Flyers biggest needs going forward once this mediocre season ends

[RonJeremy]

Lets face it, our team is mediocre, we will probably finish around around the .500 mark, and if we make the playoffs we are not going too far. I also think this has to be the most boring Flyers team I have watched in a long time. So, on a positive note, it looks like our 25 year search for a good goalie is over. Mason has great skill , does not let in many bad goals and his mechanics and fluid movement are impressive after having so many bad goalies over the years.

 

Going forward I think our biggest needs are as follows....

 

An offensive defenseman with not only puck rushing skills, but also with playmaking skills and an accurate point shot. We have had defenseman who could skate over the years.. Timmo, Carle and Coburn, but none of them can shoot the puck and none are exceptional playmakers. Ghost is looking good, but is still about 30 pounds and a year or two away. Morin and Haag are also years away and haven't shown as much offensive skill yet. So do we sit back and be mediocre for a few more years or do we trade for a dman? With the emergence of Laughton, this makes either Schenn or Coots expendable, or do we move Laughton for a good young dman?

 

A pure finisher to play on Girouxs line, we really need a sniper to benefit from Girouxs playmaking skills, since no one on his line is playing that well and is a pure scoring threat, teams are keying on Giroux and shutting him down. As its been written many times, we also need some overall team speed, but of course a mix of speed and size is always best. The biggest problem of course is, even if we have a great draft, we cant expect an 18 year old to step in and be a big factor for us, so I fear we have 2 more years of mediocrity ahead of us.

 

p.s. and to those who keep talking about trading Coburn, if we trade him our already slow and immobile defense, becomes even slower....

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jackhole]

I say strip this team down at the deadline, go into complete rebuild mode (meaning Hextall) and make sure we suck sufficiently next year to be a player in the 'McDavid' sweepstakes!

[mojo1917]

@RonJeremy

I don't know if I think 30 lbs on Ghotisbehere is wise, if his frame can support it fine, but he's 6'0"? I think 215 on that frame will slow him down so that he's just another guy.

Hagg is having an up and down year in Sweden but his offensive instincts are already better than half the Flyers NHL defensemen.

The roster needs addressed, I just don't know how it can be done with all the long term deals with NMCs. I would be okay jettisoning VLC , Streit, Mezaros, Letting Timmonen retire. I don't know who to target via trade that helps with out hurting the team severely.

[Howie58]

Lets face it, our team is mediocre, we will probably finish around around the .500 mark, and if we make the playoffs we are not going too far. I also think this has to be the most boring Flyers team I have watched in a long time. So, on a positive note, it looks like our 25 year search for a good goalie is over. Mason has great skill , does not let in many bad goals and his mechanics and fluid movement are impressive after having so many bad goalies over the years.

 

Going forward I think our biggest needs are as follows....

 

An offensive defenseman with not only puck rushing skills, but also with playmaking skills and an accurate point shot. We have had defenseman who could skate over the years.. Timmo, Carle and Coburn, but none of them can shoot the puck and none are exceptional playmakers. Ghost is looking good, but is still about 30 pounds and a year or two away. Morin and Haag are also years away and haven't shown as much offensive skill yet. So do we sit back and be mediocre for a few more years or do we trade for a dman? With the emergence of Laughton, this makes either Schenn or Coots expendable, or do we move Laughton for a good young dman?

 

A pure finisher to play on Girouxs line, we really need a sniper to benefit from Girouxs playmaking skills, since no one on his line is playing that well and is a pure scoring threat, teams are keying on Giroux and shutting him down. As its been written many times, we also need some overall team speed, but of course a mix of speed and size is always best. The biggest problem of course is, even if we have a great draft, we cant expect an 18 year old to step in and be a big factor for us, so I fear we have 2 more years of mediocrity ahead of us.

 

p.s. and to those who keep talking about trading Coburn, if we trade him our already slow and immobile defense, becomes even slower....

 

Ron:

 

I think your assessment is accurate. The whole team needs assessment but the immobile D is the highest priority. It will be interesting to see if the trade deadline brings some "dumping" of one or more of our forward corps. If Homer remains the principal architect...we are going nowhere fast.

 

Best,

Howie

[aziz]

A pure finisher to play on Girouxs line, we really need a sniper to benefit from Girouxs playmaking skills, since no one on his line is playing that well and is a pure scoring threat, teams are keying on Giroux and shutting him down.

I question the idea of giroux's playmaking skills. He has a great shot, good release, and a ton of puck control. He seems repetitive and predictable in his play making decisions, though.

Any way, to me, the giroux line is currently doing what it needs to do. Giroux isn't Crosby, isn't going to put up 120 points, and the team needs to move towards the three line build it is currently using. The first line isn't my worry, neither is the third. The second line needs to start contributing. Fix that and you'll see a large change. Which means: hold your trading horses until vlc comes back.

[FD19372]

At this point, I would see if anyone is stupid enough to take on Hartnell's salary, and then do Timonen a favor for being a good player for us for a while, and trade him to a contender. Also, I would see what young help on D could be gotten for Read or Schenn but not Couturier. In a perfect world, I'd rather trade Coburn, but no one will want that contract unless it is part of a much bigger deal.  The organization has screwed itself into a corner because of its overloyalty of NTCs.  The farm system is getting a little better but still sucks in terms of almost NHL ready prospects.

[radoran]

I question the idea of giroux's playmaking skills. He has a great shot, good release, and a ton of puck control. He seems repetitive and predictable in his play making decisions, though.

Any way, to me, the giroux line is currently doing what it needs to do. Giroux isn't Crosby, isn't going to put up 120 points, and the team needs to move towards the three line build it is currently using. The first line isn't my worry, neither is the third. The second line needs to start contributing. Fix that and you'll see a large change. Which means: hold your trading horses until vlc comes back.

 

Giroux was touted as a highly skilled playmaking winger coming out of Junior.

 

The Flyers have a ridiculous fixation with having their captain be their first line center - Lindros, Primeau, Richards. They even converted Giroux to be it.

 

The few times they have gone otherwise, it was defense (Desjardins as a stopgap after Lindros, Hatcher (another stopgap) and Pronger with resumes from other teams and one of the worst decisions of post-lockout, Smith) or Forsberg (another fixation). 

 

Giroux should not be captain and he should not be playing center. This isn't a knock on Giroux. It's a knock on the people that thrust him into this position. His only standout success at the position was with Jagr on his wing eating up attention, opening up space. 

 

They did try him on VLC's wing - for a few shifts. I honestly think he could be a St. Louis-style player in that position. (he's got to go a long way before he's going to have MSL's drive and work ethic).

 

Where he is now is doing nobody any favors.

 

And whatever marginal and incremental progress is being made won't change that.

[aziz]

Giroux was touted as a highly skilled playmaking winger coming out of Junior.

 

sure, but junior is like playing NHL94 on your Nintendo, against the computer.  figure out the timing of the one-timer, and the assists just roll right in.  as an NHL playmaker, giroux seems to have a shallow bag of tricks, and he seems to be scouted easily and effectively.  as a shooter, though, he is up there with the best of them.

 

but whatever, what is going on now is all that i need to see. 9 points in 10 games, i'm good with that.  it means there has to be a significant amount of secondary scoring, and that hasn't been there.  teriary scoring, yes, but the second line is the weak link right now.

 

giroux isn't turning out to be in the conversation with crosby, malkin, ovechkin, stamkos, et al as the best players in the world.  that's ok.  he is very good, and he is producing at a very good rate.  put a bunch of pretty good around him and things will be alright.

[radoran]

sure, but junior is like playing NHL94 on your Nintendo, against the computer.  figure out the timing of the one-timer, and the assists just roll right in.  as an NHL playmaker, giroux seems to have a shallow bag of tricks, and he seems to be scouted easily and effectively.  as a shooter, though, he is up there with the best of them.

 

but whatever, what is going on now is all that i need to see. 9 points in 10 games, i'm good with that.  it means there has to be a significant amount of secondary scoring, and that hasn't been there.  teriary scoring, yes, but the second line is the weak link right now.

 

giroux isn't turning out to be in the conversation with crosby, malkin, ovechkin, stamkos, et al as the best players in the world.  that's ok.  he is very good, and he is producing at a very good rate.  put a bunch of pretty good around him and things will be alright.

 

I'm not saying he's not a productive player. I said he could be a Martin St. Louis type player if used correctly. I've previously compared his potential to Forsberg.

 

He's not being used correctly - that's the problem. Which you neatly avoided addressing beyond the Nintendo reference. A guy who never played center and never was a captain before the NHL. 

 

The Sabres took a capable second line winger and tried to make him their first line center and blamed him when it didn't work out. Giroux is 1000x the player Ville Leino is, but if you force square pegs into round holes, sometimes the results aren't all that productive.

 

He's a PPG player, but he's turning into a Mats Sundin-style PPG player.

 

Let's just say I have much higher hopes for (and beliefs in) Giroux than Mats Sundin.

 

This isn't at all about my belief that Giroux can be a productive player, it's about my belief that he can be a more  productive player if used correctly.

 

Nintendo, Xbox, PlayStation, Wii notwithstanding.

[aziz]

@radoran

 

agree with all of that, nice post.

[JackStraw]

I've previously compared his potential to Forsberg.

 

Wow. I would say Forsberg is one of the 10 best centers ever to play the game. I'm a Giroux fan but I don't think he'll ever be as good as Forsberg.

 

Let's just say I have much higher hopes for (and beliefs in) Giroux than Mats Sundin.

 

Another Hall of Famer. And you have higher hopes for G?

 

I like Giroux, a lot. Tons of skill but probably not the highest hockey IQ you'll ever see. I can live with that, he should be around a PPG player for a while. But I don't think I'd put him in the same class as Forsberg or Sundin.

[radoran]

Wow. I would say Forsberg is one of the 10 best centers ever to play the game. I'm a Giroux fan but I don't think he'll ever be as good as Forsberg.

 

Another Hall of Famer. And you have higher hopes for G?

 

I like Giroux, a lot. Tons of skill but probably not the highest hockey IQ you'll ever see. I can live with that, he should be around a PPG player for a while. But I don't think I'd put him in the same class as Forsberg or Sundin.

 

I do think Giroux has (had?) a high(er?) ceiling, but am concerned as to whether or not he will reach it.

 

I don't feel that playing first line center is the best thing for him - and have already noted that he is a PPG player at that position.

 

Again, I think he could be better if used in a different role. It would also free up some of the thousand other centers on the roster* to play their actual position.

 

As for Sundin, I find him to be among the most overrated players ever. For me (and many Leafs fans) he was the classic guy that scores goals 3 and 5 in a 6-1 win. Hall of Famer? Yeah - but he didn't "lead" his teams anywhere IMO. A great example IMO of how stats can deceive.

 

I am fully aware that YMMV.

 

 

 

* hyperbole

[JackStraw]

Well, I would love to be proven wrong. I guess I can see the argument regarding Sundin, although I think Giroux has a long way to go before he can claim to match Sundin's career.

[radoran]

Well, I would love to be proven wrong. I guess I can see the argument regarding Sundin, although I think Giroux has a long way to go before he can claim to match Sundin's career.

 

I hope to God he doesn't match Sundin's career.

 

I'd like to see the Flyers win a Cup, after all

[fanaticV3.0]

Lets face it, our team is mediocre, we will probably finish around around the .500 mark, and if we make the playoffs we are not going too far. I also think this has to be the most boring Flyers team I have watched in a long time. So, on a positive note, it looks like our 25 year search for a good goalie is over. Mason has great skill , does not let in many bad goals and his mechanics and fluid movement are impressive after having so many bad goalies over the years.

 

Going forward I think our biggest needs are as follows....

 

An offensive defenseman with not only puck rushing skills, but also with playmaking skills and an accurate point shot. We have had defenseman who could skate over the years.. Timmo, Carle and Coburn, but none of them can shoot the puck and none are exceptional playmakers. Ghost is looking good, but is still about 30 pounds and a year or two away. Morin and Haag are also years away and haven't shown as much offensive skill yet. So do we sit back and be mediocre for a few more years or do we trade for a dman? With the emergence of Laughton, this makes either Schenn or Coots expendable, or do we move Laughton for a good young dman?

 

A pure finisher to play on Girouxs line, we really need a sniper to benefit from Girouxs playmaking skills, since no one on his line is playing that well and is a pure scoring threat, teams are keying on Giroux and shutting him down. As its been written many times, we also need some overall team speed, but of course a mix of speed and size is always best. The biggest problem of course is, even if we have a great draft, we cant expect an 18 year old to step in and be a big factor for us, so I fear we have 2 more years of mediocrity ahead of us.

 

p.s. and to those who keep talking about trading Coburn, if we trade him our already slow and immobile defense, becomes even slower....

 

No, no, no, we need a good all around defenseman, not some one-way, non-defense playing schlep. We already have Streight for that. I think we all agree on one guy up front and one on the blue line though. It seems pretty obvious those are the biggest needs. I think things will fall into place with those players. I just don't agree on the offensive defenseman though. If he can put up points that's great, but no one-way players please. I don' t think you have to wait to get one though. I'd try any time between now and this off season.

 

I would probably trade Laughton before Schenn or Couturier.

[RonJeremy]

@fanaticV3.0, id love an all around dman, when I say offensive dman,  im hoping for a guy that can actually play defense too, but with good offensive skills. I certainly don't want a another Streit, maybe a modern day Behn Wilson, the way he played in his first 2 seasons.  I thought Bogosian on Winnipeg, had the tools to be a good all around dman, but I don't get to see much of him. 

[fanaticV3.0]

@fanaticV3.0, id love an all around dman, when I say offensive dman,  im hoping for a guy that can actually play defense too, but with good offensive skills. I certainly don't want a another Streit, maybe a modern day Behn Wilson, the way he played in his first 2 seasons.  I thought Bogosian on Winnipeg, had the tools to be a good all around dman, but I don't get to see much of him. 

 

Oh ok. I agree. I want an all-around good defenseman too. I hate one-way defenseman. I'm not interested in a guy who can't actually do what the name of his position says.

Edited December 17, 2013 by fanaticV3.0

[doom88]

Oh ok. I agree. I want an all-around good defenseman too. I hate one-way defenseman. I'm not interested in a guy who can't actually do what the name of his position says.

We might not always agree, but you just nailed it. I hate the Mike Green "defense"man.