on Ovechkin last season where he basically was MIA for most of the first half of the season, went on a tear in the second half and took home the Hart.   I think the voters look at how a team made it to where they are at the end of the season, and not necessarily at the whole season from start to finish.

 

Based on that, you can make an easy argument for Giroux whose Flyers are climbing in the standings as he played better starting in December.

 

Will he win?  I don't think so.  For whatever reason, he has never been seen in the same category as Crosby, Ovechkin, Getzlaf or Teows.  Is it right, no, but there it is.   Its almost like the hesiman where you have to already have been considered for it at the beginning of the season to be able to win at the end.

 

If you'll excuse me, I need to go take a shower.

[radoran]

I think Giroux probably deserves to be a finalist but I think this is Crosby's to lose.

We can say "if only not for the slow start..." but there WAS the show start. And it was dreadful.

And Crosby had been good gate to gate. I know the Pens have malkin, but this year more than most, I don't think Malkin carries them if Crosby goes down. Not for any significant time.

With the year Crosby has had and the adversity that team has had with the injuries and a bobblehead coach, you almost have to give it to him.

 

Two time runner up for the Hart and the 2012 Hart itself, not to mention the Art Ross and Conn Smythe.

 

I'll just respectfully disagree.

 

Oh, wait, where's the fun in that?

 

NOPE, SORRY - YOU'RE WRONG!

 

[ruxpin]

Two time runner up for the Hart and the 2012 Hart itself, not to mention the Art Ross and Conn Smythe.

 

I'll just respectfully disagree.

 

Oh, wait, where's the fun in that?

 

NOPE, SORRY - YOU'RE WRONG!

 

 

 

Just for anyone else that might be reading, I'll repeat what you were responding to:  " I don't think Malkin carries them if Crosby goes down."

 

He has shown in the past that he can.  In addition to the points you listed, he did do a terrific job of leading the team in the season(s) that Crosby was struggling with his concussion(s).  

 

But I'm not referring to what Malkin has done in the past.  I do think he's a terrific player.  But this year and with this Pens' team I don't believe so (which is why the line before what you highlighted said, "this year more than most."

 

I think this year there is too many injuries and too much chaos for a Crosby-less Pens to succeed.  Malkin would do what he could, but I think the Pens would plummet without Crosby in the lineup.  Maybe Malkin steps up and becomes a monster in Crosby's absence and the team follows suit (a rallying cry similar to Ottawa last year).  I just think that this year, with all that's gone on, Crosby's candidacy for the Hart should be lessened by a "well, he also has Malkin" claim.  Maybe other years, but not this one.

[AndyS]

While there are certainly other worthy candidates (Crosby leading the way), I think its about time we start talking about Giroux as a Hart trophy finalist. He is just such an amazing player / leader. While I don't watch allot of other teams, he stirs the drink- so to speak, on this team. Given the abysmal start by the team and him, and the subsequent resurrection, I can not deny him as a legit candidate (even with my bipolar / biopic brain-eyes) .

 

If the Flyers stay on this hot streak, especially with the teams they are facing down the stretch, I think he will have to get some serious consideration. Can anyone name 3 other players who are clearly playing above his level right now?

 

Crosby? I'd say that's a push right now.  If G hadn't had that awful start to the season, he'd probably be leading the league in total points.

 

OV? Not a chance. Worst plus/minus I've ever seen from a superstar player. I'm not a Crosby fan, but he's 3X the layer that OV is. Easily.

 

Getzlaf? OK. Still, I'd call that about even. I would have no problem with Getzlaf winning the Hart. He is deserving.

 

I think it's a 3-horse race between Crosby, Getzlaf, and Giroux. And it's not unthinkable that Giroux wins it. The voters must know about how far this team has come since that terrible start, and most of that is because of #28, IMO.

[Polaris922]

Ya, he only had a hattrick last night...he's pretty much useless without MSL. Stamkos is right up there with Giroux, Toews, Tavares, Getzlaf, Malkin as a great player.

 

 

While I'm not agreeing that Stamkos is going to win every year,I do think he has a Hart or two coming his way. And Jonathan Drouin makes MSL expendable. (given that he wanted to be) Drouin and Stamkos are going to be absolute killer together.

 

 

Score a hat trick half way through last night's game??  

 

***EDIT--@flyercanuck beat me to the smart ass reply.  Didn't notice initially***

 

 

I knew these posts would follow.  I never said Stamkos was a scrub, just that he's much better with MSL than without.  MSL was the playmaker of the two.  Stamkos cried when MSL got traded and it wasn't over his cooking.  Now as Flyercanuck said, with Drouin coming up, they could be a potent duo just the same.  Once Drouin is ready.  Right now, Stamkos had Filpulla feeding him last night.  I respect Filpulla as a player, I just don't know that he's MSL caliber.  Don't forget now, MSL has been the scoring leader or at least in the race a few times in recent years, and you can't lose a guy like that and not have an impact on Stamkos' production.  

[Polaris922]

 

 

Crosby? I'd say that's a push right now.  If G hadn't had that awful start to the season, he'd probably be leading the league in total points.

 

 

 

Statistically that's not true.  Even giving G the benefit of the doubt for his scoring pace over the past 59 games, (1.20 ppg)  excluding the first 9 everybody says he was sucking in, he would be at 82 points.  That's IF he'd started as hot as he's been during that stretch, which leaves him nine points behind in the race.  

 

Sorry, but I've spent most of my life as a bubble buster   LOL 

[flyercanuck]

@Polaris922

 

 I know you weren't calling Stamkos a scrub. But the guy isn't just a goalscorer. This isn't Brett Hull, the guy can actually play a solid game of hockey.

 

 And Drouin is averaging over 2.3 ppg in Halifax...I think he's ready.

[ruxpin]

I knew these posts would follow. I never said Stamkos was a scrub, just that he's much better with MSL than without. MSL was the playmaker of the two. Stamkos cried when MSL got traded and it wasn't over his cooking. Now as Flyercanuck said, with Drouin coming up, they could be a potent duo just the same. Once Drouin is ready. Right now, Stamkos had Filpulla feeding him last night. I respect Filpulla as a player, I just don't know that he's MSL caliber. Don't forget now, MSL has been the scoring leader or at least in the race a few times in recent years, and you can't lose a guy like that and not have an impact on Stamkos' production.

I laughed when I saw he scored a hat trick. I knew you were going to get fileted with a bunch of see??? posts.

Your point has merit nonetheless.

[Vanflyer]

Seriously, I think that's the way mine goes.

 

I am pondering this more now and the last 11 games will tell. I am changing my order: 

 

1) Girioux

 

2) Getzlaf

 

3) Crosby

 

I know it is hard to put Crosby at number three since he is the Ross Trophy leader now, but when you look at it, Crosby has Malking and Getzlaf has Perry. There has not been a more meaningful player to their team since November, than Giroux. I am not just talking about production. 

 

For me, production matters of course, but I always  will ask my self if you remove "x" (insert player name) from the team, where would said team be? That is the definition of MVP to me. 

 

Its close all the way around. I think Crosby was the best player the first three months. While I don't get to watch him much, Getz has been consistent the whole year. What Giroux has done (put the team on his back) since November has been extraordinary to me. 

 

The lester b will tell the true tale of this. 

[Polaris922]

I am pondering this more now and the last 11 games will tell. I am changing my order:

1) Girioux

2) Getzlaf

3) Crosby

I know it is hard to put Crosby at number three since he is the Ross Trophy leader now, but when you look at it, Crosby has Malking and Getzlaf has Perry. There has not been a more meaningful player to their team since November, than Giroux. I am not just talking about production.

For me, production matters of course, but I always will ask my self if you remove "x" (insert player name) from the team, where would said team be? That is the definition of MVP to me.

Its close all the way around. I think Crosby was the best player the first three months. While I don't get to watch him much, Getz has been consistent the whole year. What Giroux has done (put the team on his back) since November has been extraordinary to me.

The lester b will tell the true tale of this.

While I understand your rationale, Malkin has been pretty bad this season. He's hurt the team a lot with stupid penalties and really only had two games of note since the Olympics. His last two before injuring his foot again.

Sadly the Olympic hangover we're suffering may have damaged Crosby's chances a little. We're not the only team struggling with it right now.

I just don't know if Giroux's play will overcome Crosby's huge points lead in the scoring race, and that gap is what makes him stand out for the Hart.