Flyers have traded for Andy MacDonald

[ruxpin]

I want to see Homer recover a pick

 

Let's leave Joni Pitkänen out of this, huh?

[jammer2]

Let's leave Joni Pitkänen out of this, huh?

 

 HA HA>>>instant classic!!!!

[jammer2]

@jammer2

 

   THROW WATER ON HER!!!!  BRING ME HER GOLF CLUB!

 

I'm a boy, I'm a boy

But my ma won't admit it

I'm a boy, I'm a boy

But if I say I am I get it

 

 Good Lord, right before my bedtime rux??  I will sleep with the lights on now!!

[ruxpin]

I will sleep with the lights on now!!

 

Yeah, probably easier to find..um..."stuff"...that way.

[JackStraw]

I agree with everything you say jack.. Everything... The Flyers were not so lucky bc they go for it every year. That is not a bad thing but may r a different approach would be helpful...

I don't hate the trade.. I think MacDonald will help but I want to see Homer recover a pick

 

I definitely want to see Homer get a pick or two back. But honestly, I don't see this as a "go for it every year" type move. I don't really think the Flyers have done that since the Pronger trade in fact. Maybe I'm being overly optimistic but I see this as a "let's start making this defense into a real NHL defense" type move. I agree completely with mojo, the real future of the Flyers blue line is (hopefully) in Canadian juniors, Sweden, and the NCAA. And we won't see any of them for a few years most likely. So until then, the Flyers are going to have to make due as best they can. I think MacDonald plus "somebody" can be an improvement over Meszaros and Grossman. So hopefully that's the direction the team is going in. But we'll see.

[Howie58]

Greetings:

 

I am beginning to wonder if Long Island is now viewed as Defense Minor for our team...Gervais, Streit, and now...Andy. . .This is hard to assess. I agree the price of possible resigning is the bone of contention.  Let's hope this isn't Baumgartner II.  I recall we got him after a "breakout" year....yabba dabba doo.

 

Best,

 

Howie

[flyercanuck]

Yes, and getting a 3rd overall (Toews) and a 1st overall (Kane) probably had something to do with that. The Flyers haven't been so lucky. They weren't getting that savior #1 defenseman, nobody trades those guys away. So it's either a project (like Rundblad) or a decent non-sexy NHL defenseman like MacDonald. This at least gives management a chance to improve the defense, which is something that just has to be done.

 

 

 We haven't been so lucky because every year Holmgren trades most of our picks away for more mediocre players keeping the team...not great, not lousy, but mediocre. It's the Flyer blueprint. MUST MAKE DEADLINE DEALS.

 

 I mean honestly, has anyone watched this team this year and thought "Man, if only we could get our hands on Andy MacDonald I'm pretty sure we could go through Pittsburgh, Boston and Chicago". No?  Then why not look forward and try a 2nd round pick on for size? Hagg doesn't look so horrible does he?

 

 I'm just so fed up with this team doing the same thing every year and expecting that THIS TIME, it'll turn out different.

 

 At least MacDonald isn't 35. That's the one of two good things about the trade. And it wasn't our youth for Kesler. (Pens fans on the HFboards are thrilled MacDonald isn't leaving the division btw)

 

edit: I noticed as I read deeper into the thread you said basically the same thing I did here.

[flyercanuck]

I agree with everything you say jack.. Everything... The Flyers were not so lucky bc they go for it every year. That is not a bad thing but may r a different approach would be helpful...

I don't hate the trade.. I think MacDonald will help but I want to see Homer recover a pick

 

 

 This ^. The best players on this team were either (A) drafted by the Flyers or (B) acquired by trading older for younger.

 

 So let's not do THAT anymore, right?

[flyercanuck]

@jammer2

 

   THROW WATER ON HER!!!!  BRING ME HER GOLF CLUB!

 

I'm a boy, I'm a boy

But my ma won't admit it

I'm a boy, I'm a boy

But if I say I am I get it

 

 

Props to rux for his Who lyric usage.

[brelic]

So the articles I've been reading say MacD is playing way over his capacity this year. Point taken; he's not really a 25 minutes per night kind of guy.

They also say he is a realistically a reliable 3rd pairing defenseman, including on Philly.com this morning:

The Islanders' No. 2 defenseman is expected to be asked to play a much lesser role with the Flyers, which may benefit him. He is viewed around the NHL as a solid third-pairing player on a top NHL team.

So, Meszaros, 28 years old, our 3rd pairing defenseman with 0.45pts/game this year (0.38pts/game career), playing 17 minutes per game, defensively suspect, and UFA at the end of the year figures to be worth a 2nd rounder.

MacDonald, 27 years old, top pairing on the Island but viewed as a realistic 3rd pairing guy, 0.38pts/game this year (0.30pts/game career), playing 25 minutes per game, defensively suspect, UFA at the end of the year, is worth a 2nd rounder, a 3rd rounder, and a minor leaguer.

Why do I get the feeling Homer always overpays? I get that other teams were in on MacD too, so that likely drove up the price by at least a draft pick. But he's still viewed as a 3rd pairing defenseman.

Last I checked, we had a squad full of 3rd pairing defensemen and a farm team loaded with them.

Like others have said, I'd rather see someone from within our own organization, scouted, drafted, and developed by our guys, have more than a token chance at proving they are at least a 3rd pairing defenseman.

[flyercanuck]

@brelic

 

 Ya, we get a Mez type for a 2nd, a 3rd and a prospect. And IF we even get rid of Mez, we'll likely get a 4th for him.

 

 And wonder why the farm system is in shambles.

[ruxpin]

And IF we even get rid of Mez, we'll likely get a 4th for him.

 

I'll put my chips on that square.

[flyercanuck]

@ruxpin

 

 Maybe we can Versteeg back for a 1st and a 3rd and then trade him for a 2nd and a 3rd again?

[brelic]

@brelic

 

 Ya, we get a Mez type for a 2nd, a 3rd and a prospect. And IF we even get rid of Mez, we'll likely get a 4th for him.

 

 And wonder why the farm system is in shambles.

Mangene was basically a throw in, probably to get rid of a contract. That guy's going nowhere near the NHL.

At the end of the day, it is pretty much a "meh" trade. But it's just more "grass is greener" thinking.

[flyercanuck]

I don't care about mangene. Or the 3rd so much. Really, 2nds and 3rds don't pan out that often. But the odds are a lot better of hitting that Weber/Keith/Subban jackpot if you don't trade those picks away every single year.

[brelic]

@ruxpin

 

 Maybe we can Versteeg back for a 1st and a 3rd and then trade him for a 2nd and a 3rd again?

Or get Carcillo for Upshall AND a 2nd rounder.

[ruxpin]

He is worth a look and he played ok i thought and certainly would be better than Gross or Mezz. Wasting away on the Phantoms i don't know what else he has to do he is a stay at home type but skates well for a big dude.

 

I probably should have quoted the whole thing, but fair post OR.

 

I think the reason I referenced Tim Tookey (who the hell knows why I randomly reference stuff?) is because watching Tookey in Hershey you saw a guy with a lot of heart, better than average skill vs. the other AHLers and some leadership ability (by the way, he was a decent car salesman in the offseason).  But he only drank a cup of coffee or two on the big club.  I never clearly understood why but figured the organIzation saw something they didn't think translated to the NHL game (keep in mind that this was back in the stone age before centre ice or computers or 1253 cable channels, etc. so if you wanted to see an AHL game you had to go to it).

 

Your +/- point is a decent one.  I didn't realize what he was earlier.   On the other hand, by your stats (aren't stats wonderful?) he's a -8 since sometime in January.  Chalk that up as a bad spell and not really relevant, though

 

The thing is that in his brief time up last year, he played well.  Not fantastic.  Not headline-making, but well.  Well enough that based solely on THAT, you'd think he'd fit in pretty well and hold his own at least as a 3rd pair.  Well enough that maybe you get rid of some of the bigger price tags and let him and Gus play.  At least until the supposedly better guys get here in a couple yeas.

 

I just don't see the 2nd pair in him on a decent defense (I know "decent defense" isn't really relevant, but ya know). 

 

I'm all over the place in this post so:   If he comes up, great.  He'll be decent on the third pair but expect nothing more.  If he doesn't come up, I probably won't notice.

[brelic]

I don't care about mangene. Or the 3rd so much. Really, 2nds and 3rds don't pan out that often. But the odds are a lot better of hitting that Weber/Keith/Subban jackpot if you don't trade those picks away every single year.

100% of 2nd round picks not used...

[brelic]

The thing is that in his brief time up last year, he played well.  Not fantastic.  Not headline-making, but well.  Well enough that based solely on THAT, you'd think he'd fit in pretty well and hold his own at least as a 3rd pair.  Well enough that maybe you get rid of some of the bigger price tags and let him and Gus play.  At least until the supposedly better guys get here in a couple yeas.

This is the crux of the matter, innit? Why do we go and sign Hal Gill? So if our other 9 NHL defensemen go down, we STILL don't trust our AHL guys and we'd rather have Pylon Gill back there.

It was the same with Gervais, and Foster.

[King Knut]

That's part of my point though. I'm not sure MacDonald gets more than four even from homer, so part of my conclusion is that he doesn't want to go to Brooklyn.

Yeah. They did offer that. They also offered Vanek. They're not trading because they're not willing to pay. They're trading because no one is willing to stay

[King Knut]

That's part of my point though. I'm not sure MacDonald gets more than four even from homer, so part of my conclusion is that he doesn't want to go to Brooklyn.

Yeah. They did offer that. They also offered Vanek. They're not trading because they're not willing to pay. They're trading because no one is willing to stay

[flyercanuck]

Another silver lining to this trade....the 33 year old broken down center we didn't need that we have signed for 5 years now officially doesn't have the worst plus minus on the team. That's gotta be worth a 3rd right there.

[fanaticV3.0]

He's 28, was a top 4 guy...

 

I don't know if I get the Kvetching from the faithful here ?

I saw him play pretty well vs the Pens until he got dinged up, what am I missing ?

 

I don't want to hear about mortgaging the future either because 3rd round draft picks Klotz and Ghouloborne will come and kick your asses.

We got a guy that can skate, make a pass, run the powerplay ... i mean what the **** guys ?

 

It's cool to complain about Homer. He's not very well liked, people want him gone, and they just want to pile on instead of breaking down each move he makes.

 

I don't know a lot about him to be completely honest. Just from reading up on him he's a good shot blocker and decent offensively. Personally, I think they need someone who is more capable of his own end. Defense is the team's biggest need, not offense from the D. That being said, the trade is not so bad that it warrants the level of crying it's receiving from some, especially since you will probably get some of those picks back in another trade (Mez, I'm guessing).

[JackStraw]

We haven't been so lucky because every year Holmgren trades most of our picks away for more mediocre players keeping the team...not great, not lousy, but mediocre. It's the Flyer blueprint. MUST MAKE DEADLINE DEALS.

 

 I mean honestly, has anyone watched this team this year and thought "Man, if only we could get our hands on Andy MacDonald I'm pretty sure we could go through Pittsburgh, Boston and Chicago". No?  Then why not look forward and try a 2nd round pick on for size? Hagg doesn't look so horrible does he?

 

 I'm just so fed up with this team doing the same thing every year and expecting that THIS TIME, it'll turn out different.

 

 At least MacDonald isn't 35. That's the one of two good things about the trade. And it wasn't our youth for Kesler. (Pens fans on the HFboards are thrilled MacDonald isn't leaving the division btw)

 

edit: I noticed as I read deeper into the thread you said basically the same thing I did here.

But how often does Homer really make big trades at the deadline? Not that often actually:

http://www.flyershistory.com/cgi-bin/trade.cgi

The one that stands out as nasty is a 2nd, 4th and Kalinksi for a completely washed up Kubina. I think it's more the off-season that gets Homer into trouble. And just because some trades/signings are bad doesn't mean they're all bad. No team builds entirely through the draft. The Hawks had a couple important guys (Sharp, Hossa) on their Cup winning teams that they got from elsewhere.

This particular trade is not a "Flyers, at it again" type trade. Every team in the league does this kind of trade from time to time.

[mojo1917]

Personally, I think they need someone who is more capable of his own end. Defense is the team's biggest need, not offense from the D.

 

He's fine in his own end, no one will confuse him for Brad McCrimmon that's clear.  

My perception of what hurts this team is a lack of mobility from half of the defensmen,  there are two players who play regularly that can skate the puck away from a forechecker, one is Coburn who will then lose his train of thought upon crossing the red line, and the other is Sometimes Mezaros and sometimes Gustafsson, that equals 2, Timonen has lost several steps, Grossmann, ha ! Schenn, not likely.  This lack of mobility also hurts on offense when a step up can help keep the puck in the the attacking zone but never comes because the defenseman needs to guard against the odd man rush that due to the lack of speed may turn into a two on the goalie. 

 

he's an upgrade to what's going on with our defense, he fits into a top 4 role on our team and makes us better.