Halak to flyers?

[pilldoc]

Last I heard on twitter Emery might be lookin to compete and Philly was said to be the front runner. Just a rumor though.

as I have made mention several times...I would open Emery back with open arms. Heck...I would even drive to Chicago an pick him up myself. Do you think a 2 yr deal say for 1.5 mill / yr sound ok. Or do you think he is looking for more? I don't know what he is asking in Chi-town.

[Phillygrump]

No idea on the length or cost just saw that Philly was apparently the front runner.

[xganarchy]

I liked emery while he was here, BUT I think Mason should be handed the number one and allowed to have peace of mind. He's young and has a lot of talent and that should be properly groomed.

[doom88]

I liked emery while he was here, BUT I think Mason should be handed the number one and allowed to have peace of mind. He's young and has a lot of talent and that should be properly groomed.

I think he should have a fair competition and earn the starting spot.

Unlike that Bryz and Bob competition...barf

[aziz]

<br />I think he should have a fair competition and earn the starting spot.<br />

I can't decide on that. how do you do it? I mean, think back to the niitty/biron thing. niitty would get a couple of starts, but the first bad game he'd be on the bench for the next one. how do you manage a goalie competition, understanding that bad outings are part of the game, and recovering from those is as valuable an ability as any other? do you block off "you will get these 8 starts, then you get these 8," or straight up rotate or go with the hot hand? if the hot hand, is there any allowance for a stumble? if some kind of planned rotation, do you bend the rotation for a goalie playing particularly well? "4 great games in a row but we're at the end of the 8 game set, so you sit for the next two weeks"? "40 save shutout, but we're rotating game on/game off, so the other guy goes for the next game"? if not, then again, does the first bad game end the run? what happens come playoff time when your starter hasn't had to get back in the crease the night after a shelling all season?

I like the idea, but I can't figure out the logistics of it.

Edited July 5, 2013 by aziz

[jammer2]

@aziz The way I see it, there should be a fair compitition for starter, that guy can take the reigns playing 3/4 games (basically the other guy plays back to back). Contradicts my 50/50 post, but the more I think about it, the more I think it's fair to put all that pressure hanging over a goalie head. The wins an losses should not matter, but when one of the two let in stinky, soft goals....then you make the switch. Basically, a Flyer goalie should keep them in the game and give them a chance to win....if they do this they are doing their job, and should not be benched for it. This very problem is what made Elliott and Halak combo less effective than what they could have been. Always looking over your shoulder is no way to go through a season. I realize it's important to push the other guy, but to much back and forth is detrimental to both guys....and I think they both understand this.

Edited July 5, 2013 by jammer2

[doom88]

Either have them tryout until game 1, or go 50/50 during the season until a clear starter emerges. Fernandez and Roloson did well in that system a few years back with the Wild.

The wrench I'd throw in is to have no goalie play more than 3 in a row. If that is clear up front, hopefully it won't screw with their heads, as they would expect it and understand.

[canoli]

well it is a tough call but that's why you have a coaching staff and why you have a goalie coach. It's their job to evaluate and know who needs what - and when. Hard job? Yes it is. But that's what they're paid to do, know when to push, know when to pat on the back.

I'm just guessing but I bet Mason *needs* to know it's his job to lose, he's the Flyers #1 goalie and that when he fails he'll be given every opportunity to come back stronger. Think about it. He's just been through the most humiliating 3 years of his professional life, the LAST thing he needs is "competition," feeling he's on a tight leash.

Confidence - it just can't be understated [edit: I mean "overstated" duh] - is everything (for guys with the skills I mean). Mason is big, he's quick, he's smart and he's developed those natural advantages into the reflexes, skating and puck-handling skills a great goalie needs. All that's left is the confidence, the attitude, the FU-just-TRY-to-get-one-by-me.

I may be dead wrong but I doubt any goalie finds that confidence with a competitor breathing over his shoulder...hoping he falls flat on his face. Cuz let's face it that's what Emery would be doing, even if he's the greatest, most unselfish guy in the world. He wants to play. If they're both competing for the job how's he get in unless Mason fails?

If we pick a guy who still thinks he's a starter the Flyers better make it clear from Day One his job will be backing up our #1 guy, Steve Mason. If the guy accepts that role...okay. If not go get Theodore.

Edited July 5, 2013 by canoli

[radoran]

well it is a tough call but that's why you have a coaching staff and why you have a goalie coach. It's their job to evaluate and know who needs what - and when. Hard job? Yes it is. But that's what they're paid to do, know when to push, know when to pat on the back.

I'm just guessing but I bet Mason *needs* to know it's his job to lose, he's the Flyers #1 goalie and that when he fails he'll be given every opportunity to come back stronger. Think about it. He's just been through the most humiliating 3 years of his professional life, the LAST thing he needs is "competition," feeling he's on a tight leash.

Confidence - it just can't be understated [edit: I mean "overstated" duh] - is everything (for guys with the skills I mean). Mason is big, he's quick, he's smart and he's put that together to develop the skating and puck-handling skills a great goalie needs. Now all that's left is the confidence, the attitude, the FU-just-TRY-to-get-one-by-me.

I may be dead wrong but I doubt any goalie finds that confidence with a competitor breathing over his shoulder...hoping he falls flat on his face. Cuz let's face it that's what Emery would be doing, even if he's the greatest, most unselfish guy in the world. He wants to play. If they're both competing for the job how's he get in unless Mason fails?

If we pick a guy who still thinks he's a starter the Flyers better make it clear from Day One his job will be backing up our #1 guy, Steve Mason. If the guy accepts that role...okay. If not go get Theodore.

Steve Mason has done virtually nothing to warrant being handed the #1 job in Philadelphia.

Being the guy who happened to be standing here when they removed the biggest mistake in organizational history isn't a solid recommendation.

This guy couldn't handle the pressure in Columbus.

I'm willing to give him a shot and think he could take good advantage of it.

But there's no way that I'm counting on Steve Mason until there is more than seven garbage games of reason to do so.

[mojo1917]

This guy couldn't handle the pressure in Columbus.

let's be fair, those were some god-awful columbus teams he was playing on.

this last season after the Nash trade was the best team they've iced in a long time.

[radoran]

let's be fair, those were some god-awful columbus teams he was playing on.

this last season after the Nash trade was the best team they've iced in a long time.

He won the Calder with a godawful Columbus team.

And then had three awful seasons with a godawful Columbus team.

Again, could make something of this opportunity.

You bettin' the house on that?

[canoli]

Yes Rad, all very true. But my point is - this is who we have. Now we have to handle him properly. I'm saying forget Colombus, forget the failures and reset.

Of course you don't really forget the failures and that's why I say it's even more important to, in effect pretend they never happened. I'm trying to figure out how to get Mason back to his rookie-year game. [edit: I'm sure] You are too.

Competing and all it entails ... I don't think it's the right way to go with Mason. Yes it will appear to some he's been "rewarded" for failure. But that's the wrong way to approach it imo. RESET. That's what this season should be about for Steve Mason. And what's the best way to do that? Give him the reigns and let him go for it.

Edited July 5, 2013 by canoli

[peter puck]

let's be fair, those were some god-awful columbus teams he was playing on.

this last season after the Nash trade was the best team they've iced in a long time.

They were lead by their goalie and that goalie was ....not Mason.

[mojo1917]

@radoran

hell no,

i just think knowing you need to put up .960 /1.9 every night to have a shot might weigh on a fella.

i'm hoping he stops the ones he should and gets a couple he shouldn't.

and that is all.

[mojo1917]

They were lead by their goalie and that goalie was ....not Mason.

i think the guys that came in the nash trade gave that team some character and made them harder to play against, they dumped carter and got a JJ...

Plus i'm not trying to discount Bob's contribution at all, he was stellar.

last years CBJ could sustain a forecheck and had moments of offense that didn't come off the rush they way it seemed every opportunity i saw in the Nash years... granted i wasn't glued to the tv when they were on but the team's style changed last year and that would have helped Mason too.

[AndyS]

well it is a tough call but that's why you have a coaching staff and why you have a goalie coach. It's their job to evaluate and know who needs what - and when. Hard job? Yes it is. But that's what they're paid to do, know when to push, know when to pat on the back.

I'm just guessing but I bet Mason *needs* to know it's his job to lose, he's the Flyers #1 goalie and that when he fails he'll be given every opportunity to come back stronger. Think about it. He's just been through the most humiliating 3 years of his professional life, the LAST thing he needs is "competition," feeling he's on a tight leash.

Confidence - it just can't be understated [edit: I mean "overstated" duh] - is everything (for guys with the skills I mean). Mason is big, he's quick, he's smart and he's developed those natural advantages into the reflexes, skating and puck-handling skills a great goalie needs. All that's left is the confidence, the attitude, the FU-just-TRY-to-get-one-by-me.

I may be dead wrong but I doubt any goalie finds that confidence with a competitor breathing over his shoulder...hoping he falls flat on his face. Cuz let's face it that's what Emery would be doing, even if he's the greatest, most unselfish guy in the world. He wants to play. If they're both competing for the job how's he get in unless Mason fails?

If we pick a guy who still thinks he's a starter the Flyers better make it clear from Day One his job will be backing up our #1 guy, Steve Mason. If the guy accepts that role...okay. If not go get Theodore.

The last time the Flyers were too concerned about a starting goalies "feelings," they gave away Bobrovsky for nothing.

Always a bad move, IMO.

If a goalie can't handle the pressure of earning the starting gig, there isn't much chance of him winning the Cup.

[radoran]

Yes Rad, all very true. But my point is - this is who we have. Now we have to handle him properly. I'm saying forget Colombus, forget the failures and reset.

Of course you don't really "forget" the failures and that's why I say it's even more important to in effect pretend they never happened. Don't jump on me for the wording here okay? I'm trying to figure out how to get Mason back to his rookie-year game. [edit: I'm sure] You are too.

Competing and all it entails ... I don't think it's the right way to go with Mason. Yes it will appear to some he's been "rewarded" for failure. But that's the wrong way to approach it imo. RESET. That's what this season should be about for Steve Mason. And what's the best way to do that? Give him the reigns and let him go for it.

He's on a one year deal for a reason.

I don't think that giving him anything is a good approach. I want him to take the reins.

@radoran

hell no,

i just think knowing you need to put up .960 /1.9 every night to have a shot might weigh on a fella.

i'm hoping he stops the ones he should and gets a couple he shouldn't.

and that is all.

Well, if the Flyers don't start scoring more than they did last season, they just might be needing that .960/1.9 range (again).

They scored two or less in 28 of 48 games last season.

Again, doesn't deserve to be anointed the primary starter. Deserves the chance to win the job outright.

Tragically, we're dealing with a coach who really has no talent for handling goalies.

[mojo1917]

Again, doesn't deserve to be anointed the primary starter. Deserves the chance to win the job outright.

Tragically, we're dealing with a coach who really has no talent for handling goalies.

agree 1000 x percent !

[canoli]

I don't think that giving him anything is a good approach. I want him to take the reins.

In principle I agree completely, that's how athletes progress at every level. But in practice how will it work with 2 goalies competing for starts? To me it seems a recipe for failure for both of them. I would much rather have ONE guy designated the starting goaltender.

Naturally if he goes 20 games without a win...or more realistically, if he goes night after night letting in bad goals...you make a change and your backup becomes your starter. But I think we're in delicate waters here with Mason. I'm thankful it is just a 1 year deal. But to me that alone is enough "motivation" or "competition."

Mason wants to be a starting goaltender in the NHL. Currently he's got 1 year to prove he can be that again. But you guys want to add another layer of competition on him and I think that's a bad move.

[canoli]

Tragically, we're dealing with a coach who really has no talent for handling goalies.

:sigh:

yeah we may not have much of a chance of producing a winner no matter which way we go. Lavy is almost sure to fk it up.

[radoran]

In principle I agree completely, that's how athletes progress at every level. But in practice how will it work with 2 goalies competing for starts? To me it seems a recipe for failure for both of them. I would much rather have ONE guy designated the starting goaltender.

Naturally if he goes 20 games without a win...or more realistically, if he goes night after night letting in bad goals...you make a change and your backup becomes your starter. But I think we're in delicate waters here with Mason. I'm thankful it is just a 1 year deal. But to me that alone is enough "motivation" or "competition."

Mason wants to be a starting goaltender in the NHL. Currently he's got 1 year to prove he can be that again. But you guys want to add another layer of competition on him and I think that's a bad move.

No real "tandem" has won a Cup, but many have been quite successful.

For me, the Flyers are not here "to give Mason a chance" - the Flyers are here to win hockey games. If Mason gives them the best chance to do so, he will start.

Seven garbage games simply isn't enough for me to hand the role to Mason. Bryz was 2.19/.924 in six games last January. How did that "project" for the rest of the season?

I'm firmly in the "if you can't handle the heat, get out of the crease" camp here.

[aziz]

you make a change and your backup becomes your starter.

I think this is the biggest point. mason maybe shouldn't be "given" anything, but I think you have to enter the season with a #1 and a #2. if the #1 loses the job, then fine, but you start with a hierarchy. the logistics of trying to run an ongoing competition as the season progresses...it's a good way to accomplish nothing good.

[canoli]

okay okay we get it, you want the guy to earn it. I'm asking HOW. How in practice, in actual games will this work?

say we do land Emery (which I doubt b/c he wants Chi). Or any other potential #1. Do you flat-out tell them both they're going to split duties and there will be no #1? Or do you try Mason first for 10 games, then no matter what go with X the next 10 games?

You know the history better than me but I can't think of a single instance where a tandem goalie situation produced a Cup winner. Not one. Bryzgalov / Giggy is about as close as I can recall, and Bryzgalov only played R1.

But don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to further Mason's career. I'm like you, I'm looking for the best way to produce Flyers' wins, that's all. I just don't see it happening if you're going to begin your season with a goalie controversy. Is "controversy" too strong? Maybe. But it sure will feel like one.

The only other option is to - like I'm saying - pick the guy and give him the team. You do that to provoke confidence in that guy, to assure yourself of the best chance to develop and maintain a solid #1 goaltender.

Hey if we can trade for somebody better before October I'm all for it. I don't care about Steve Mason I just wanna see the Flyers pattern themselves after winners and not keep "experimenting" with Goalie-Go-Rounds.

[Mad Dog]

I think this is the biggest point. mason maybe shouldn't be "given" anything, but I think you have to enter the season with a #1 and a #2. if the #1 loses the job, then fine, but you start with a hierarchy. the logistics of trying to run an ongoing competition as the season progresses...it's a good way to accomplish nothing good.

I am all for a healthy competition between two goalies who spilt 50/50 starts. But let's say performance-wise each goalie plays no better than his counterpart during the regular season. Who do you start in the playoffs?

And thats just one problem with that mindset. I really believe you need a proven, clear #1 to start the season and a back-up. It's just healthier and more certain this way. Somehow Chicago was the exception from the rule, but there are not too many otehr teams who were able to pull this off.

[doom88]

I think this is the biggest point. mason maybe shouldn't be "given" anything, but I think you have to enter the season with a #1 and a #2. if the #1 loses the job, then fine, but you start with a hierarchy. the logistics of trying to run an ongoing competition as the season progresses...it's a good way to accomplish nothing good.

Emery just started 19 games for Chi in a 48 game "season". They kind of did well in the playoffs.