doom88 Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Would you rather he throw his own employees / players under the bus to the media? Of course he's going to say they can beat anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted January 28, 2014 Author Share Posted January 28, 2014 Would you rather he throw his own employees / players under the bus to the media? Of course he's going to say they can beat anyone. No but you can provide a realistic reasoning behind why the Team you own is playing bad. But in a perferct world, which the Flyers are not and will not be this year, everyone wins with Eddie. This offseason will come w/ excuses about scheduling and how they were not afforded enough practice time, the Olympics, etc... This is the man that claims (on record) they are trying to win the Stanley Cup every single year. A fresh perspective? Maybe be a little truthful to the fans who pay a shitload of money to go to the games. No one is asking him to throw the players under the bus but there is nothing wrong w/ being critical with the Team he allowed to be put together by his own choice of GM. If they are trying to win it this year like he has stated many times the fans at least deserve some type of logical comment that would explain why they are fallinf short (very short) of the main Organizational goal. Smoking mirrors does Snider no good... fans are out for blood and he is the one that set the SC expectation this year - not the fans. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doom88 Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 I'm a Ravens fan, we only hear from our owner once a year, after the season is over. I know Ed is different, but I wasn't reading into his media quote. I just didn't see anything valuable there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted January 28, 2014 Author Share Posted January 28, 2014 I'm a Ravens fan that explains it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doom88 Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 that explains it Not sure which way you're going with it, but it feels like a kick in the nuts right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 He's trying to make us believe that he doesn't have a hand in any of this, that he's not calling the shots, that he's stays out of it, or is above it. Either that or he's finally, finally, telling us the truth and what we've known all along - he actually knows nothing. There might be some owners in professional sports who give that sort of leeway to their General Managers - the ability to sign franchise-altering, decade-long deals and then wipe them out so they can sign another franchise-altering, decade-long deal and have the owner read about it in the paper the next morning - but I don't know anybody who puts Ed Snider into that category. Except maybe Ed Snider. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OH1FlyersFan Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 @ Radoran. I totally agree. I wasn't buying for a minute that he doesn't have a hand in any of this. His fingerprints are all over everything. That's part of the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 I have meds for these delusions of grandeur mescaline and ether????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aziz Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 I was reading Timmy P's article this morning and there was a quote from Ed Snider that basically said they can beat any team in the league if they play the right way and fix the bad habits. I hope this was just a loosey goosey comment b/c if not dementia has set in. except is it exactly true. people who are saying this squad is less than the sum of its parts, this is what you are saying. look at the bruins' roster player by player, and tell me how impressed you are. rask is a badass, as is chara. lucic is legitimately frightening, and bergeron is an extraordinary defensive player. beyond those four? completely pedestrian. marchand, eriksson, paile? these are players i wouldn't want anywhere near the flyers' roster, even if they were offered in exchange for milkduds. boychuk, mcquiad, bartkowski? and you think the flyers' blueline is unimpressive?? but it works. that roster is organized and coached in a way that it works. there is no reason that team beats the flyer, other than that team plays a better game than the flyers do. it isn't because they have better players, it's because there is something tying them together to be more than their parts, whereas the flyers are the opposite. figure out what that nebulous something is, and you solve the riddle. the roster itself isn't the begining and end of the problem. this roster has the talent to chew the bruins up and spit them out. seriously, the bruins are a very on-paper also-ran team. except they have something going on that has them FAR beyond the on-paper. figure out what and replicate it, and...there is no ceiling. tldr: the core of the problem isn't the roster. no trade or signing or promotion from junior is going to fix things. something is wrong with how the team plays. until that is resolved, the rest is distraction. snider is right. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 except is it exactly true. people who are saying this squad is less than the sum of its parts, this is what you are saying. look at the bruins' roster player by player, and tell me how impressed you are. rask is a badass, as is chara. lucic is legitimately frightening, and bergeron is an extraordinary defensive player. beyond those four? completely pedestrian. marchand, eriksson, paile? these are players i wouldn't want anywhere near the flyers' roster, even if they were offered in exchange for milkduds. boychuk, mcquiad, bartkowski? and you think the flyers' blueline is unimpressive?? but it works. that roster is organized and coached in a way that it works. there is no reason that team beats the flyer, other than that team plays a better game than the flyers do. it isn't because they have better players, it's because there is something tying them together to be more than their parts, whereas the flyers are the opposite. figure out what that nebulous something is, and you solve the riddle. the roster itself isn't the begining and end of the problem. this roster has the talent to chew the bruins up and spit them out. seriously, the bruins are a very on-paper also-ran team. except they have something going on that has them FAR beyond the on-paper. figure out what and replicate it, and...there is no ceiling. tldr: the core of the problem isn't the roster. no trade or signing or promotion from junior is going to fix things. something is wrong with how the team plays. until that is resolved, the rest is distraction. snider is right.interesting point of view. I can see where you are coming from, The problem is that this has been a reoccuring theme for several years now. In your vast hockey knowledge, could you make an educated guess to why this team vastly underperforms/underachieves through stretches at a time? I for one don't have a clue anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 tldr: the core of the problem isn't the roster. no trade or signing or promotion from junior is going to fix things. something is wrong with how the team plays. until that is resolved, the rest is distraction. snider is right. Well, it could certainly be related to the roster in terms of the pieces that are assembled. It is possible that the current roster doesn't have the right pieces for the jigsaw puzzle to put itself together. You are absolutely right that there is no trade or signing or promotion by itself that will change it. But when you look at the team play at the end of last season when they were forced to play different players, they got more out of them. It took time to put this mess together and it will take time to fix it. Unless, of course, they can count on every team playing a backup goalie and missing two of their biggest pieces in every playoff round. interesting point of view. I can see where you are coming from, The problem is that this has been a reoccuring theme for several years now. In your vast hockey knowledge, could you make an educated guess to why this team vastly underperforms/underachieves through stretches at a time? I for one don't have a clue anymore. It is odd that the team changes goalies, coaches and 75% of the roster and still comes up with the same problems. Or is it? Are we just too close to the team and watch too much too closely? It's an interesting question. I think there might be a little of both - i.e. lots of teams go through "disappointing" stretches in the course of a season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanaticV3.0 Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 See your point of view, I will just agree to disagree which is ok. In a perfect world I would love to go your route, but this defense is bad even with vetern players. I would rather have Lauridsen take a few bumps here and there and learn on a daile basis then L. Schenn just standing there with his mouth wide open. But hey..that is what thes forums are for. To debate in a civil way. Peace. I don't have a problem with Lauridsen over L. Schenn. I have a problem with both of them being in the same lineup without any veteran support. It's not the youth I object to, it's throwing them in and just expecting it to work. The worst thing you can do to a young player is tell them you are going to depend heavily on them and not give them any good veteran support. I strongly believe in a balance of the two types of players. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 I don't have a problem with Lauridsen over L. Schenn. I have a problem with both of them being in the same lineup without any veteran support Luke looked his best since he has been in orange and black skating with Ollie last year and hasn't looked no where the same since he was sent back to the Phantoms. They have plenty of veteran leadership to lean on. Ollie brings size to the lineup and he skates well for 6' 6". Ollie is 24 going on 25 in march if not now when....besides if they let him play they would find out they don't need Gill cause the only reason Gill is even here has to be when they need more size in the lineup. Anyways that is my two cents on it. Yet the sad part is they can't call these guys up even to try them because someone will have to be waived like Gill or Mezz....once again Homer paints himself into a corner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanaticV3.0 Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 (edited) Luke looked his best since he has been in orange and black skating with Ollie last year and hasn't looked no where the same since he was sent back to the Phantoms. They have plenty of veteran leadership to lean on. Ollie brings size to the lineup and he skates well for 6' 6". Ollie is 24 going on 25 in march if not now when....besides if they let him play they would find out they don't need Gill cause the only reason Gill is even here has to be when they need more size in the lineup. Anyways that is my two cents on it. Yet the sad part is they can't call these guys up even to try them because someone will have to be waived like Gill or Mezz....once again Homer paints himself into a corner. Like who? VLC and Mez are shot, I love Timonen, but he should be a complimentary piece at this point in his career, not one of your top defenseman. Hartnell? He means well, but he's just so Hartnell. They don't need older/veteran players and that alone, they need ones who are impact players or can handle the pressure the youth on this team cannot. Off the top of my head, I don't know who that is, but they need a Pronger. That guy did everything he could to take the pressure off the kids (and yet Richards still bickered with the media). Edited January 30, 2014 by fanaticV3.0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 I love Timonen, but he should be a complimentary piece at this point in his career, not one of your top defenseman. Age aside he is still the Flyers best defenseman and in the top 10 IN THE WHOLE LEAGUE in Coris relative!!!!! For comparison Grossman is 3rd worst in the whole league. Just people around here take what he (Kimmo) does for granted. He'll be sorely missed when he is gone. But VLC even Coburn and Hartnell are part of it Gill too are here for veteran leadership. I'm not saying they are the best examples of it and would be my choice but Homer and management think they are and lets be honest that is all that matters they don't give two schits what me and you think. They are here so the young guys can pick their brain and give advice. VLC is the only guy on the team that has hoisted the Cup. Really it's about all you can do the young kids have to play the vets can't play for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanaticV3.0 Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Age aside he is still the Flyers best defenseman and in the top 10 IN THE WHOLE LEAGUE in Coris relative!!!!! For comparison Grossman is 3rd worst in the whole league. Just people around here take what he (Kimmo) does for granted. He'll be sorely missed when he is gone. But VLC even Coburn and Hartnell are part of it Gill too are here for veteran leadership. I'm not saying they are the best examples of it and would be my choice but Homer and management think they are and lets be honest that is all that matters they don't give two schits what me and you think. They are here so the young guys can pick their brain and give advice. VLC is the only guy on the team that has hoisted the Cup. Really it's about all you can do the young kids have to play the vets can't play for them. Come again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 (edited) Come again? Those are the stats they use to gauge Dmen in the NHL. And considering Kimmo and Braydon for that matter go against the other teams best on a nightly basis Kimmo ranks in the top 10 in the NHL this season....take it for what it's worth. But it's the measurement someone came up with to gauge these guys i posted it a couple post way back on one of these threads not sure which one now. But Kimmo and Braydon have some pretty damn good stats. GrossmanN not so much he is rated as one of the worst in the NHL. Numbers to make your head explode... http://www.extraskat...hia-flyers/2013 The Nicklas Grossmann problem http://www.broadstre...ysis-bad-flyers Some old stuff i found i posted if you care to read... Edited January 30, 2014 by OccamsRazor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 (edited) Come again? Here is something i found from a pretty good poster i'm stealing this because he did all the footwork it's kind of sloppy but it's a comparison of $s verse the corsi scores of other great verse Kimmo...like i said a little hard to trasfer... Here the stat guys prove that Kimmo is somewhere between Duncan Keith and Erik Karlsson. Nice work, stat guys.ComparablesBut how does Timonen stack up to comparable defensemen (by cap percentage) around the NHL?5v5 score-close stats, comparable defensemenDefenseman (Team) Cap Hit Cap % TOI CF20 CA20 CF%Brent Seabrook (CHI) $5,800,000 9.02% 589:10 21.759 15.513 0.584Duncan Keith (CHI) $5,538,462 9.32% 607:37 21.889 15.635 0.583Kimmo Timonen (PHI) $6,000,000 9.33% 436:11 19.075 16.323 0.539Erik Karlsson (OTT) $6,500,000 9.21% 617:30 21.474 19.142 0.529Tobias Enstrom (WPG) $5,750,000 8.94% 590:44 18.519 18.689 0.498 Kimmo's right smack in the middle, between Duncan Keith and Erik Karlsson. The O/DSt% of all 5 of those players averages out to 54.8%, so, in terms of deployment, they're all being used in the same manner. Edited January 30, 2014 by OccamsRazor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanaticV3.0 Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Those are the stats they use to gauge Dmen in the NHL. And considering Kimmo and Braydon for that matter go against the other teams best on a nightly basis Kimmo ranks in the top 10 in the NHL this season....take it for what it's worth. But it's the measurement someone came up with to gauge these guys i posted it a couple post way back on one of these threads not sure which one now. But Kimmo and Braydon have some pretty damn good stats. GrossmanN not so much he is rated as one of the worst in the NHL. Numbers to make your head explode... http://www.extraskat...hia-flyers/2013 The Nicklas Grossmann problem http://www.broadstre...ysis-bad-flyers Some old stuff i found i posted if you care to read... Never heard of it. Did a little digging around the net and found that it is essentiall "the shot differential while a player was on the ice". To be totally honest, it sounds like a bunch of bullsh!t to me. There is a hell of a lot more to a players' game than how many shots his team has taken/given up, especially defensemen. And while I have no problem admitting Grossman has had a rough January, he's far from the problem on D. Luke Schenn is easily the worst defenseman they have. Mezaros isn't much better than him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howie58 Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Greetings: I think last night's game against Anaheim underscored the lack of talent. I agree with Berube that the team worked. But work ethic can only go so far. The Center Ice feed was from Anaheim--they observed lack of skating speed on the Flyers' part. The D is getting skated through. Or it is too dependent on blocking shots and doesn't have the talent or mindset to prevent them. Meanwhile, Mason looks like a fool because he's blinded by his own D. Howie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted January 31, 2014 Author Share Posted January 31, 2014 Greetings: I think last night's game against Anaheim underscored the lack of talent. I agree with Berube that the team worked. But work ethic can only go so far. The Center Ice feed was from Anaheim--they observed lack of skating speed on the Flyers' part. The D is getting skated through. Or it is too dependent on blocking shots and doesn't have the talent or mindset to prevent them. Meanwhile, Mason looks like a fool because he's blinded by his own D. Howie No doubt Howie... this Team is not going to contend w/ a Team that has speed. It was apparent last night.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 To be totally honest, it sounds like a bunch of bullsh!t to me Yeah i swear it seems like it, i like the eyeball test ...what i see when i watch them. But they swear by it...and others not so much. GrossmanN had a rough month but having to play with Streit has to be difficult from what i've seen let me know if you see him get physical it'll be his first. I don't expect him to hit like Pronger but goddamn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 (edited) Never heard of it. Did a little digging around the net and found that it is essentiall "the shot differential while a player was on the ice". To be totally honest, it sounds like a bunch of bullsh!t to me. There is a hell of a lot more to a players' game than how many shots his team has taken/given up, especially defensemen.And while I have no problem admitting Grossman has had a rough January, he's far from the problem on D. Luke Schenn is easily the worst defenseman they have. Mezaros isn't much better than him.Here is another article on Kimmo and the rest he is carrying...http://www.broadstreethockey.com/2014/1/30/5350748/kimmo-timonen-is-still-very-good Edited February 2, 2014 by OccamsRazor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Quigster Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 It seems the prototype NHL defense man is constructed like Jones/Nurse/Morin/Pronger,/etc. That may be part of the problem,what da'ya' think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanaticV3.0 Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 (edited) Yeah i swear it seems like it, i like the eyeball test ...what i see when i watch them. But they swear by it...and others not so much. GrossmanN had a rough month but having to play with Streit has to be difficult from what i've seen let me know if you see him get physical it'll be his first. I don't expect him to hit like Pronger but goddamn. I got nothing against stats at all, but that particular one seems pretty flimsy imo. I love Timonen and would resign him for a hometown discount, but I don't think he's one of the top players in the game right now. Was he for a time? Oh yeah. Edited February 4, 2014 by fanaticV3.0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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