another reason I hate Crosby

[Vanflyer]

Wait and plaster Shirley later when she has the puck.

 

ding, ding, ding. We have a winner. 

[Polaris922]

@Vanflyer

And all the rest of you admitting Crosby did the right thing regardless of how much you hate him... Kudos!

As for the rest if you? Hypocrites!

[Polaris922]

In my day of playing (pee wee mind your), I would do exactly what Crosby did and say "we have your number" and skate away. Its a clean play- but sends the message that says "tit-for-tat". Its all about sticking up for your teammate. Would have been nice to see someone do that when Coots got drilled into the boards. THAT actually warranted immediate retaliation.

The Couturier hit was as much Couturier planting his skates as Orpik shoving him. Honestly, that same shove happens twenty times a game but the player being shoved usually glides full body into the boards because he's on skates. I watched that push a few times and noticed Couturier's skates don't move with him.

Officials called it right because of the result, but there's no intent to hurt him there.

[Adamflyers]

Maybe I am old school, but I would do exactly what Crosby did. Bartuzzo, no (because that was just stupid). It was a clean play- but if I am on the opposing team, I am going to give a "nudge" and say "keep your head up, pay backs mf'er". Its just part of the game.

I really didn't have a problem with that Cindy did. As I said, it has really become part of the game to give someone the business after clean hits, so Cindy did nothing out of the ordinary and it was not dirty. Bortuzzo was just a complete chump on that play. He took his reaction 5 levels too high and it put him deservedly in the box. Why get your stick up on a player that cleanly caught one of your guy? Go ahead and nudge and warn that you or one of your guys is next, but this reaction of having to attack or fight a player after delivering a clean hit is so ridiculous.

[murraycraven]

The Couturier hit was as much Couturier planting his skates as Orpik shoving him. Honestly, that same shove happens twenty times a game but the player being shoved usually glides full body into the boards because he's on skates. I watched that push a few times and noticed Couturier's skates don't move with him.

Officials called it right because of the result, but there's no intent to hurt him there.

 

 

I agree there was no intent to hurt but that should have been called as a penalty.  The problem is the league now punishes based on the result which is absolute BS.  A bad hit is a bad hit - no matter what the result was.  

[Vanflyer]

The Couturier hit was as much Couturier planting his skates as Orpik shoving him. Honestly, that same shove happens twenty times a game but the player being shoved usually glides full body into the boards because he's on skates. I watched that push a few times and noticed Couturier's skates don't move with him.

Officials called it right because of the result, but there's no intent to hurt him there.

 

We wont agree on this one. In todays NHL, there are two things:

 

1) If you see the numbers, you can not hit. 

 

2) If a player is 3 feet off the boards, you can not hit. 

 

I get what you are saying, and agree that both players have a responsibility in the play, but by the letter of the law, the attacking forward has a enormous accountability there. That is exactly the kind of play that the league is trying to do away with. If Coots has a broken jaw / nose or concussion, do you feel the same way? 

[Polaris922]

We wont agree on this one. In todays NHL, there are two things:

1) If you see the numbers, you can not hit.

2) If a player is 3 feet off the boards, you can not hit.

I get what you are saying, and agree that both players have a responsibility in the play, but by the letter of the law, the attacking forward has a enormous accountability there. That is exactly the kind of play that the league is trying to do away with. If Coots has a broken jaw / nose or concussion, do you feel the same way?

I have no problem with the 2 minute as Couturier was vulnerable. I don't think Orpik's one handed shove warrants the duck of the head and catapult launch Couturier made into the boards. Orpik should've gotten the two, but Couturier could just as easily gotten two for embellishing.

Sorry, history or not, that changes how I view Couturier. He's no Marchand, but now we see he'll add a little flair just like Giroux, Hartnell, Crosby and Malkin. The list goes on... It's just part of the game. Always has been.

[Vanflyer]

Sorry, history or not, that changes how I view Couturier.

 

No player is going to allow himself to fly into the dasher unwarranted just to draw a penalty. Particularly Coots. 

[B21]

No player is going to allow himself to fly into the dasher unwarranted just to draw a penalty. Particularly Coots. 

 

1) Sean Couturier is not above embellishing....

 

 

Hope they find the guy that shot him. The best part is, after his antics, he skates to the bench like nothing happened once the whistle was blown for the penalty.

 

2) Rule 41 - Boarding

 

41.1 Boarding – A boarding penalty shall be imposed on any player or goalkeeper who checks or pushes a defenseless opponent in such a manner that causes the opponent to hit or impact the boards violently in the boards. The severity of the penalty, based upon the impact with the boards, shall be at the discretion of the Referee.

 

There is an enormous amount of judgment involved in the application of this rule by the Referees. The onus is on the player applying the check to ensure his opponent is not in a defenseless position and if so, he must avoid or minimize the contact. However, in determining whether such contact could have been avoided, the circumstances of the check, including whether the opponent put himself in a vulnerable position immediately prior to or simultaneously with the check or whether the check was unavoidable can be considered. This balance must be considered by the Referees when applying this rule.

 

I'm guessing the referee didn't buy Couturier's antics.

[Polaris922]

No player is going to allow himself to fly into the dasher unwarranted just to draw a penalty. Particularly Coots.

Actually they do... And this play proves he's one of the many. Not tearing him up for it, he just is.

[Vanflyer]

I'm guessing the referee didn't buy Couturier's antics.

 

The play you posted warranted two penalties. Yet, the play we are discussing had no embellishment. Can we agree it should have been a penalty? 

[Polaris922]

The play you posted warranted two penalties. Yet, the play we are discussing had no embellishment. Can we agree it should have been a penalty?

I agree Orpik put himself in a position to get called. But I also think the refs could have very easily called Couturier for embellishment. It happens so fast I understand why they didn't, but I strongly affirm Couturier embellished.

[flyercanuck]

@Polaris922

 

 I could easily pull up 100 Crosby embellishment...heck out right phoney non fouls that are way worse than that. At least Couturier actually took a shoulder to the head there...which the league is trying to take out of the game..hence the penalty.. And we've all seen Letang do that head snap multiple times without even being touched.

 

 You're grasping there .

[Polaris922]

@Polaris922

I could easily pull up 100 Crosby embellishment...heck out right phoney non fouls that are way worse than that. At least Couturier actually took a shoulder to the head there...which the league is trying to take out of the game..hence the penalty.. And we've all seen Letang do that head snap multiple times without even being touched.

You're grasping there .

Shoulder to the head?? You on the same hit? Orpik shoving him with one hand from behind? Saturday?

For the record I included Crosby as someone who does it. As I did Giroux. There are many, as its always been part of the game. I didn't say Couturier is an Avery, just that it puts him in the same category of embellishers.

[Samifan]

The title of this thread would make a good book, "Reasons we Hate Sidney Crosby" 10,000 pages, no pictures: now available on Amazon.com for $9.99US/$13.99CDN

[flyercanuck]

@Polaris922

 

Sorry, that was B21 that posted the video. That was what I was referring to.

[B21]

The play you posted warranted two penalties. Yet, the play we are discussing had no embellishment. Can we agree it should have been a penalty? 

 

The Holland "hit" on Courturier? Yes - two penalties.  Roughing (Holland) and diving (Couturier).  Pointed out to show Couturier is not above embellishing like I feel he did on the Orpik hit. 

 

The Orpik hit on Couturier is a borderline boarding penalty at best.  The only reason we are talking about it is that another poster was trying to use it as an example that Orpik really is a dirty player (I think it migrated here from another thread).

 

I could go either way on the Orpik hit.  I definitely think Courturier did some acting to buy a call. 

 

Bottom line and main point - the Orpik hit on Couturie was not at all a dirty hit.

[B21]

@Polaris922

 

 I could easily pull up 100 Crosby embellishment...heck out right phoney non fouls that are way worse than that. At least Couturier actually took a shoulder to the head there...which the league is trying to take out of the game..hence the penalty.. And we've all seen Letang do that head snap multiple times without even being touched.

 

 You're grasping there .

 

B-b-b-b-b the Pens! 

 

Like I pointed out to Van - this really isn't about diving/embellishing.

 

Someone was using Orpik's hit on Couturier as an example that Orpik's a dirty player. 1) The hit was a borderline boarding call at best. 2) Couturier did act/embellish to get a call. Van said Couturier would never do that (i.e. - not that kind of player).  I found a video of him embellishing that shoulder from Holland. I really don't care what Holland did/didn't do.  Couturier pulled a classic head snap when it looked like he was getting a call anyway.

 

Conclusions:

 

1) Orpik's hit was not dirty.

2) Couturier is not above diving/embellishing. He's not at all Sean Avery (as @Polaris922 noted) but no more "OMG Couturier would never!". 

[mojo1917]

i still hate Crosby,  regardless of what other players do.  

Orpik/Couturier, that outcome was just. It was a boarding penalty and the dive was not good enough to warrant a matching minor .

Nice try to redirect the topic though.

 

 

for the record; Crosby's bump to Hartnell was fine, and I would expect someone on the ice to let Hartnell know " we saw that, we can hit too". it is after all hockey, and for that instance Crosby was playing the game the right way.

[flyercanuck]

@B21

 

 I didn't think Orpiks a dirty player. It was a penalty.

 

 As for the video,

 

 Ever taken one of those shoulder pads in the head? This isn't Letang giving himself whiplash because someone skated near him. It's a hit to the head. Neither of us can tell what it felt like. But if I just took one of those pads and tapped you in the head with it, my guess is you're going to jerk your head away. Did he "sell the call". Yes, that I agree with. But it's a penalty to hit a guy in the head with your shoulder.

 

 As for the "catastrophic injury", he's not laying on the ice like he was shot and ONE WHOLE SECOND after the hit, you wouldn't even know he was. In the list of players who embellish in the NHL, Couturier has now risen up to #638.

 

 There are no "OMG never".players. But there are some who've made a name for themselves,by embellishing.. Couturier is a far far far cry away from that lot.

[B21]

@flyercanuck

 

As for the video,

 

Ever taken one of those shoulder pads in the head? This isn't Letang giving himself whiplash because someone skated near him. It's a hit to the head. Neither of us can tell what it felt like. But if I just took one of those pads and tapped you in the head with it, my guess is you're going to jerk your head away. Did he "sell the call". Yes, that I agree with. But it's a penalty to hit a guy in the head with your shoulder.

 

And a penalty looked like it was going to be called even without the antics. What he did is no different than Crosby being hooked/impeded then going down to make sure he gets the call.  Yes - it was a penalty on Holland.  Judging by his reaction after he finsihed the theatrics it was not a hard or vicious hit at all.

 

As for the "catastrophic injury", he's not laying on the ice like he was shot and ONE WHOLE SECOND after the hit, you wouldn't even know he was. In the list of players who embellish in the NHL, Couturier has now risen up to #638.

 

Careful with that one.  It's a pretty obvious embellishment.  If you want to argue these are the only two times Couturier has done this, that'sfine.  I'm guessing if it has happened twice, it's happened a few more times. 

 

Oh - I didn't title the clip.

 

There are no "OMG never".players. But there are some who've made a name for themselves,by embellishing.. Couturier is a far far far cry away from that lot.

 

Few too many "fars" for me but I agree - he's not one who's made a name for himself doing it and he won't show up on any top 10 list.  But - even you can admit that in general, Flyers fans have a "holier than thou" attitude when it comes to diving and embellishing.  So, being on the opposite end of most of those arguments I'm certainly not going to miss a chance to put a dent in that attitude and two Crosby-like incidents by Couturier are the perfect opportunity.

[B21]

@flyercanuck

 

As for the video,

 

Ever taken one of those shoulder pads in the head? This isn't Letang giving himself whiplash because someone skated near him. It's a hit to the head. Neither of us can tell what it felt like. But if I just took one of those pads and tapped you in the head with it, my guess is you're going to jerk your head away. Did he "sell the call". Yes, that I agree with. But it's a penalty to hit a guy in the head with your shoulder.

 

And a penalty looked like it was going to be called even without the antics. What he did is no different than Crosby being hooked/impeded then going down to make sure he gets the call.  Yes - it was a penalty on Holland.  Judging by his reaction after he finsihed the theatrics it was not a hard or vicious hit at all.

 

As for the "catastrophic injury", he's not laying on the ice like he was shot and ONE WHOLE SECOND after the hit, you wouldn't even know he was. In the list of players who embellish in the NHL, Couturier has now risen up to #638.

 

Careful with that one.  It's a pretty obvious embellishment.  If you want to argue these are the only two times Couturier has done this, that'sfine.  I'm guessing if it has happened twice, it's happened a few more times. 

 

Oh - I didn't title the clip.

 

There are no "OMG never".players. But there are some who've made a name for themselves,by embellishing.. Couturier is a far far far cry away from that lot.

 

Few too many "fars" for me but I agree - he's not one who's made a name for himself doing it and he won't show up on any top 10 list.  But - even you can admit that in general, Flyers fans have a "holier than thou" attitude when it comes to diving and embellishing.  So, being on the opposite end of most of those arguments I'm certainly not going to miss a chance to put a dent in that attitude and two Crosby-like incidents by Couturier are the perfect opportunity.

[mojo1917]

But - even you can admit that in general, Flyers fans have a "holier than thou" attitude when it comes to diving and embellishing. 

 

I don't know about that, Bill Barber Danielle Briere, Ken Linesman, we know a golden globe winner when we see one even if he is wearing orange.

[B21]

I don't know about that, Bill Barber Danielle Briere, Ken Linesman, we know a golden globe winner when we see one even if he is wearing orange.

 

All of which are conveniently forgotten whenver Crosby does a Greg Louganis.

 

If its simply "Crosby is a diver..." - agree.

 

If its "Crosby is a diver which is emblematic of everything that is wrong with hockey and that kind on nonsense would never be tolerated in Philly...." - ehhhh, not so fast.

 

There was actually a thread way back when on Philly.com that had about 50 Flyers fans agreeing that if Crosby where a Flyer, he never would have taken to diving and embellishing.

 

Puh-lease.

Edited March 19, 2014 by B21

[flyercanuck]

@B21

 

 Barber never dove.