flyercanuck Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 @ruxpin I'M STILL ANGRY GODDAMMIT!!!! ok, better now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 @pilldoc They were talking last night about how Timmonen got that $6 million contract. Apparently he was on vacation and unable to retrieve messages...Homer called and made an offer. When he got no response he thought Kimmo was insulted, so he upped the ante. Still nothing, so he went up to $6 million. When Timmonen came back from holiday he was thrilled...and yet another example of Paul Holmgren outbidding himself. That said, if he wants to come back at half his salary, I'd re-sign him. Really you have to be shiiting me???? Why am i not surprised that is true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 @OccamsRazor I didn't doubt it for a second. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 Really you have to be shiiting me???? Why am i not surprised that is true. yup...I was rolling my eyes all the way when they said while muttering something totally incomprehendable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 yup...I was rolling my eyes all the way when they said while muttering something totally incomprehendable Well maybe Homer can make up for it by offering Kimmo like 4 mill to come back and play one more year. He owes them!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doom88 Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 Eh, better than losing Timonen outright. Losing that cap space for a year is no big deal. Homer still managed to put out offers on Streit and VLC. Imagine what he could have done with two more million available Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 Well maybe Homer can make up for it by offering Kimmo like 4 mill to come back and play one more year. He owes them!!!!!!!!!!! Just think we have Hartnell's contract until 2019-20!!! :wacko: Good Gawd!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 Just think we have Hartnell's contract until 2019-20!!! :wacko: Good Gawd!!!! Highest paid forward on the Flyers. True story. With Giroux's raise next year, he'll be the second-highest paid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 @brelic Yet another of Homies longterm contracts that have worked out so well. Actually, has any of them worked out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 @flyercanuck The funny part (well, not funny but you know what I mean) is that we usually regret these contracts 1 or 2 years after they are signed. Usually there is a period when you actually enjoy the player, but not with Homer, it's almost instant regret. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doom88 Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 As the cap goes up, these deals are easier to take. Consider the percentage of the cap versus actual amount when deciding value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 As the cap goes up, these deals are easier to take. Consider the percentage of the cap versus actual amount when deciding value. Good point. The actual percentage of the hit is more important than the actual hit....it factors in the cap raising, and lets face it, these GM's all make these deals with the idea that the cap will increase often and steadily. What looks meh today may be a great deal in the future, depending on the actual increases etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 As the cap goes up, these deals are easier to take. Consider the percentage of the cap versus actual amount when deciding value. Are the deals easier to take when the player regresses to a point where he's absolute garbage? Briere was still a $6.5 million caphit during his incredible 6 g 10 a -13 season. They don't keep those stats but I believe he may have also had A backcheck that year. Bryz was never worth the money. Pronger had an injury so I won't go there. Anyone loving VLC in his first year? Four more to go. Same with Streit. Homer loved his Carter and Richards contracts so much he traded them both. And we've got Hartnell for 5 more years after this. There's 8 longterm contracts, none of which look very brilliant to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 Are the deals easier to take when the player regresses to a point where he's absolute garbage? Briere was still a $6.5 million caphit during his incredible 6 g 10 a -13 season. They don't keep those stats but I believe he may have also had A backcheck that year. Bryz was never worth the money. Pronger had an injury so I won't go there. Anyone loving VLC in his first year? Four more to go. Same with Streit. Homer loved his Carter and Richards contracts so much he traded them both. And we've got Hartnell for 5 more years after this. There's 8 longterm contracts, none of which look very brilliant to me. They should develop some kind of metrix that takes into account cap hit vs. cap total vs. production. Everyone would be apples to apples on some scale and you could judge objectively whether player A is worth the cap hit vs. player B. Get on that, would you? Where is @aziz? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 @ruxpin The problem with that is that you get players who bring more than points (Toews for example) and you have others who bring less than points (Briere in his last season). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 They should develop some kind of metrix that takes into account cap hit vs. cap total vs. production. Everyone would be apples to apples on some scale and you could judge objectively whether player A is worth the cap hit vs. player B. Get on that, would you? Where is @aziz? I've been thinking about this for a while, actually. Develop some form of moneyball calculation. Bang for buck ratio. A scale where goals, assists, and points are secondary to other metrics (WOWY, puck possession, corsi and it variants, etc). Anyone interested in a joint venture to get this going? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 I've been thinking about this for a while, actually. Develop some form of moneyball calculation. Bang for buck ratio. A scale where goals, assists, and points are secondary to other metrics (WOWY, puck possession, corsi and it variants, etc).Anyone interested in a joint venture to get this going?If I had the time I bet it would be a very interesting endeavor. I wouldn't even know where to start though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 I wouldn't even know where to start though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 @ruxpin LOL...touche' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 (edited) The funny part (well, not funny but you know what I mean) is that we usually regret these contracts 1 or 2 years after they are signed. From an Islander fan... "Do not get your hopes up with Amac. I'm telling you that most of you guys will end up disliking him at the end of the year. Cut the losses after the season, trust me. He's a major reason why the Islander D is the worst in the league. As a diehard Islander fan, I can truly tell you he was the worst D'man on our roster. The only reason why he played so much was that our terrible coach Capuano coached him in the AHl and NHL. He was his only pro coach. Biggest weakness are below.1. Very weak, Forwards know this and will take him hard to the net.2. Can't clear the zone when in trouble. He panic's all the time and can never send it past the blueline.3. Very bad give aways, he will cost you many goals on his terrible passes. For every good cross ice pass he usually makes up with a terrible costly goal.4. Wear's down late in games, players will skate past him like a cone on the ice. Sorry guys, but this was a bad trade for you guys. Amac is a team destroyer." ....we'll see. I've liked what i've seen price can change everything. HFBoards Edited March 11, 2014 by OccamsRazor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doom88 Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 1 and 3 equal Streit. 4 was bad coaching and possibly conditioning. 2, not yet. He's looked okay under pressure. Maybe the Flyers get players back to receive a pass better than the Islanders, making it easier on Mac? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 1 and 3 equal Streit. 4 was bad coaching and possibly conditioning. 2, not yet. He's looked okay under pressure. Maybe the Flyers get players back to receive a pass better than the Islanders, making it easier on Mac?Maybe he has to drink or medicate so much to remain an islanders fan that he no longer has any idea what he's talking about. Or the islander fan has sour grapes about yet another player who didn't want to play for that cess pool of a team. It sucks being the dumped girl friend. In any case, his description doesn't match what I've seen. Even when he was still on the Isles. The issues I did see were attributable to too much ice time and a really lousy execution by the forwards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 From an Islander fan... "Do not get your hopes up with Amac. I'm telling you that most of you guys will end up disliking him at the end of the year. Cut the losses after the season, trust me. He's a major reason why the Islander D is the worst in the league. As a diehard Islander fan, I can truly tell you he was the worst D'man on our roster. The only reason why he played so much was that our terrible coach Capuano coached him in the AHl and NHL. He was his only pro coach. Biggest weakness are below.1. Very weak, Forwards know this and will take him hard to the net.2. Can't clear the zone when in trouble. He panic's all the time and can never send it past the blueline.3. Very bad give aways, he will cost you many goals on his terrible passes. For every good cross ice pass he usually makes up with a terrible costly goal.4. Wear's down late in games, players will skate past him like a cone on the ice. Sorry guys, but this was a bad trade for you guys. Amac is a team destroyer." ....we'll see. I've liked what i've seen price can change everything. HFBoards Maybe he just got overplayed in NY? That could result in all 4 points the guy made. If he continues to play the way he has, I'm all for signing him...and I wasn't happy with the deal off the bat. Or he's just playing for a new contract and will regress after he signs one. But the guy I've seen (in a very small sample size) is NOT the guy he's describing that played for the Isles. Though that guy was not the only one glad to see him gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 I'm gonna go ahead and wait more than two games to make a judgement about a player. I'm really quite stunned to see so many people advocating for an immediate re-signing of a player after two games. Could it be that people who have seen two hundred ninety-five games over four and a half seasons have more of a perspective? Could be. Could it be that he was misplayed on the island? Could be. I hope the trade pans out and I hope that he's an effective player for the Flyers. I'm just not confident making that decision after two games. YMMV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 Maybe he just got overplayed in NY? That could result in all 4 points the guy made. If he continues to play the way he has, I'm all for signing him...and I wasn't happy with the deal off the bat. Or he's just playing for a new contract and will regress after he signs one. But the guy I've seen (in a very small sample size) is NOT the guy he's describing that played for the Isles. Though that guy was not the only one glad to see him gone.I agree what this vuy says and what I've seen doesn't add up. Now its only been two games but I'm sure we'll all have a better idea by the end of this season/playoffs if they make it. After Kimmo retires he'll be #2 by default almost...time will tell it would be nice to have a trade pan out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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