Snider - What a *******!

[ruxpin]

That would be funny if I didn't feel like I was 90.Things hurt now and for no apparent reason! I get out of bed in the morning and am like WTF am I sore?

 

 

I know the feeling.  Things would hurt worse for me if things hadn't started falling off.

[fanaticV3.0]

^^ This is exactly it.

Even if Holmgren wanted to build a team for the long run, how can he do that when Snider basically tells him to go out and get a goalie? What about Richards and Carter? From what I've read, he was pretty intimately involved in shipping them out of town. What about signing Streit and Lecavalier? Homer was put on "high alert" to make the playoffs, so even if he wanted to plan long-term, he was boxed in by Snider.

 

I'm pretty sure he's involved in just about every deal over a certain amount of money.

[ruxpin]

I'm pretty sure he's involved in just about every deal over a certain amount of money.

 

>  $19.95

[fanaticV3.0]

>  $19.95

 

Well sh!t, that means he is involved in the decisions of what vendors they use in the concessions, because that's the price of a beer and a few other items at the food stands.

[aziz]

I don't think it really matters whether the coach is from within the organization or from outside. As @fanataicV3.0   correctly pointed out, 2 of the last 3 are from the outside.

 

i think the thing is that it calls into question the system of evaluation is being used to fill positions.  the best person for the job versus an inbred he's-one-of-ours approach.  or at least a he's-worked-with-us-before one.

 

and...2 of 3?

 

berube - from within

laviolette - from outside

stevens - from within

hitchcock - from within (former assistant)

barber - from within

ramsay - from within (again, assistant)

neilson - from outside

 

so..that's going back, what, 15 years?  and 2 of 7 have been external hires.  i dunno.  putting that much weight on past experiences with a guy before letting him be your coach really narrows the field, doesn't it?

Edited October 14, 2013 by aziz

[ruxpin]

so..that's going back, what, 15 years?  and 2 of 7 have been external hires.  i dunno.  putting that much weight on past experiences with a guy before letting him be your coach really narrows the field, doesn't it?

 

Yes, unless you're limiting it to former players in the last 10 years.  Then it's a fairly large pool.

 

Agree with your post, though.

[ruxpin]

and...2 of 3?
 
berube - from within
laviolette - from outside
stevens - from within
hitchcock - from within (former assistant)

 

I wasn't counting Berube (first week) in my 2 of 3.    Hitchcock, as you frame it, was from "within" but he hadn't been here in about a decade and got his head coaching pedigree from the outside, so I classified him as "outside."   I can definitely accept the "within" title, though.

[murraycraven]

Well ****, that means he is involved in the decisions of what vendors they use in the concessions, because that's the price of a beer and a few other items at the food stands.

 

 

It owuld explain why he gets to defensive about the decisions that have been made... b/c he is the one making them.

[fanaticV3.0]

i think the thing is that it calls into question the system of evaluation is being used to fill positions.  the best person for the job versus an inbred he's-one-of-ours approach.  or at least a he's-worked-with-us-before one.

 

and...2 of 3?

 

berube - from within

laviolette - from outside

stevens - from within

hitchcock - from within (former assistant)

barber - from within

ramsay - from within (again, assistant)

neilson - from outside

 

so..that's going back, what, 15 years?  and 2 of 7 have been external hires.  i dunno.  putting that much weight on past experiences with a guy before letting him be your coach really narrows the field, doesn't it?

 

That's some weak sh!t right there buddy.

[aziz]

That's some weak **** right there buddy.

 

 

is it?  he was holmgren's assistant.  seems pretty keeping with the insular to me.

[ruxpin]

is it?  he was holmgren's assistant.  seems pretty keeping with the insular to me.

 

I think it's fair.

 

But I think it fits into "connection" better than "within" since he was coming from another organIzation where he actually won a Cup and had seen "it done."

 

Splitting hairs on my part, though.

[aziz]

@ruxpin

 

well, i see hextall as more of the same, and he came from a club that won.  former player is a different thing than former assistant, but it's still going with someone you know first hand over a new direction entirely.  and that isn't always a bad thing, good people can be people you've worked with before.  hitchcock is a big example of that.  i just see the management of this team narrowing its vision to the exclusion of all others almost always, for good or ill.

[ruxpin]

@ruxpin

 

well, i see hextall as more of the same, and he came from a club that won.  former player is a different thing than former assistant, but it's still going with someone you know first hand over a new direction entirely.  and that isn't always a bad thing, good people can be people you've worked with before.  hitchcock is a big example of that.  i just see the management of this team narrowing its vision to the exclusion of all others almost always, for good or ill.

 

Yep, thought Hextall myself.   Good post.

[doom88]

The internal/external hire thing is overblown in my opinion. If a guy can coach, it doesn't matter where he came from.

[murraycraven]

Doom... While I agree I think the point is the Flyers are hyper focused on promoting from within. If that is indeed the case then you are not getting the best coach available.

[doom88]

If they were so good, why would they be available?

[murraycraven]

If they were so good, why would they be available?

LOL Doom... Cant argue that one... Touché!

[ruxpin]

If they were so good, why would they be available?

 

 

LOL.  Wow!

[ruxpin]

The internal/external hire thing is overblown in my opinion. If a guy can coach, it doesn't matter where he came from.

 

 

I am beginning to wonder if the "if a guy can coach" is answered with a resounding NO if coming from within.

 

Just being contrary; I actually agree on the coaching level.  

 

On the GM level, I don't think it matters in a theoretical sense, but in the Flyers' case I think it would be a good idea.

[radoran]

If they were so good, why would they be available?

 

In a league in which two teams fired coaches for not being able to bring them to a Cup, and then each hired the one the other just fired?

 

Don't even need a ninja for that one...

[brelic]

If they were so good, why would they be available?

 

[fanaticV3.0]

@ruxpin

 

well, i see hextall as more of the same, and he came from a club that won.  former player is a different thing than former assistant, but it's still going with someone you know first hand over a new direction entirely.  and that isn't always a bad thing, good people can be people you've worked with before.  hitchcock is a big example of that.  i just see the management of this team narrowing its vision to the exclusion of all others almost always, for good or ill.

 

Hitchcock and Hextall are not a good comparison. Hextall played 11 years here and in the front office for 7 before he came back for his 2nd stint (in management). Hitch was an assistant for 3 seasons. Hitch did not make a name for himself as a result of his time here. He's not known for his time here. It doesn't define who he is as a coach. He wasn't here long enough the first time around to be thought of as "a Flyer".

[fanaticV3.0]

It owuld explain why he gets to defensive about the decisions that have been made... b/c he is the one making them.

 

Absolutely.

[radoran]

Hitchcock and Hextall are not a good comparison. Hextall played 11 years here and in the front office for 7 before he came back for his 2nd stint (in management). Hitch was an assistant for 3 seasons. Hitch did not make a name for himself as a result of his time here. He's not known for his time here. It doesn't define who he is as a coach. He wasn't here long enough the first time around to be thought of as "a Flyer".

 

The Stars gave him the Kalamazoo job directly as a result of his time in Philadelphia. He was then promoted less than three years later to the Stars themselves.

 

Then there this:

 

"When we made that statement, we were worried that Ken was on his way to the Rangers," team chairman Ed Snider said. "Fortunately, that wasn't the case. We jumped in right away. He's exactly the coach this team needs."

Hitchcock, who served as an assistant coach in Philadelphia from 1990-93, was fired by the Stars in January. He met with Snider and general manager Bob Clarke on Monday, and worked out details on a four-year contract Tuesday.

"It's like home for me," Hitchcock said. "There isn't going to be a transition time."

 

and this

 

http://articles.latimes.com/2002/may/15/sports/sp-nhlnotes15

 

When the Philadelphia Flyers fired Bill Barber two weeks ago, they planned to conduct a long, exhaustive search to find a new coach.

It took only one interview.

Ken Hitchcock, who led the Dallas Stars to a Stanley Cup championship in 1999, was hired Tuesday to lead the Flyers. He was the only candidate to meet with the team.

Oh, heck, one more:

http://articles.mcall.com/2002-05-15/sports/3407401_1_bill-dineen-ken-hitchcock-flyer-mark-recchi

 

The so-called exhaustive search for a new coach that Philadelphia Flyers chairman Ed Snider announced two weeks ago began and ended with one candidate.

On Tuesday, after one day of meetings, the Flyers announced that they had signed 50-year-old Ken Hitchcock as the 15th head coach in the franchise's history, and the club's sixth head coach in six years.Hitchcock had a three-year run as an assistant coach with the Flyers from 1990-91 through 1993 under current assistant G.M. Paul Holmgren, as well as Bill Dineen.

....

"We always felt that Ken was our No. 1 choice," said Clarke. "For us, Ken was by far the person we wanted to coach our club and we felt it wasn't necessary to start interviewing if we were able to get Ken signed."

Hitchcock coached current Flyer Mark Recchi in juniors, as well as Simon Gagne at the Salt Lake City Olympics. He was at the World Championships and met up with current Flyers Justin Williams and Dan McGillis, who played for Team Canada after the Flyers were eliminated in the first round of the playoffs. Rick Tocchet played for the Flyers when Hitchcock served as an assistant.

"This is where it started. This is home for me," Hitchcock said of his career as an NHL coach.

You see any other "outside" guys who the Flyers bring in without talking to anyone else at all? 'cause I don't...

[ruxpin]

I don't remember. Who did the Flyers talk to before hiring Lavi?