brelic Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 I looked on NHLnumbers.com just really very quickly. It looks like the typical second-pairing defenseman is in the $2.5-$3.75M range (several even below that, but most in that range). I think Columbus, Pheonix, San Jose, and St. Louis, Vancouver, Winnepeg (three above $5M) and Philly (four including Pronger) were the only teams I came across with a third defensman making in excess of $4M Thanks rux. That sounds about right. So, really, there is no reason that MacD should get paid $5.25M as a 2nd pairing defenseman. Maybe on the Isles, where he was the guy playing 25+ minutes per night. But in Philly, playing 18 minutes on the 2nd pair? On the Flyers, $4M makes sense (I take back my earlier comment of $4.5M). Less than Coburn who is on our 1st pairing (probably with Streit next year) and more than Schenn and Grossmann. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Thanks rux. That sounds about right.So, really, there is no reason that MacD should get paid $5.25M as a 2nd pairing defenseman. Maybe on the Isles, where he was the guy playing 25+ minutes per night. But in Philly, playing 18 minutes on the 2nd pair?On the Flyers, $4M makes sense (I take back my earlier comment of $4.5M). Less than Coburn who is on our 1st pairing (probably with Streit next year) and more than Schenn and Grossmann. Yeah, I hadn't looked before I made my "prediction" earlier, but I've really thought his turning down the Isles offer was more about not wanting to play for the Isles anymore. I think that accounting for Holmgren's typical overpayment, I'm going to stick with $4.5-$4.75M/yr. but really think Holmgren won't have to do much more than the Isles' offer. Maybe still the $4M but add a year or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Are you telling me that if I took the time to actually look up 2nd pairing defensemen across the league on capgeek, that $5.25M would be the going rate?? Dan Girardi says hello.......just signed for 5.5mill and he is close to his age.... but Mark Stuart signed for 2.65mill...but Amac's skillset may be better than both or not it really depends on how Homer views it. And like you said Homer loooooooooooooooooooves to overpay. I'm sure the complimentary NMC will be handed out as well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 So, really, there is no reason that MacD should get paid $5.25M as a 2nd pairing defenseman. Maybe on the Isles, where he was the guy playing 25+ minutes per night. But in Philly, playing 18 minutes on the 2nd pair? Also take in mind that is with a Kimmo on the team....sorry but after his is gone Amac will be the 2nd best all around Dman on this team....scary i know...but...he will also play around 22-20 minutes a night easily once he is acclimated and will get more PP time too....which figures in to the compensation scale....just sayin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Dan Girardi says hello.......just signed for 5.5mill and he is close to his age.... but Mark Stuart signed for 2.65mill...but Amac's skillset may be better than both or not it really depends on how Homer views it. And like you said Homer loooooooooooooooooooves to overpay. I'm sure the complimentary NMC will be handed out as well...Dan Girardi is a top dog for the Rags so 5.5 is totally reasonable. Their defense is a lot of #2s and #3s they really don't have a Weber type, but for me Girardi is their "top guy". I really think we'll be in the 4.5 to 5 range with AMac, if he signs with the Flyers and I think, if his health holds up it will be a decent deal, not a steal like Simmonds but close to the proper value for his skill set/experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 (edited) Dan Girardi is a top dog for the Rags so 5.5 is totally reasonable. Their defense is a lot of #2s and #3s they really don't have a Weber type, but for me Girardi is their "top guy". I really think we'll be in the 4.5 to 5 range with AMac, if he signs with the Flyers and I think, if his health holds up it will be a decent deal, not a steal like Simmonds but close to the proper value for his skill set/experience. Yeah i hope you're right but remember this is for next year....no Kimmo....so as we speak not saying he is one but next year Coburn is that #1....and hafter that looking at who will possibly be here...that will by default more than anything make Amac the #2....certainly won't be Streit or Grossmann or even Gus Schenn will be the #3. So really Amac will have them by the shortly curlies....really....he will be the #2! Also remember this kid is hitting his prime years too. Edited March 7, 2014 by OccamsRazor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 @OccamsRazor We could always try to steel Orpik or Niskanen from the Pens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 @OccamsRazor If Homer has a brain in his head he'll play the "Well ,I'm still not sure if we're going to bring Timmonen back as our #1 yet. If we do, you won't have to play as big of a roll, so this is what we can offer". I know, big IF... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 (edited) @OccamsRazor We could always try to steel Orpik or Niskanen from the Pens Those guys ain't going anywhere....sorry. HHHHhhhhhhmmm just realized that Niskanen is a RH shot.....very interesting if the Pens let him go he would be a good puck moving addition. But would/could they have the money for that???? Yes if the move someone....my first choice would be VLC or Hartnell....but both would be hard to move with NMC would almost handcuff them like with St.Louie did with Tampa. Edited March 7, 2014 by OccamsRazor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 @OccamsRazor If Homer has a brain in his head he'll play the "Well ,I'm still not sure if we're going to bring Timmonen back as our #1 yet. If we do, you won't have to play as big of a roll, so this is what we can offer". I know, big IF... Only if he (Amac) has a dumb agent who is bad at math can they get so lucky. I think behind close doors Homer will tell him to take the year off and rest up for next years playoff run and we'll bring you back at a cap friendly rate...basically whatever they have left before the trade deadline of next year. Something along those lines. Schenn and Amac will be top priority....i wouldn't be surprised if they both aren't resigned before the playoffs start they still have 2 mill in cap space they can use for that i think...don't hold me to that part, i'm not sure if they can use it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 (edited) So, really, there is no reason that MacD should get paid $5.25M as a 2nd pairing defenseman. Here is a good read/comparison and speculation article...enjoy and debate away!! http://www.broadstreethockey.com/2014/3/7/5479778/andrew-macdonald-contract-extension-speculation-flyers All things considered, five years and $4.25 million per year keeps coming to mind for me. We know the Flyers like MacDonald, and we know he's already turned down four years and $16 million. Yes, his role has likely changed from a top-pairing to a bottom-pairing guy, but you can be sure MacDonald and his agent aren't going to accept that justification.Despite the fact that Girardi and Hjalmarsson are probably universally accepted as superior players, they are the type of comparables that MacDonald's agent is going to point to. All signs are pointing to somewhere around $4.25 million to me. Sounds good to me getr done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Edited March 8, 2014 by OccamsRazor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 @OccamsRazor I like what I see from Mac, but there is no way he's better than Hjalmarsson or Girardi.....but this is more about availability, those guys are not available, so they don't really set the bar for the Fllyers. 6 mill would be way to much. Perpahs he takes 5 and is satisfied he's on a better team and his work load is cut down....like you were saying, the Isles asked to much of him. No way he should be playing 25-26 minutes a game. 21 or 22 is not overworking him, but gets him involved in the game...wonder if he's ok on the pk? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 wonder if he's ok on the pk? Not sure about the PK which needs to pick it up with their play but he is suppose to be decent on the PP. So i'll be watching this dude, see if he has potential to stick around after this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 Andrew looked great tonight, very calm skating the puck out his zone, like it was second nature...I'm very impressed. I dub thee "MacDaddy"!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 @jammer2 I didn't focus on him like Wednesday (I was too busy cringing at the all around team defensive play) but thought he looked pretty good out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 agree with what has been mentioned above. MacDaddy does not look out of place and seems to have a pretty decent shot from the point. I would not be against resigning him. How does 1.3 for 3 years sound to resigning him? Speaking of contracts, how the hell does this team have 5 D-men with NT/MC. (Kimo, Coburn, L. Schenn, Grossman (really? rolling my eyes), Pronger (LTIR)) How do you rebuild a blue line with that? Granted Kimo will probably retire after this yeawr and Pronger goes back to LTIR. Just thinking outloud here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimKerrFan12 Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 When does Pronger go away? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 @pilldoc They were talking last night about how Timmonen got that $6 million contract. Apparently he was on vacation and unable to retrieve messages...Homer called and made an offer. When he got no response he thought Kimmo was insulted, so he upped the ante. Still nothing, so he went up to $6 million. When Timmonen came back from holiday he was thrilled...and yet another example of Paul Holmgren outbidding himself. That said, if he wants to come back at half his salary, I'd re-sign him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 When does Pronger go away? if I read capgeek correctly, his last year is 2016-17. He would be an UFA in 2018-19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 When does Pronger go away? Only 3 more years after this one. Brilliant signing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 (edited) @flyercanuck yeah I heard that and just rolled my eyes. If you re-sign him for just 1 more year, how much do you think he is worth. Homer can't possibly pay him another 6 million? or will he. Granted he is one of the best D-men out there, and I love him, and he had a great game last night, BUT he is losing a step here and there. I don't know. I have mixed feelings about whether to resigin him or not...... EDIT: oops..sorry. just re-read your post...you said 1/2 his salary. I could live with a 1 yr deal worth 3 mill. Edited March 9, 2014 by pilldoc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 Only 3 more years after this one. Brilliant signing. no one forsaw his career ending injury, but I get your point. It seems like forever til his salary comes off the books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 @pilldoc I didn't foresee THAT injury. But when they signed a 35 year old physical defenceman to a 7 year deal, I said they were crazy from day 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 @pilldoc I didn't foresee THAT injury. But when they signed a 35 year old physical defenceman to a 7 year deal, I said they were crazy from day 1. or their version of playing Russian Roulette.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 @pilldoc I didn't foresee THAT injury. But when they signed a 35 year old physical defenceman to a 7 year deal, I said they were crazy from day 1.I can testify that you were quite angry about it at the time. You could hear your posts with the computer turned off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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