caught up to us tonight

[mojo1917]

But it is not Raffl vs McGinn...

That is my point.

I don't see where one player affects the others lot.

Other than they both underwhelm at wing they have little in common with their games.

And let me say this again, I'm not either one of the coaches that preferred for Tye to ride the bus I the A.

But there are two NHL coaches that have , one of them did it without having the "benefit "of having Michael Raffl on the roster.

I think the manner in which McGinn scored his goals could help the Flyers he goes hard to the net, I have acknowledged that.

I also see that McGinn has average to minus speed on a team that needs more players with plus speed.

[hf101]

I don't really like either player, but what is worse imo is there isn't another Phantom offensive player I'd like to see on the Flyers roster.   :wacko:

[ruxpin]

But it is not Raffl vs McGinn...

That is my point.

I don't see where one player affects the others lot.

Other than they both underwhelm at wing they have little in common with their games.

And let me say this again, I'm not either one of the coaches that preferred for Tye to ride the bus I the A.

But there are two NHL coaches that have , one of them did it without having the "benefit "of having Michael Raffl on the roster.

I think the manner in which McGinn scored his goals could help the Flyers he goes hard to the net, I have acknowledged that.

I also see that McGinn has average to minus speed on a team that needs more players with plus speed.

 

 

First, I don't see any real appreciable speed from Raffl, but he's not Rathje either.  I think he has okay speed, but he could skate like the wind; if he skates with no particular purpose I don't see what difference it makes how fast he gets there.   

 

But I disagree with the above bolded--actually, I agree with what you said regarding both being underwhelming at wing and little in common, but I disagree with the conclusion drawn.  I think one is on the team (Raffl) because the other is not.  If McGinn was up, Raffl couldn't be.  There simply isn't room for both.  And it's not a matter of Rosehill vs. McGinn or any of that because of the cap and because you're not going to sit the NHL one-way contract player.  Not for McGinn, anyway.

 

So despite the fact I think you're correct about their being dissimilar players, I do think the roster spot is McGinn vs. Raffl.   Ultimately, who cares.  My money says they're both ultimately worthless.

 

And I know I'm repeating myself, but I truly believe it was not two coaches that jettisoned McGinn.  I think that was largely Berube in both instances.  I don't think it was Lavy that ditched him due to lousy work ethic.  I mean, he apparently was no longer demanding work ethic.

 

McGinn has to be a work ethic thing, right?   Have you honestly seen anything that supports that (I don't get to the games and can only go with what is on camera.  I'll yield to anyone that see's it in person and whose view is not, therefore, limited)?   Or do you think it's a practice/weight room/etc. thing?

[ruxpin]

I don't really like either player, but what is worse imo is there isn't another Phantom offensive player I'd like to see on the Flyers roster.   :wacko:

 

Boy, ain't that a mouthful.  Accurate mouthful, too.

[mojo1917]

@hf101

Oh there are plenty of "offensive "players on the phantoms.

@ruxpin

I see your point with regard to the salary cap and contract status now, I was not factoring that into my thinking at all.

[ruxpin]

Oh there are plenty of "offensive "players on the phantoms.

 

LOL  Nicely played.

[The Quigster]

Whatever strange things Raffl has to offer,it appears Voracek must have taught him.

[JackStraw]

But it is not Raffl vs McGinn...
That is my point.
I don't see where one player affects the others lot.
Other than they both underwhelm at wing they have little in common with their games

 

Exactly exact. If the team needs a power forward type, they go for McGinn. If they need a two-way winger type, they go for Raffl. If they need both types, they go for both players.

[Howie58]

Greetings:

What is the benefit-cost of Downie and Rinaldo?  Their penalties are really hurting.

 

Howie

[doom88]

Greetings:

What is the benefit-cost of Downie and Rinaldo? Their penalties are really hurting.

Howie

Well, Downie has a PP goal, and is a catalyst for his line with Read and Couturier. Rinaldo is killing penalties, and playing well. That trip was not a good call in my opinion.

Love how it's okay for Detroit to hold and interfere all day, but if a Flyer blinks, to the box they go. **** Detroit and their diving and over dramatic acting to get PPs. You would have thought Hartnell was Mike Tyson the way the Wing played that up. Gotta lay down extra long and keep the head down by the bench until the call is made. Scum.

And I've totally derailed, sorry about that.

[murraycraven]

Well, Downie has a PP goal, and is a catalyst for his line with Read and Couturier. Rinaldo is killing penalties, and playing well. That trip was not a good call in my opinion.

Love how it's okay for Detroit to hold and interfere all day, but if a Flyer blinks, to the box they go. **** Detroit and their diving and over dramatic acting to get PPs. You would have thought Hartnell was Mike Tyson the way the Wing played that up. Gotta lay down extra long and keep the head down by the bench until the call is made. Scum.

And I've totally derailed, sorry about that.

You just read my mind Doom!

Nice work!

[doom88]

Somehow, the closest ref never called the mega hook in the third! Thankfully, the backside ref had some integrity, and now the game is tied.

It's as bad as playing in Montreal.

[murraycraven]

Cooter is just playing great hockey... Great hockey.

The one thing I like more than anything from tonight is G looks to be shooting well. Looks like he has velocity back on it.... Let's hope it continues bc I have been blasting him lately. His defense still needs work on the back check but he is looking dangerous

[doom88]

Cooter is just playing great hockey... Great hockey.

The one thing I like more than anything from tonight is G looks to be shooting well. Looks like he has velocity back on it.... Let's hope it continues bc I have been blasting him lately. His defense still needs work on the back check but he is looking dangerous

Agreed, with caveats. Couturier I think is flourishing in a new role for him. I kind of thought he always showed flashes, but never had the linemates. Giroux is shooting better, but his ego needs to be knocked down a peg. He still tries going in 1 on 4, and has poor passing decisions.

[doom88]

ARGH, that's NOT a hook (Couturier). That's a ******* cheating Red Wing, aka a Red Wing, holding the stick. The chicken wing move IS HOLDING THE STICK DAMMIT. Worst case you need to call both. Idiot refs.

[murraycraven]

Doom... Totally agree about G. That is why I hope he does not make team Canada

[doom88]

Doom... Totally agree about G. That is why I hope he does not make team Canada

I have mixed thoughts there. I am leaning towards hoping he makes it and develops by virtue of training with the best, and with different coaches. Just having more varied experience could help his everyday game. I think.

[flyerrod]

You want to talk about numbers? Ok, let's talk about numbers. How about these?

15GP 0G, 1A, .07 ppg, -4

18GP, 3G, 2A, .28ppg, 0

6GP, 3G, 0A, .50ppg, +1

Those are Raffl and McGinn's numbers for the NATIONAL HOCKEY LEAGUE. So, while you're busy bragging about what Raffl has done in some Euro league, and could do in the NHL based on that, I'm going to look at what they've both already done in the bigs.

 

All I am going to say is there are not enough games there to make a realistic comparison...........Sound familiar? But if you want to go there, Couturier with his 4 point night is now averaging 1.2 PPG (for his last 10 games) since being teamed with Downie/Read. Huh....who knew?

Edited December 5, 2013 by flyerrod

[fanaticV3.0]

All I am going to say is there are not enough games there to make a realistic comparison...........Sound familiar? But if you want to go there, Couturier with his 4 point night is now averaging 1.2 PPG (for his last 10 games) since being teamed with Downie/Read. Huh....who knew?

 

Raffl is not going to suddenly "turn it on". He's not a points producer. Get over it.

 

Sean Couturier is clearly the best player in the league and should be our first line center. He might even be capable of playing wing for himself too.

[fanaticV3.0]

I personally am not seeing what some others are with Raffl.  It's been pointed out that he did well in Europe, but I remember a European who was the best player in the world that wasn't in the NHL.  And then he wasn't in the NHL again.

 

McGinn had two consecutive seasons in the Q where he was better than a PPG player (1.24 and 1.52).  Now, it was the Q and he hasn't done terrific on the Phantoms, but  one thing I do know is Raffl has 1 POINT in 15 games and McGinn has 3 GOALS in 6 games, both with roughly the same ATOI. (12:40 McGinn to 12:23 Raffl).   

 

I know we're not supposed to look at actual stats for such a small sampling for both but clearly 3G/6 is better than 1P/15  no matter how you slice it and no matter if you use real math or whatever crap they're currently teaching in American public schools.  And  that's in the actual league the Flyers play in (the NHL) and not Europe or the Q or the AHL or the Urban League or any other irrelevant place.

 

People are welcome to "see something [they] like" in Raffl.   I'm not sure I understand what that is, though.  He skates pretty?   Is it defense?  McGinn was a +1 and Raffl is a -4.  And neither is arguably playing against "better talent" as both spent time on the top line and both on the 4th line.

 

Raffl is killing some penalties?  Is this what makes him better?   I'll actually accept that premise.  But then again, Rinaldo has killed a couple, too, so apparently they'll let the popcorn guy do that.

 

Clearly, for whatever reason, the Flyers seem to agree with the liking Raffl and not liking McGinn.  Whatever the reason, it has NOT shown itself on the ice during a game.  Not in results, anyway, because the numbers simply don't show it.

 

And let's not exaggerate the idea that TWO coaches have ditched McGinn.  Berube was and is arguably a common thread in both instances.  I have no problem with a theory that Berube didn't like McGinn when Lavy was still here and effected his playing time and his longevity on the big club.  I'm fine if Berube doesn't like him.  I'm sure it's not about color swatches or choice off a menu somewhere.  I'm sure it's something we're not seeing in practice or something reflecting work ethic away from the play that the camera doesn't show (again, though, whatever this is is NOT reflected in results).

 

Of the two, I personally would rather see McGinn based solely on actual results and because typically I know when McGinn is on the ice.  I like his edge.  I like his presence and what he brings.  I rarely even notice Raffl and quickly forget afterward.  Also would prefer McGinn because Raffl--I don't care if he's getting used to the North American game or Chinese Checkers--doesn't seem like he could hit the net if he stood inside it. 

 

The thing that kind of cracks me up, though, is the back and forth about two utterly forgettable players that will never amount to anything more than Patrick Brent Thoresen Fedyk if they're extremely lucky.  Neither one is going to help this team now or in the future in any appreciable way.

 

You're not seeing it because there's nothing there. He hasn't done a single thing that has resulted in anything significant for this team. He's a total non-factor.

 

There is a real bad case of "looks good to me" amongst some folk here. They ignore reality over what their "eyes" tell them. I love a good role player as much as the next person. Some of my favorite players in recent memory have been third liners. But this guy is a complete and total non-factor. He doesn't do anything that helps the team win. They aren't screwed without him and could certainly "survive" if someone else - who has actually contributed - took his place. This guy is Somik or Thoresen. He's not going to be in the league in a year. He'll play with maybe one more team before he goes back to Europe.

[CoachX]

I just can't get past how history repeats itself with this team. They hire coaches who are former Flyers and that never works. they promote young stars to captain and that doesn't work. And they sign aging veteran stars who always seem to have lingering injuries that become more prominent when the team sucks.

 

I wonder if guys like VLC and Forsberg come to Philly, see the disfunction, then make the most of rest and rehab ?

[radoran]

I just can't get past how history repeats itself with this team. They hire coaches who are former Flyers and that never works. they promote young stars to captain and that doesn't work. And they sign aging veteran stars who always seem to have lingering injuries that become more prominent when the team sucks.

 

I wonder if guys like VLC and Forsberg come to Philly, see the disfunction, then make the most of rest and rehab ?

 

I feel compelled to point out that Homer has made some good trades.

 

Aside from that, you're spot on

[CoachX]

you are referring to Upshall for Carcillo right?

[fanaticV3.0]

I just can't get past how history repeats itself with this team. They hire coaches who are former Flyers and that never works. they promote young stars to captain and that doesn't work. And they sign aging veteran stars who always seem to have lingering injuries that become more prominent when the team sucks.

 

I wonder if guys like VLC and Forsberg come to Philly, see the disfunction, then make the most of rest and rehab ?

 

Laviolette, Hitchcock, Cashman, Neilson, and Ramsey never played a single game for the Flyers.

[CoachX]

@fanaticV3.0

 

But Berube, Barber, Holmgren, Stevens and Murray did. And let's not overlook Clarke as GM, President and whatever else title he held, and, Holmgren as GM

 

The point is..... in house loyalty is great, and respectible, but it isn't winning any Stanley Cups

Edited December 9, 2013 by CoachX