FLYERS AND GIROUX CLOSE TO EIGHT-YEAR CONTRACT EXTENSION

[CoachX]

@flyercanuck

Hey FC, how are you?

Listen, I agree with everything you say. And for those who are think like you, they too have a valid point. And I have felt the frustration. I just get tired hearing people overly critical of the business side( like they know better or could do better) of the decisions the Flyers make. Saying you would be happy with Lecavalier 3 years ago, for a million dollars less is kind of obvious, ya know?

I guess my point in all this is just to say "don't panic". It seems to me that when the Flyers give one of these albatross contracts, they manage ways to to avoid being the Atlanta Thrashers. Will Vinny be worth the contract? I don't know. But I am glad he is in Philly. After seeing what Jagr could do for a year on Philly, I am hopeful Vinny has an all-star season and gets teh Flyers back in the mix

[Phillygrump]

Ultimately if you look at this offseason we got rid of Bryzgalov. We locked up our best player long term. We drafted 2 very promising D prospects. We improved our forwards and (even though I hate the contract) or D as well. We did NOT give up on Couturier and Schenn.

That's a lot better than a lot of us feared coming into the offseason. I understand frustration at some of the moves but overall it's not as bad as all that.

[CoachX]

Funny. I don't recall the board going nuts over the 4 year deal they gave Voracek or the 6 year deal that they gave to Simmonds. Maybe it's because these were players who were just reaching their prime or maybe it was because the team did not overpay.

Were it not for the good fortune of the new CBA and the lockout we'd still be saddled with Briere and Bryzgalov. That's some real good "management" right there. So given two "get out of jail free" cards our GM goes out and does the same thing with Streit and Lecavalier. At least Streit addressed a need.

You call it trying to get there. I call it stupid.

Read up and you'll see that the moves that were criticized the most due to all that "emotional panic" turned out to be worthy of the criticism. Hartnell. Bryzgalov. Briere. Carter. Pronger.

So when the same thing happens again and again and again, the criticism is more than warranted.

So go back and read the thread when Voracek was signed. It wasn't nearly as bad as this but you will see more people saying it is a good value contract, then it being a great deal for the franchise. You will also read people who think it was too much for a guy who never scored twenty goals in a season, and some who wanted a shorter term with RFA on the end of it.

For those who were negative about it I ask, how do you feel now?

again the point is not about having an opinion, but about having an arrogant, "I am smarter than the GM" opinion.

I would stick my neck out and say Homer knew what he was doing when he traded for jake, and then signed him for four years.Ifhe had given him a NTC/NMC, the ensuing riots would have been devastating

[pensuck]

@flyercanuck

So now you care what the "NHL fan base" thinks of our f/a signings? Who cares what they think. What do they think of the contract and years Clarkson/Close and Horton just received? I really don't care.

Go Flyers!!!

[flyercanuck]

@CoachX

I'm good, hope you're the same.

Like I said, when Homer does something I think is good (drafting those defencemen and his first round picks in general, signing Emery to a 1 year cheap contract, his deals with Simmonds, Voracek, Claudes last contract, trading Zhitnik for Coburn, trading Forsberg for some youth etc) I come on here and say it. And when I think he does something idiotic (i won't repeat what you already know) I'll speak out about that too.

I'm not panicking. I've been watching this same thing roll out for over 2 decades going back to his mentor. I just get sick of buying this guy who's best days are behind him, nope that didn't work so buy this guy whose best days are behind him, nope, that doesn't work mindset that....doesn't work, and thinking THIS time it will. How about a different blueprint? Will Philly be better with LeCavalier and Streit short term? Sure. Will they win the cup? I'd bet against it. And that is my beef. This ISN'T how you build a champion. WE know that, cause we've seen it tried, over, and over, and over, and over...,

[flyercanuck]

@flyercanuck

So now you care what the "NHL fan base" thinks of our f/a signings? Who cares what they think. What do they think of the contract and years Clarkson/Close and Horton just received? I really don't care.

Go Flyers!!!

Well I care what they think when I agree with them.

We just got rid of two stupid contracts. Why were they stupid? Cause he signed guys that were entering the twilight years of their careers for a lot longer than most players play. So what's he do with the money he gained? He signs two players entering the twilight years of their careers for longer than most players play. You don't see this as being...stupid? I don't call everything Homer does stupid. I LOVE the Emery signing. He has to EARN his payday. I do call a spade a spade though.

[pensuck]

When Vinny & Streit score on the pp this year you are to remain seated and not happy...

[pensuck]

@flyers canuck

Also, if they happen to win the cup this year will you bitch about the signings? I doubt it...

[jammer2]

Kjell made a great point, nobody on here was bitching about the Simmonds or Voracek signings....why, cause they made sense....they are just entering their primes. If people wanna throw a street party and praise all the moves Flyer management makes, expect to get called out in here, cause this is not the Stepford board, we are critical of signing guys who are already out of their primes and on the downward slope. Striet is a 35+ contract for God's sake....we are married to his even if he gets hit by a transport truck tomorrow morning....yeah, GREAT move there.....NOOOOOOOTTTTTTTT!!!!

Funny didn't see anyone berating the Emery deal....why, cause again, it made sense from our perspective.

[jammer2]

When Vinny & Streit score on the pp this year you are to remain seated and not happy...

Deal...just like when they become old, useless, lazy, counter productive players....just get ready to take the heat for "your boys"...mmmmmmK!!

[KjellShocked]

@CoachX

"So go back and read the thread when Voracek was signed. It wasn't nearly as bad as this but you will see more people saying it is a good value contract, then it being a great deal for the franchise. You will also read people who think it was too much for a guy who never scored twenty goals in a season, and some who wanted a shorter term with RFA on the end of it."

What little "negativity" there was about the Voracek signing was dwarfed to what's out there regarding Streit, Lecavalier, et al. - as it should be. That's my point. Feel free to check out the threads when Simmons signed, too. Talk about a love fest - as it should be. It was a great signing. Ditto Emery and the other deals that jammer mentioned.

"again the point is not about having an opinion, but about having an arrogant, "I am smarter than the GM" opinion."

Sounds like you have an issue with another poster and the way they state their case. FC said almost the exact same thing as radoran...yet you didn't seem to have nearly as big an issue with him. At the end of the day, they are both right. You even said so yourself. Your first line to FC was "I agree with everything you said". Well, he said the same thing radoran did. Your problem seems less about what was said than who and how they said it.

"I would stick my neck out and say Homer knew what he was doing when he traded for jake, and then signed him for four years.Ifhe had given him a NTC/NMC, the ensuing riots would have been devastating"

Except that he didn't give him a NTC or NMS so there weren't riots. If he had, he would have been rightfully criticized for it. Those who would have been critical would not have been smug and arrogant. They would have been right.

Edited July 7, 2013 by KjellShocked

[KjellShocked]

When Vinny & Streit score on the pp this year you are to remain seated and not happy...

Four years from now when Vinny and Streit are on IR, on pace for career lows, both - 20 and both counting against the cap because there are noooooooooooooooooooooo more buyouts, you must come back and remind us all how smart these deals were.

You can do so when we celebrate the 43rd anniversary of our last Cup.

[flyercanuck]

When Vinny & Streit score on the pp this year you are to remain seated and not happy...

@flyers canuck

Also, if they happen to win the cup this year will you bitch about the signings? I doubt it...

Funny, I heard the same thing over the last few years. Pronger says "Hello". Briere says "Bonjour" Bryzgalov says " привет" Where's our cups from those brilliant signings?

If anything brought a cup to Philly its worth it. Trading our best young players, our first round picks, signing old guys to longterm contracts.If ONE of those things brought us a cup, it's worth it. They've been using this exact blueprint for 25 years now, and it doesn't work, does it? Or did I miss a cup since 75?

How about trying a different method? How about coming up with a plan instead of Holmgren seeing LeCavalier is bought out and it's the shiny toy he doesn't have (even though center is the LAST thing we need) so he throws whatever it takes at it to bring it to Philly. It makes the homer fans who STILL don't get it happy, until the wheels fall off and they jump on with the fans who've finally had it with this non-gameplan, just like with Briere, and Pronger, and Bryzgalov.

Yes LeCavalier and Streit will help, short term. And guys like you will be all happy. Will it win us a cup? I doubt it. Then 3 and 4 years from now, when the Schenns, Voracek, Couturier, Giroux, Simmonds, Laughton, Maybe Hagg or Morin are nearing or at the top of their game, we'll have 2 new shiny boat anchors holding us down, just like the 3 I mentioned.

As for this : @ jammer

Maybe you should find a new team to hate I mean root for. There's a difference of being an objective fanand just plain negative

There's also a difference between being an objective fan and a blind homer. And jammer is as objective as they come.

Edited July 7, 2013 by flyercanuck

[doom88]

But how does jammer feel about NCAA hockey?

[flyercanuck]

@doom88

The same as rad...only different.

[CoachX]

@flyercanuck

I know what you mean, and for the sake of argument, I look at it another way. Bryzgalov was a horrible move. In the beginning though I was all for i.t Who knew the guy would be the f-ktard he was? total egg on thier face and they admitted as much.

I think Briere was a great signing. Look what the guy did while he was here. I don't know how any Flyer fan can be idsappointed with the way he perfromed in the playoffs for us. And here is the thing, was he worth the contract they gave him? I guess its up to each fan to decide on his own. But from the franchise POV he was the best signing at the time and he held up his end. And good management or not, they found a way to get rid of his contract when his level of play declined. And that is really my point.... they seem to always work it out as far as that goes.

But back to your point, and I agree, the tactic of bringing in a player past his prime, has not paid off. Perhaps it is time to change their paradigm. In typical fashion, I am excited about the Vinny signing. I don't think it will ruin the franchise or set them back for years to come. I think he will be a really good second line center for a few more years. I just hope he can avod the same fate (injuries) that have plagued other big names who came here late

[CoachX]

@KjellShocked

It may appear that way, but it is not the case. I don't have individual problems with people on here unless they are Pissburg fans. Since I have been tattled on and had my pee-pee smacked, I can not address those individuals in a manner I feel is appropriate. With that said, let's move on.

In an attempt to clarify (yet again), my point is not that the Flyers are doing everything right, or that Rad, you or FC are wrong. What I am trying to say is it gets old that no matter what move they make it is met with a barrage of criticism tainted with self righteous indignation.

Briere is gone. Bryzgalov is gone. Did either of them cost us Giroux, Couturier, Simmonds or Schen? Was Richards or Carter lost due to these siginings? Is the team cap strapped and not able to make a move? the answer is no. My point is more about negativity being the predominant feel and emotion. Its exhausting!

[pensuck]

@CoachX

That's funny. I got reprimanded about pissburgh fans too. Lol. They try so hard to keep those 3 posters happy...

[CoachX]

I wonder if the same rules apply to Leafs fans? I loved smacking those "_______" around too

[Vincent05]

You can do so when we celebrate the 43rd anniversary of our last Cup.

Painful to read but very true!!!

[pensuck]

Negatively objective maybe???

[flyercanuck]

@flyercanuck

I know what you mean, and for the sake of argument, I look at it another way. Bryzgalov was a horrible move. In the beginning though I was all for i.t Who knew the guy would be the f-ktard he was? total egg on thier face and they admitted as much.

And they were nothing but lucky they could buy him out. Pure luck.

I think Briere was a great signing. Look what the guy did while he was here. I don't know how any Flyer fan can be idsappointed with the way he perfromed in the playoffs for us. And here is the thing, was he worth the contract they gave him? I guess its up to each fan to decide on his own. But from the franchise POV he was the best signing at the time and he held up his end. And good management or not, they found a way to get rid of his contract when his level of play declined. And that is really my point.... they seem to always work it out as far as that goes.

How did the last 3 years of Brieres contract look? I mean we got of of 2 of them (by pure luck) Was he worth a 6.5 cap hit last year? Picture him 2 years from now at that hit. And you're trying to win a cup

But back to your point, and I agree, the tactic of bringing in a player past his prime, has not paid off. Perhaps it is time to change their paradigm. In typical fashion, I am excited about the Vinny signing. I don't think it will ruin the franchise or set them back for years to come. I think he will be a really good second line center for a few more years. I just hope he can avod the same fate (injuries) that have plagued other big names who came here late

I said I think LeCavalier makes the team better this year. I'm not arguing that. I just like to look further down the road than one year. And I'd like our gm to do the same.

[flyercanuck]

@CoachX

That's funny. I got reprimanded about pissburgh fans too. Lol. They try so hard to keep those 3 posters happy...

You get reprimanded for calling them names and making it personal. We're not 12 years old...I think. And whether you agree or not, a hockey board is better with a variety of fans. That includes you, and Pen fans.

Edited July 7, 2013 by flyercanuck

[KjellShocked]

@CoachX

"It may appear that way, but it is not the case. I don't have individual problems with people on here unless they are Pissburg fans. Since I have been tattled on and had my pee-pee smacked, I can not address those individuals in a manner I feel is appropriate. With that said, let's move on."

That's fair enough. Moving on.

"In an attempt to clarify (yet again), my point is not that the Flyers are doing everything right, or that Rad, you or FC are wrong. What I am trying to say is it gets old that no matter what move they make it is met with a barrage of criticism tainted with self righteous indignation."

I thought you moved on?

"Briere is gone. Bryzgalov is gone. Did either of them cost us Giroux, Couturier, Simmonds or Schen? Was Richards or Carter lost due to these siginings? Is the team cap strapped and not able to make a move? the answer is no. My point is more about negativity being the predominant feel and emotion. Its exhausting!"

Yes - Briere and Bryz are gone but only through the good fortune of the compliance buyouts. In short, Homer was very lucky. No buyouts and they are still here siphoning $11 million of our cap space and likely impacting extensions for Giroux, Courturier, Read, etc, down the road. You also need to ask yourself what other moves we could have made had those players not been signed. Where the negativity comes from is that once again - despite a "get outta jail free card - two actually - Homer does the same thing again with Streit and Lecavalier. Those are short term fixes with little chance of long term success. If we were ** this ** close to a Cup I'd be all for them but this team is not a serious threat as they are built right now. If you are happy with "good - not great" then I can understand your reasoning but there is nothing wrong with taking a step or 2 back now so we can take 3 or 4 steps forward in a few years. Moves like Pronger, Briere, Bryz, Streit, Lecavalier - even Hartnell - are 1 step foward now and 2 steps back in a few years and still no Cup.

The Cup should be the organization's ultimate goal. Not just contending every year. That's easy.

[pensuck]

@fc

Then we disagree. I would trade the entire phantom's team, give up all of our draft picks if it got us a SC. That IS why they play the game right? To win it all...