FLYERS AND GIROUX CLOSE TO EIGHT-YEAR CONTRACT EXTENSION

[jammer2]

Assuming the 66 mill for 8 years is accurate, my convoluted thoughts on the matter....

Either one of the two, money or length is usually cut a bit short to make the deal fair, either you take less money for a longer term or more money for a shorter term....the Flyers got breaks in none of these departments. Seems like Giroux's agent knew he had them over a barrel and took full advantage of that fact. Look, this guy is obviously our best player, fairly young and still has not shown his full potential.....I get all that. When you look around the league, and see the 6 mill for Horton and Clarkson becoming reality, you see it's in line with league vaules. Not the values we know, the ones that become a reality tomorrow. The salary scale will be re-set...and even though G is not a UFA, he will get paid like one due to the awkward positon he had the Flyers management in....if they low balled him, he could take it personal and walk after this year, and not even give the Flyers another shot at it....you have to tread lightly when you are talking about your team leader and most skilled player.

Here is what knaws at me. As much as I hate to say this, there were games where G seemed disinterested last year....and I would have never dreamed of typing that after his big break out 90+ pt year. He was balls to the wall that year, a true warrior in every sense of the word. That was not the case all the time last year, he took shifts and games off, not very often, but enough for me and others to notice. I was looking forward to more than a few repeats of "the shift" from a few playoffs ago, but didn't get a sniff of that intensity last year. On some nights, there was that sense of desperation missing. That concerns me when paying a guy 8.25 mill for the next 8 years. Cap wise, it's on par with the new standards that are about to be set, but I would rather a 2 year deal to 100% prove that he deserves it. He regressed in pts last year, maybe just the freaky short season, or maybe the 90 pts was a fluke and he never sees it again (doubt it, but ya never know). A 2 year deal would have cemented the fact he deserves it IMHO.

His resume does not have enough on it to demand 66 mill. He's talented, but has not proven consistancy like Sid and Malkin. Another thing, people say "G could use a better winger" and maybe that's true, but Sid turns Dupuis into a star, he makes players around him better....guaranteed. You can give him Knuintz and Dupuis and they will produce. Harts benefitted from the presence of G, no doubt, but G has not proven 100% that he makes players around him better, and I think that is one of the unwritten rules when recieving a package this, it means flat out you are a super star that indeed makes otherwise average players stars because they play with you.....G just has not done it long enough to know if he really does fall into that type of special catagory. I just wanted a bigger body of work to properly assess things without jumping into the fire. Homer, I'm not surprised you gave out the money based on potential....it's what you do.

Sounds a little cheap of me, but if this deal was for 7.25 instead of 8.25, I would feel a little better about the length. We got no breaks or favours, Homer got bent over a garbage can and that was that.

[Vincent05]

@jammer2

I totally agree with everything you said but unfortunately that is how it's gonna be in this new era. It will be all base on potential, either you are underpaid or overpaid. I see a bunch of overpaid hockey players in the years to come, the agents have learned how to get the most for their client and are smart in locking up these long term big money deals. Just look at the 3 other sport.

Gone are the days that players had loyalty to the team but can you fault them? Remember LeClaire was way underpaid on his contract for putting up 50+ goals a year, Snider didn't tear up his contract to make it fair. I fault the GMs more then agents on this, the GMs shouldn't be handing out long term contracts in the first place, trying to circumvent the cap. Once one does you think other agents wouldn't want the same for his clients?

The sad thing is, I see the NHL is gonna be just like the NBA in a few short years. You will have a bunch of bums sitting on the bench collecting their paycheck.

[doom88]

I was giving G a pass last "season" because he was hurt playing overseas, neck I think. However, that would also worry me in throwing that much money at a non-superstar.

[Mad Dog]

Not that I have much of a problem with this contract, but I have to wonder... does Homer actually negotiate at all? I have a distinct feeling he doesn't even understand the meaning of this word. Just about every player who faces a contract extension seems to be getting whatever they want: Carter, Richards, Timonen, and the list goes on and on. It really seems to me like Homer just rolls over and caters to whatever an agent of a given player demands.

No wonder we inherently have a problem with staying under the cap.

Edited July 5, 2013 by Mad Dog

[jammer2]

@Mad Dog I know the whole league pays out according to potential....but not on 8 year deals with 66 mill at risk. Homer takes this paying for potential to the extreme. He *thinks* he's the master at projecting value, but has been proven wrong many, many times. Good Lord, we need a new GM. Homer is outright stupid.

Edit, I would have been ok kickeing in and extra half mill or so in a 2 year deal, takes out the long term risk and we get to see if G is really a superstar, or just an above average kinda player. It would have been worth paying a bit more to make sure it was the right move.

Edited July 5, 2013 by jammer2

[FlyersFan4Life]

It's a lot of money and years It's a chance the flyers have to take. I look at this way homer and snider piss off every other gm in the league, example parise,sutter,pronger,weber, flyers go out try to out pay everyone, if they did not lock up G right away you know dang right well another team would lick their chops at a chance of offering a huge payday for G just piss off the Homer and sinder

[FlyersFan4Life]

It's a lot of money and years It's a chance the flyers have to take. I look at this way homer and snider piss off every other gm in the league, example parise,sutter,pronger,weber, flyers go out try to out pay everyone, if they did not lock up G right away you know dang right well another team would lick their chops at a chance of offering a huge payday for G just piss off the Homer and sinder

[AJgoal]

Full NMC.

I definitely would have tried for a shorter term / lower salary deal. Love giroux, but I'm with the camp that feels he hasn't quite proven to be that elite player. That said, I'm not sure you could get that deal done with him. You could play out this year, tender him, and, if necessary, take him to arbitration, but that's a very dangerous road.

[Phillygrump]

I really think he bottom line is if we didn't give him this deal someone else would have. If you're going to spend money on someone why not your best player?

[doom88]

I really think he bottom line is if we didn't give him this deal someone else would have. If you're going to spend money on someone why not your best player?

Because some aren't worth that enormous sum of money. See EDM, FLA, NYI, CBJ, COL, CGY, PHX, etc etc.

[toughfighter83]

Because some aren't worth that enormous sum of money. See EDM, FLA, NYI, CBJ, COL, CGY, PHX, etc etc.

and you wonder why those teams are so bad because they dont have the cap to spend the money on good role players, i cant care how great this guy or that guy is, if the player is just in it for the money and not winning the big one, then dont sign him, how to replace him, that's on the gm.

[jammer2]

@AJgoal Wouldn't you ge 4 first round picks if he is qualified at a certain number?.....Depending on the team that makes the offer, that would be nice compensation package. 8 first rounders in a 4 year span....that would take a bit of the sting out of it. Of course, water under the bridge at this point.

[AJgoal]

Yes, and you also have the right to match any offer. My worry is more from a relationship perspective between the player and FO. How do you tell a player that a year ago your coach called the best player in the world that you think he's NOT worth 8 million a year, and not cause some hard feelings? Not that I see it with Giroux, but are you willing to run the risk with him that he signs just until he is able to become a UFA and then bolts for nothing? When you are talking about a player that is just below that elite level, you really are in between a rock and a hard place. Sign him long term and he never reaches that potential, and you have a tough contract. Don't sign him long term, and he may feel slighted and go elsewhere when he does reach that potential.

The good thing, to me, is that Giroux did pick it up after a rough start last season - He did put up a point per game. I don't think the Flyers are taking too much of a risk here, but I would have liked to see one more full season producing at that level before giving him this contract.

In the end, the real question is, do you think he will be as good as Getzlaf? They are now making the same amount. If you do, then it's a good deal, because that's the market.

[jammer2]

@AJgoal It's tough to compare Getzlaf to G. One is a power forward and proven leader with a ring, where G is more unproven...although every indication is he will score more than Ryan. G just does not have the sheer power that Getz does. I think Getz does a lot of things you don't see on the scoresheet, Claude is learning those things, how to be a leader etc.

[jammer2]

Here is a very positive reason why Claude was handed such a large sum of money....the point per game leaders in the playoffs among active players....guess who turn up 3rd on this impressive list? Interesting to note, as we all knew, Danny boy is among the top ten in this catagory, coming in at a solid 5th.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/leaders/points_per_game_active_p.html

[fan4ever]

I wonder how much "G"'s lack of production last "season" had to do with the shortened season and all the drama that was Bryz. Quite frankly, I think the entire team played some uninspired hockey last season for large stretches. I'm happy for him and think that he'll turn out to be the player we hope he'll be!!

[Dynamo 47]

He is the heart and soul of the team and I think one of the top 5 or 6 players in the game. I am glad we locked him up but would have hoped for a slightly lower cap hit. I would have sold the long term security for a slightly lower, more cap friendly hit.

[ZeZel25]

Love G but hate this contract. DESPISE 8 year contracts for ANYONE. I was hoping for around 7 per, NOT 8.25 . I wont even get into this stupidity of these FULL NMC, NTC.... if a player gets a FULL NTC the money should be alot less IMO. B.Schenn AND Couter have to be re-done, I just can't wait to see the stupidity coming out of those deals

[mojo1917]

I just hope he earns that contract every shift without pressing.

He's got mad skills, but he needs players who can keep up with his jazz, he's not a guy that can take a plumber and turn him into a 25 goal scorer. And for 8 + x 8 that ability should be in the arsenal.

I hope he stays healthy and leads the team to some meaningful payoff wins, all he has to do is have a year where he wins the last game of the season and no one will give a uck about 8+ x 8.

[flyercanuck]

I know one thing...it's a lot easier coming up with big money longterm contracts that didn't work out than ones that did. Yashin, DiPietro, Holik, Redden, Gomez, Drury, Campbell, Komisarek, Leino, Kovalchuk (just wait and see) Luongo, LeCavalier off the top of my head.

Remember when the Leafs and Rangers were always the teams that threw stupid money after stupid money and it never got them anywhere? Well, there's a new sherriff in town when it comes to squandering huge amounts of other peoples money, and his name is Holmgren. Briere (bought out) Richards and Carter (traded) Pronger (that lasted a whole year and a bit) Bryzgalov (one of THE worst ever) Hartnell LeCavalier (part deux) and Streit (now batting) and now Giroux. And I like Giroux.

[ruxpin]

I hear all of the concerns, and they are warranted. But, eh, I'm okay with this.

When he's winning a Cup with LA in a couple years, they'll think he's paid exactly what he's worth.

[Cheesesteak]

Now I feel it is critical to find a top-line LW to compliment G and Voracek in order to make this signing a slam-dunk for the Flyers. Great to have your best player locked up long term but he can't do it by himself no matter how good he is.

[radoran]

Now I feel it is critical to find a top-line LW to compliment G and Voracek in order to make this signing a slam-dunk for the Flyers. Great to have your best player locked up long term but he can't do it by himself no matter how good he is.

You mean the guy that they signed for six years at $4.75M per to be Giroux's LW isn't going to be Giroux's LW?

lather. rinse. repeat.

this is my shocked face:

[CoachX]

I feel like Flyers fans are going to scream on every single contract that comes out now.

I agree. Its getting almost unbearable. No matter what the Flyers do it is too much for too long and will deimate the franchise. I read a Ruxpin post recently that I agree with regarding the teams direction, but other than that, these forum GM's are over the top.

I kind of find it amusing that the Flyers are always doomed by the moves they make, but then they find a way. I remeber the same type of reaction when Briere was signed. He's gone and the Flyers aren't bankrupt

[radoran]

I kind of find it amusing that the Flyers are always doomed by the moves they make, but then they find a way. I remeber the same type of reaction when Briere was signed. He's gone and the Flyers aren't bankrupt

No, they're not bankrupt.

They just have the same number of Cups that they had before they signed Briere. So if they "found a way" what exactly was "the way" to?

No one believes that the Flyers are going to run out of money.

Lots of people don't believe they spend their money well.

Because they have shown time and again that they simply don't.