Captain Clueless: The Fall from Grace

[Digityman]

Really, you think Nash, Parise, Backstrom, Vanek, Krejci can do things with the puck that G can't? G's skills are off the charts, he may not be producing, but in terms of pure skill, I don't agree with a lot of guys on your list.

Im with you. This is temporary with Giroux.

[canoli]

I'm sure it's temporary but it's a "long" temporary! .... because including last season he's at 19 or 20 games without a goal.

 

and not to sidetrack the thread too much but it's hardly just Giroux.

 

Hartnell - ZERO points (35 games since his last assist)

Timonen - ZERO points

 

Streit - ZERO goals

Couturier - ZERO goals

Simmonds - 1 goal

Voracheck - 1 goal

 

Mez - 1 assist

Rinaldo - 1 assist

Raffl - 1 assist

 

Last night Glenn "Chico" Resch talked a lot about the Flyers season. Usually I can't stomach listening to the guy but he was good last night he really was. His point was that it's just unacceptable to have ZERO points or ZERO goals 12 games in. "Snake bit," squeezing the stick yes yes but he says "at some point you have to try something different. You can't just go 12 games without a point if you're Scott Hartnell or Kimmo Timonen. You can't not score goals if you're Claude Giroux."

 

He's right. Whatever that "something different" is you have to figure it out. You're getting paid millions of dollars - paid at an "elite" level or close to it - to produce points and you're not producing. Your entire team is suffering. You already got one HC fired. The GM is next. Forget what you think of Homer these droughts are not his fault. They weren't Laviolette's either.

 

If this were Week 2 I could understand. We all know players go through bad streaks but we're a month into the season...

Streit=no goals, Couturier=no goals...Giroux=no goals - Hartnell and Timonen=no points. Come on...

Edited November 3, 2013 by canoli

[doom88]

Agreed canoli, it isn't management this time. It's definitely the players.

[FlyersMKD]

As you should, sorry if I was not clear .

Just need to find a guy with a cool voice to do the narrative. Morgan Freeman?

 

Jeremy Irons?

[Mad Dog]

Crosby, Malkin, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Toews, Patrick Kane, Tavares, Nash, Parise, Ovechkin, Backstrom, Eric Staal, Stamkos, Vanek, Krejci

And I didn't even mention top skilled defenseman or goalies. Giroux is overrated.

OK... Now let's not get carried away here. OK? Yes, he is having a dismal season. There is no denying that. But come' on now. I will give you Ovechkin, Tavares, Toews, Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos. But are you seriously trying to compare Nash, Eric Staal, Krejci, and worst of all, Vanek to Giroux? Vanek and Nash, in particular, are both as one-dimensional as they come. And as much as I like Parise's, Backstrom's, and Krejci's game, they can't even *dream* doing things Giroux can.

 

It's not so difficult to grill the guy considering how terrible of a season he is having. He did make himself an easy target. But we all saw for several years what he could do. I have no plausible explanation for why he has zero goals and is -9 this season. He is struggling. But you don't score 93 points by accident. The skills that we have all seen him display are just sick. No matter who is on his wings, he always seemed (until now, that is) to get his assists.

 

The whole team is being a joke this year, and it started last season. He is being a big part of the problem.  I will even dare to go as far as say he *may* be actually the biggest part of the problem. Sure. But again, you either have skills or you don't. It's one thing to blame him for the Flyers' struggles. But to call him overrated is just being disingenuous IMO.  Just about every NHL team would be lining up to sign Giroux to their roster.

Edited November 3, 2013 by Mad Dog

[murraycraven]

Better hope it is temporary bc 8m per 8 more years...

[doom88]

I'll admit Staal was a reach, but the skills of the rest I think are better. One flash of brilliance doesn't make a career. Rinaldo has had a pretty goal too. I interpreted skills as fancy offensive stuff for forwards, like stick handling, sniping, and precise passing.

I'm partially downgrading Giroux because of his slump, penchant for blind passes to nowhere, and relatively inaccurate shot. At what point does a slump turn to the norm, and prior success turn to a fluke? Giroux is not as bad as he's showing now, but may have played above his ability/skill for his peaks. He isn't a guy who can hit those corners above the goalies' shoulders, and frankly gets lucky with his passes. His stick handling was great, but that's all but gone with his confidence. Right now, I think that list is reasonably fair, assuming his stick handling returns.

[doom88]

Overrated doesn't mean he sucks and is totally useless. Just, he's not as good as his hype. He's still quite valuable.

[Mad Dog]

I'll admit Staal was a reach, but the skills of the rest I think are better.

 

 

First of all, let's start off with comparing apples to apples.  Comparing a center to wingers is comparing apples to oranges.

 

The highest production Krejci had was 73 points.  But looking at his career in totality, 63 points seems like a norm.  And that's even taking into consideraiton that he always had a luxury of having far superior wingers than Giroux.  I would take dishing out to Lucic, Horton and Seguin over an inconsistent Voracek and goofy Hartnell any day of a week.  A very nice player.  Actually, a very good player, but Krejci is not a star, let alone a superstar. 

I already admitted that Crosby, Malkin, Towes, and Tavares are better then Giroux. And Towes, I am actually not really sure is hand down better than Giroux. The stats are very similar. Where Towes has a clear edge over Giroux is his leadership skills. I won't argue with you there.

 

You can call 1 season a fluke. But the last 3 seasons Giroux had 76 points, 93 points and 48 points in a curtailed last season (which in a full season equates to 82 points). I am sorry, but three seasons with this type of a production and having some real suspect wingers is not a fluke to me.

 

Something is off with him this season. This Flyers team is pathetic. It's unwatchable, actually. There is plenty of blame to go around, beginning with that contemptible old bastard Snider, whom I just can’t stand more and more, and this sorry excuse for a GM Holmgren.  And trust me, I am holding Giroux very responsible for this as well. No question. I would pay money to find out what it that is bothering him. Clearly, judging by this season, you can't call him a superstar. Far from it. But I refuse to disregard the previous 3 seasons like they didn't even exist. Sorry... When you are trying to do it, you are just not being objective.

[doom88]

Points don't always imply skill, see every player to play with Lemieux, Crosby, etc. Krejci is the Bruins catalyst I believe, and their offense goes as he does. His skill level is very high, despite being restricted by a defensive system.

I usually agree about comparing apples to oranges vis a vis centers and wingers, but the original point from jammer was the category of players without distinction. I made a list of forwards, not even including more skilled goalies and defenders.

Also, I'm not strong in the western conference, so I think I missed a few.

I appreciate the defense of Giroux, I really do. I also hope he one day becomes the player some (not I) think he can be. However, he is not that guy yet nor now.