Who stays and who goes....aka..trades we all know will occur sooner than later....

[doom88]

So I guess Coburn is the new Carle?

[The Quigster]

Giroux without Jagr (you guys remember him right?) is like a rudder without a boat!

[Mario99]

There are no untouchables.

 

I would trade anyone and all who brings me back youth skill and picks
This team stinks and need of total rebuilding from Ed on down

Edited October 18, 2013 by hf101
Added topic in post to merge in another thread

[ruxpin]

 Holmgren should have been never hired for the position.  They guy is incompetent.

 

I think you and I both said as much when he was promoted.  At the time, I threw in the caveat that I would wait and see and could be proven wrong (I think you likely said something similar).   I've waited.  I've seen.  Haven't been proven wrong, except that it may be worse than I thought.

[mojo1917]

So I guess Coburn is the new Carle?

but without the offensive ability.  He's been in the frame on my monitor for  a lot of goals against....

I just don't think he's going to realize the potential he had prior to getting his face smashed. He's a bottom pairing guy (4-6)on about half the teams in the league.

he's not a minute eater that you can trust, which is how i always viewed Carle, so no he's not the new Carle he's worse.

[ruxpin]

@doom88

 

I get your point, but answering strictly for myself:   I always liked Carle and defended him at every turn.  I've never liked Coburn.

[doom88]

@doom88

I get your point, but answering strictly for myself: I always liked Carle and defended him at every turn. I've never liked Coburn.

Surprisingly, I agree.

[radoran]

@doom88

 

I get your point, but answering strictly for myself:   I always liked Carle and defended him at every turn.  I've never liked Coburn.

 

I liked Coburn when they got him for Zhitnik. Been kinda "meh" since then. Opinion dropping rapidly.

[Digityman]

My Two Cents:

 

 

GO:  In order of importance

 

Timmonen - Due to age and respect I'd like to see him traded to a contender and fetch a prospect at trade deadline.  I like him and he really has been the anchor of the defense for a long time.  I believe he has been undervalued by us fans but his time is up.

 

Harnell - He has to go or be on the 3rd line.  Regardless of the huge contract he has, he isn't a 1st line player.  If you can trade him for a bag of pucks (assuming he waives his NTC) do it!  Addition by subtraction.

 

Talbot - He's a solid 3rd line center and PK killer but this team is heavy on centers.  He doesn't bring anything offensively.  There might be some demand for him around the trade deadline.

 

Coburn - At 4.5m per year and a UFA in 3 years, he's contact isn't that bad for what he brings.  He hasn't been the best lately but with a solid partner and better team defense, I think he wouldn't stand out as much.  If you can get a decent return for him at the deadline, it's probably better to move him.

 

Emery – If you can get something at the deadline for him, do it.  One of the kids can sit on the bench and can play when Mason gets tired.  This team is 2-3 years from competing. 

 

Meszaros, Rosehill, Hall and Newbury for obvious reasons.  Play the kids for a change.

 

Keep:

Lecavalier - He will take a lot of pressure off of Giroux.  Unless you can get him to waive his NTC, he's not going anywhere.
 

Streit - Nobody is taking his salary.  Have to ride it out.
 

Giroux - 25 years old.  Come on guys, he's a world class player having a crappy year.
 

Voracek  - 23 years old.  Keep him.  He's got the skill to be a top 10 scorer for the next 10 years
 

Simmonds - 24 years old.  He hasn't hit his prime.  He's a spitfire on the ice and he needs some more time to develop.
 

B. Schenn - 21 years old.  I see him as a Primeau type player with a little more offensive upside.  Let him develop.
 

McGinn - 22 years old.  Let him stay with the big club and develop
 

Rinaldo - 23 years old.  You always notice him and he has skill.
 

Couturier - 20 years old.  He's slow.  Anybody remember Handzus or Sharp?  The kid is going to be a really good player.
 

Gustafsson - 24 years old.  He's going to be a good player.  You can see him getting better the more he plays.
 

L. Schenn - 23 years old.  He's developing nicely and will be solid #3-4 in 5 years (Morin, Hagg, Ekblad, Schenn, Gus, ...)
 

Mason - 25 years old.  Give him a 3 year contract.  Let him develop with the team
 

Grossmann - 28 years old.  He's a decent defender and will be a nice stop-gap until our young d-men develop

 

Keep this core of young guys together and add pieces through the draft or other's prospects. 

Do this for 2-3 years and this team will compete for a cup.

 

 

[radoran]

Keep:

Lecavalier - He will take a lot of pressure off of Giroux.  Unless you can get him to waive his NTC, he's not going anywhere.

 

I've been banging this drum for a while, but I'd put Giroux on VLC's wing - let VLC be the Jagr on that line.

[caluso]

 

again..saw this on the HF Boards and wanted to share.....thoughts?  some of my comments are in red.

 

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1518793

 

Which Players Should be Traded and Not Traded

It is still way too early to throw in the towel, but it is very plausible that pretty soon this team may be out of the playoff contention. This begs the questions who deserves or should be traded:

1. Timmonen - he could probably yield a good prospect and draft prospect. He is not part of the future of this team. (who will take him at his age?)

2. Coburn - he is overrated and sucks. I cannot wait to see him wear another jersey. (Agreed...#3 or #4 d-man at best now)

3. Simmonds - he is highly overrated. He can score but is an awful passer and often loses board battles despite his size. In my opinion, he is a third line player - definitely not top 6. If we can get an excellent prospect back it is worth considering. (my gut reaction says no way..he is a Flyer.)

4. Meszaros- whatever we get back is a plus. Injuries ruined his development and possibly his career. (Agreed...injuries have ruined his career)

5. Grossman - he is a decent defenseman who is highly overrated because our defense is so pathetic. He is not a good passer and has no offensive ability. We do not need 6 stay at home defenseman. Schenn is a much better defenseman who plays a similar game.

6. Talbot - another fan favorite who should go depending on the return. If we can get a second for him or a good prospect he should be traded. He is only signed for 2 more years and if the return is good he should be traded. (Good locker room guy..hate to see him go..BUT..if we can get something decent then I pull the trigger)

Players who should not be traded.

1. Couturier - he is 20 years old. Everybody needs to chill out and be patient with him.

2. Voracek - he is a special player who is having a horrible season.

3. Giroux - see above.

4. Lecavalier - he is a great player on a bad team. Hopefully we can turn it around next season. (Some will disagree with me, but I say he is tradable. He has a moster contract that will eat cap space.  I disagreed from day 1 with this signing.  Simply a commodity the Flyers cannot afford)

5. Mason - he has played very well despite the team in front of him.

6. B. Schenn - he is still young and getting better. We need to be patient.

7. L. Schenn - he is very physical, can pass and has some offensive acumen. Not a great player but very solid.

8. Read - he is a hardworker who made the NHL by sheer will. He can shoot, pass the puck, play a 2 way game etc.. He should be kept.

 

be patient with Couturier? why, are the players in the NHL going to get slower and less physical?

 

let's face it, he was a bad pick. and, to say "he's only 20" is a bit of wishful thinking - there are plenty of players in the NHL who are his age or younger, 

Edited October 18, 2013 by caluso

[ruxpin]

If I can move Lecavalier at the deadline, I do it.  If he has a fairly decent season and someone thinks he helps him for a Cup run, he might like another sniff.  

 

I doubt it happens.

 

Even at signing, I really preferred them give the kids a chance IN THE POSITION they are meant for.

[Jmdodgesrt4]

Most of the high priced vets will be traded closer to deadline because of cap hit and to get best value for our player. I advise for everyone to hope that no younger player is traded. It's time for a rebuild. Stay young and go younger. I don't think we are to far from turning this team around. Maybe our d movement and choices with brain farts can be handled in house now like some of the dmen we have in the a? Players I wouldn't mind seeing moved , even if we have to go into the stands for bodies to play the position .... Coby, mezz, kimmo, grossman, talbot, everybody on forth line minus rinaldo.

[Digityman]

be patient with Couturier? why, are the players in the NHL going to get slower and less physical?

 

let's face it, he was a bad pick. and, to say "he's only 20" is a bit of wishful thinking - there are plenty of players in the NHL who are his age or younger, 

 

There are a number of players in the league that are "slow" but make up for it with their vision/skill.

There is also a reason that every team asks for Couturier or Schenn in a trade.   

[OccamsRazor]

It is still way too early to throw in the towel, but it is very plausible that pretty soon this team may be out of the playoff contention. This begs the questions who deserves or should be traded:

 

 

 

 

 

Coburn is my first to go... Talbot traded as well...Rosehill for anything...i'd even listen to ideas for Simmer. Jake too. If they are going to lose maybe some youth should replace some of these guys...oh yeah i'll take anything for Mezz as well.

 

Hell if the price is right both Schenn brothers too. Basically damn near everybody.

 

But would maybe just prefer to axe Homer before one of his jobsaving desperation moves, just insert Hexy.

[Bertmega]

This again is a tough question to answer. The system that was  in place under Lavy allowed a lot creativity with the puck. Now we have a bunch of guys over thinking the play. It seems like they are always thinking pass, or set up, or even cycling the puck up high to the points. That is great with a fast team, or for a season or two. Now the entire NHL knows there scheme and their defense is slow and stupid. This creates so many turn overs. 

 

The problem is Holmgren. He basically took the 2007 Sabres squad made a blueprint and tried to sprinkle a little 2011 Bruins on top. This team just has to be blown up and the right pieces need to come in. Mason right now is my only keeper. The rest can be had if the price is right. 

[caluso]

There are a number of players in the league that are "slow" but make up for it with their vision/skill.

There is also a reason that every team asks for Couturier or Schenn in a trade.   

how do you know who every team asks for?

you know somebody in the organization? if so, tell them Holmgren sucks.

or, are you in the organization. if so, tell everybody Holmgren sucks.

or, perhaps you have no idea what you are talking about. if so, Holmgren still sucks.

[aziz]

i'd even listen to ideas for Simmer. Jake too. If they are going to lose maybe some youth should replace some of these guys

 

.....why?  voracek is 24.  simmonds 25.  you aren't getting much younger than them and still be sure you'd be getting an NHL player back.  how would moving them be anything other than shuffling things for the sake of shuffling things?

[Mad Dog]

I think you and I both said as much when he was promoted.  At the time, I threw in the caveat that I would wait and see and could be proven wrong (I think you likely said something similar).   I've waited.  I've seen.  Haven't been proven wrong, except that it may be worse than I thought.

And both of us caught some heat from people for even suggesting such a thing.  At the time, I understood why.  And to be fair to the guy, he did have quite an impressive off-season by dumping Forsberg and other remnants from the Clarke era. 

 

Somehow though, intuitively, I felt all along it was all fizzle, a mirage, and I knew the honeymoon of the fanbase with him was going to come to a crushing end at some point. 

 

Alas, my worst fears heppened to be justified.

[Digityman]

how do you know who every team asks for?

you know somebody in the organization? if so, tell them Holmgren sucks.

or, are you in the organization. if so, tell everybody Holmgren sucks.

or, perhaps you have no idea what you are talking about. if so, Holmgren still sucks.

 

I only know what is reported/rummored.  

He's 20 years old and shuts down the leagues best players night in and night out. 

Remember the Pens series where he shut down Malkin for the entire series?  

Everybody was cheering his name then.  

Name another 20 year old in the league that can do that. 

[radoran]

I only know what is reported/rummored.  

He's 20 years old and shuts down the leagues best players night in and night out. 

Remember the Pens series where he shut down Malkin for the entire series?  

Everybody was cheering his name then.  

Name another 20 year old in the league that can do that. 

 

I know this is a popular legend, but I'm a little unclear on the specifics.

 

He held Malkin to eight points in six games. Shut down for the entire series?

 

Who has he been shutting down "night in and night out" this season? Or last season, for that matter?

 

I like the player and appreciate his defensive play but I do think it is often overstated.

[OccamsRazor]

.....why?  voracek is 24.  simmonds 25.  you aren't getting much younger than them and still be sure you'd be getting an NHL player back.  how would moving them be anything other than shuffling things for the sake of shuffling things?

 

 

All i said is i'd listen...that is all i would need names before i would move them but they are young i know but i just stated i would listen to offers basically to offers for everyone...calm down i'm not just going to Homer it.

[pilldoc]

Bottom line...I don't want any trades/moves until Homer is gone.  I simply do not trust the man anymore.  Sadly he probably won't get his walking papers until after the season.