flyercanuck Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Picture Cleary, Vinnie and Streit (and Kimmo) in 3 years, taking up about $17 million in capspace. And to think he just dumped broken down Briere and useless Bryz ...and we're headed down that same path. Yay! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted September 10, 2013 Author Share Posted September 10, 2013 @flyercanuck Picture our new GM having the built in excuse that Homer put him in a position where he cannot possibly compete. I can see that coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 @jammer2 Hey, at least 3 years from now we can look back at 2013 and say "Ya, but remember when we made the playoffs a couple years back, that was pretty good!". Or maybe Homer can trade Morin and Hagg (and a couple 1sts) to get rid of one or two of those contracts then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 I think when you look at this Cleary signing, you have to take into account Homer's mindset. His back is to the wall, he missed the playoffs in a town that does not accept that easily. Not only does Homer have to make the playoffs to save his job, they have to make a nice run, ie win at least one round and make an epic struggle out of the the next round. Any first round exit, or rolling over and playing dead in the second round means his tenure is done. This whole off season is not what is about what is best for the Flyers, it's about what can save Homer's job. Ed allows it to happen because it gives the Flyers the best chance of winning right now. That is why Streit, Vinny, and Cleary were added without any regard for the end of the contracts and how they might negatively effect the franchise. Either Homer will accomplish his goal, make the conference finals and be set up for one last run the following year, OR he will be fired, and somebody else will be left to clean up the mess and the cap consequences of giving all 3 of these guys more term and money than they deserved. At least, that's the way I see it. I've been saying for years, I HATE giving out all the roster spots before training camp even opens. It's very frustrating. The kids who play fantastic deserve a shot at making it out of camp. That part sucks. I do think that part of this is a guard against injuries though, the kids that shine, they will get their chances through injuries....it happens every year. If history is any indicator, the Flyers are jinxed when it comes to injuries, so much so, that injuries seem inevitable. This may be Homers way of guarding against that historical fact. I love what Cleary brings, I don't like Homer going all in and putting this franchise (once again) in win now mode, with no eye to the future. Once again, he has broken the cardinal sin, going all in WITHOUT A PROVEN GOALIE!!!!Jammer, Once again you make some excellent points. I believe you hit the nail on the head. This team is always in in WIN NOW mode with very little regard to the future. This has been th MO of this franchise for years. This is the crux of the problem. I agree, I don't mind the Vinny deal, however it is the length of said contract. I understand the frustration Homer must have on the blue line, but do we really need Striet. I know what he brings and I'm not arguing that. It just seems like we are acquiring older players again and the younger guys seem to be pushed aside. Obviously there are some spots that are guaranteed, ..Jake / Roo / Simmer/ Schenn, but I agree make the players earn their keep for the other spots. Agree, love what Clary can bring, but he is another older player along with Gill. Maybe I'm delusional, but I keep hoping that once Progers and Kimmo's salary comes off the books ( Assuming this is Timmo's last year as advertised) that this would be able to allow Homer to go out and maybe get some quality help on the blue line (depending on how the young guys develop). Training camp shall be interesting this year I hope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 @pilldoc Homer might have an easier time signing a quality defenceman if he didn't always have 2 or 3 stupid contracts to players that were entirely useless that he signed them to as they were entering their entirely useless stage of their career....with NTCs!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted September 10, 2013 Author Share Posted September 10, 2013 @flyercanuck We might as well make a list of players without the dreaded NTC/NMC and sticky it, save a bunch of useless threads...lol. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Without? Here is the list... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 @pilldoc Homer might have an easier time signing a quality defenceman if he didn't always have 2 or 3 stupid contracts to players that were entirely useless that he signed them to as they were entering their entirely useless stage of their career....with NTCs!!!NTC!! .... 3 letters that I have learned to dread with this organization. What is it with Homer and NTC? Is he deathly afraid that players will not come here unless offered one? I swear NTC is one of the primary reason this club has struggled recently! NTC just limit to what you can do to build a roster. Totally agree with ya FC! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 @flyercanuck We might as well make a list of players without the dreaded NTC/NMC and sticky it, save a bunch of useless threads...lol. Without? Here is the list...LOL.....so true so true! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jam1986 Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 This sucks should of stay with kids up front and back. Just a fan but what is Homer drinking?I know look at Oilers all kinds of talent still can't win. Homer plans maybe have more vets to help G and others.I would of stay with kids. So who goes now Talbot or Hartnell? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leach27 Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 This sucks should of stay with kids up front and back. Just a fan but what is Homer drinking?I know look at Oilers all kinds of talent still can't win. Homer plans maybe have more vets to help G and others.I would of stay with kids. So who goes now Talbot or Hartnell? pretty sure meltzer has suggested Talbot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted September 11, 2013 Author Share Posted September 11, 2013 A Helen St.James article from the Detroit Free Press (great hockey writer btw) giving a Ken Holland perspective on why Clearly left. http://www.freep.com/article/20130910/SPORTS05/309100121/detroit-red-wings-daniel-cleary-philadelphia-flyers Of note, these few sentences, giving insight into Hollands offers that were rejected. "The Wings offered Cleary deals in July for two years in the low $2-million range, and three years just below $2 million. Cleary said Monday he didn't regret not taking those offers." So, Homer did not overpay by to much based on those offers (basically a quarter mill or so per year over the 3 years). Another thing I like is that even though the money was for less, the Wings indeed offered Cleary a 3 year deal, so they obviously did not think he was damaged goods, as some Flyer fans (from other sites) were implying. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 (edited) @jammer2 - I think he's damaged goods regardless. This is from an article in the Sporting News: [Here's what he said before surgery in April 2012. Read this and ask yourself if you'd lock yourself into paying him $2.6 million for the next three seasons:“There are some tears in there, loose cartilage, some bone on bone, a lot of fluid— the build-up of fluid was a major issue, so hoping that we can get it resolved.] http://www.sportingnews.com/nhl/story/2013-07-06/dan-cleary-knees-red-wings-roster-nhl-free-agency-stephen-weiss Bone on bone? Yeah, that's always good. Edited September 11, 2013 by JackStraw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted September 11, 2013 Author Share Posted September 11, 2013 @JackStraw Yikes, that does sound good at all! I just really respect Holland and I find it really hard to believe he would offer a 3 year deal to a guy who is a health risk. Hard to deny though, bone on bone is never a great thing. This whole scenario now has me puzzled. Perhaps the Flyers doctors have not got involved yet, because no actual deal has been signed? Maybe they back out if they don't like what they hear from the docs? It's not like a handshake from Homer means anything, just ask Gagne. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted September 11, 2013 Author Share Posted September 11, 2013 @pilldoc "Once again you make some excellent points. I believe you hit the nail on the head." I can't really take credit for the line of thinking in that post. I was just going off a comment that aziz made a few months back. I liked the idea (re Homer not being here to clean up this mess) and thought it had some relevance in this discussion, so I tossed it out there, but aziz came up with it first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegionOfDoom Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 Gagne would of been better. I like Mike Richards, but Mike Richards at 36 and you have to consider his health and durability.Setting the tone on the ice is nice, but if after a few months you end up setting the bone that got dislocated, or a torn knee, then all you'll be setting is the remote control to DVR the game. Gagne was for one more year or two, then he would of probabely retired.Cleary is for THREE YEARS NTC.I will have to wait and see before I comment on Cleary being the better of the two, but I know Gags was playoff proven.The only upside I can see right now is that Cleary will seem to teach the younger guys a little more to improve their game and show them what it is to have a winning attitude. ..........to be continued............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dilbert719 Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 Cleary's now apparently an undone deal. Elliotte Friedman @FriedgeHNIC 6m Not exactly sure why, but it appears as if there is some complication between Daniel Cleary and PHI. Told he will not be joining Flyers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted September 11, 2013 Author Share Posted September 11, 2013 @JackStraw Here is another question...is Cleary providing the same role as a Harry.Z would have provided, except Harry was younger, faster, less injury prone....and yeah, he scored less, but we never really gave him enough ice time to see if the pts would come, did we? Harry hits harder, that's for sure. Anyways, he would have done the same basic job for vet minimum with some growing pains involved. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hf101 Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 Apparently contract talks with Cleary have hit a snag and he won't be reporting to the Flyers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmdodgesrt4 Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 Reportedly he got a better offer from another team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted September 11, 2013 Author Share Posted September 11, 2013 Really? Perhaps some of the public backlash/medical stuff put some heat on Homer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 @flyercanuck Picture our new GM having the built in excuse that Homer put him in a position where he cannot possibly compete. I can see that coming. They're hiring Obama as the next GM? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaGreatGazoo Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 Just thought of a positive....he's not 35, so if he retires, they are off the hook. :unsure: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 Perhaps the Flyers doctors have not got involved yet How much do we hate Cleary that we would want FLYERS doctors involved? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanaticV3.0 Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 No, but he almost certainly would have been cheaper. As would have a younger guy like Laughton or McGinn. Thus my "what's the point" comment to rux. Cleary doesn't put them over the top of anything, so why blow your cap space on him? If you don't think the young guys are ready, stick with Gags at a bargain price rather than overpay for Cleary. So what? Every decision can't be about money. Yeah he got too much money and there are no words to describe another NTC on this roster, but he's simply a better player than Gagne at this point. Gagne is shot and what this team needs is veterans who can help guide the youth along. It's no secret that handing over the team to the youth didn't exactly pan out last year. They needed veterans. Gagne was already here last year and did nothing to help that issue. Clearly is a hard worker, good leader, and simply more durable than Gagne. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.