why all the hate on the Vinny signing

[Poulin20]

No. I don't. It's going to cost us one of the kids, first of all.

Second of all, even with him we are NOT a cup contender. So we waste the one or two moderately productive years Lecavalier has PLUS the future of one of the kids we'll flush because of it only so in two years when Vinny starts truly showing his age and misses portions of seasons due to injury we'll be then flushing the kid du jour only to sign "the best available free agent on the market" to do the whole damn thing all over again.

Why do I know this? Because I have posted this exact same post (change Vinny to Nedved or Pronger or Hatcher or Forsberg or whomever) at least 5-7 times over the last 12 years I've been on philly.com and its off-shoots.

Each time, someone wants to write "you don't think this will help?" NO I DON'T. BECAUSE REPEATING THE SAME DAMN MISTAKES OVER AND OVER AGAIN GUARANTEES YET MORE MISTAKES.

We had the opportunity of a reset. A do-over. A roster full of kids and a decent draft and finally maybe some workable cap space. Simply plug holes while the kids progress in front of hopefully a competent goalie or two. But no. Even the people defending this deal are idiotically -- yes, idiotically: there is no other term for it--suggesting it is now okay to trade a 20 or 22 year old with tremendous upside because we just signed our soon-to-be 34 year old wunderkind.

It's utterly ridiculous. Is this board full of people who have followed the Flyers for less than 18 months???

I couldnt have said it much better myself Rux. What happened to youth and letting them grow together? Oh yeah thats right we havent done that since Keith Allen and the 1984-1985 team whom Clarke dismantled.

Short term I am sure this helps the team somewhat but at what long term cost? It is the same big splash move getting a name who was good in the past (and routinely killed us) that the Flyers do over and over agan. Eventually the name turns out to be not as good as they were when they killed us and we are stuck with their big contract that handcuffs us and keeps us mired in this rut of being good but not good enough. This move is for a team that is in a playoff run and is looking to add someone to put them over the top. Once again we jump the gun again to to their impatience. At this point it doesnt make tons of sense to me and stinks of past mistakes that are repeated over and over again.

[toughfighter83]

Well we have won nothing for how many years now???

I seem to recall the Blackhawks were a perennial non contender.....but hey, nothing like a young team growing together to win the Stanley Cup...... again.

so losing will make you feel better? if schenn and courturier struggle again in 2014 you are ok with that? seriously i think this fanbase is so addicted so losing, that they rather lose than win.

[Phlyer1]

I can only hope this does not turn out like Gratton. We needed a goalie then we need a goalie now but once again they get a forward. Having said all that I like Vinny and I want this to be a good deal.

[ruxpin]

so losing will make you feel better? if schenn and courturier struggle again in 2014 you are ok with that? seriously i think this fanbase is so addicted so losing, that they rather lose than win.

"Stupid" doesn't begin to cover that post. Color me shocked. So your answer is to continue doing what has won so many cups for the Flyers the last 20 years. Yeah, THAT makes sense.

I have one question for you: How hard did you hit your head and do you remember anything since?

[ruxpin]

I can only hope this does not turn out like Gratton. We needed a goalie then we need a goalie now but once again they get a forward. Having said all that I like Vinny and I want this to be a good deal.

You know what? That's reasonable. I guess all there is to do is hope for the same.

[toughfighter83]

"Stupid" doesn't begin to cover that post. Color me shocked.

lol lol lol lol

[hf101]

so losing will make you feel better? if schenn and courturier struggle again in 2014 you are ok with that? seriously i think this fanbase is so addicted so losing, that they rather lose than win.

no, no, no

but then selling lots of jerseys is good right?

[ruxpin]

lol lol lol lol

I figured you'd respond to that and not to the subject.

You really are dumber than an Amish road apple.

[xganarchy]

Ok, for those saying this will cost us one of our young guys...if holmgren trades a young guy for ANOTHER young guy, doesn't that make it a wash? I think it will come down to Couts and Mez or Coburn traded for a dman. And for the goalie side of it, it seems to me they're comfortable with Mason (who is still very young)and a get backup will be signed hopefully fairly cheap. We should let Mason run with the starters job and hopefully return to his previous form. The last time people were clamoring for a goalie we got Bryz.

[ruxpin]

Ok, for those saying this will cost us one of our young guys...if holmgren trades a young guy for ANOTHER young guy, doesn't that make it a wash? Yes. I think so. If it's a Coots for an equally projected defenseman I think I could stomach it. Between you and I (and everyone else since it's a public board) I'll believe that outcome when I see it. I think it will come down to Couts and Mez or Coburn traded for a dman. Depending upon who it is, I can be okay with this. See my previous smarm. And for the goalie side of it, it seems to me they're comfortable with Mason (who is still very young)and a get backup will be signed hopefully fairly cheap. We should let Mason run with the starters job and hopefully return to his previous form. The last time people were clamoring for a goalie we got Bryz. I suspect--this is only a suspicion--that the Flyer brass is not comfortable going into the season with Mason as the ordained starter. They end up being "stuck" with that, but I think they prefer someone "reliable." Yeah, we know where that got us last time. But theoretically, I'm on board with your approach at goal.

[Vincent05]

For those of you that are happy with this signing, look at years 4 and 5 of the deals to Vinny and Streit. It will hurt us if they do not produce at all, almost 10 mil of dead cap space. Would you be OK with them producing as much as Briere did this pass season? Also the resiging of G, B. Schenn, Coots (if neither is traded) and what if Mason turns in a great season, you think he will resign for 1.5 mil again? Plus we will still need a backup.

Sorry to ruin your high but I see these long contracts hurting us to keep our young core together to grow, fix our d and goalie issues. Once again they have no long term plan, they trick us with the draft about fixing our d prospect and homegrown players. With moves like these they will not have patience in developing the prospects and will be trading them away for quick fixes.

I know the truth hurts but it is what it is with the Flyers.

[jammer2]

@Vincent05 Center ice was a positon of strength going into the season. It was literally the last place we had to address. If they had just shown a bit of faith in Schenn, he would have naturally outscored Vinny in 2 years....hell, maybe even next year. Now he probably moves to the wing, plays out of positon to accomodate a 33 year old year who has regressed 4 years and counting. I would not be surpised to have Weiss become a Flyer on the 5th, and have Coots move to the wing also....that's how whacky the Flyers upper management is. This fixation with center ice is disgusting.

Not to mention, this puts us over the barrel to sign a goalie. Every GM in the league knows we need another one, so if Homer tries to make a deal, he will be in a positon of weakness with the other GM's knowing we have to dump money to address our real need....in the crease. Brillant I tell ya.

[caluso]

@DaGreatGazoo

@AlaskaFlyerFan

@trevluk

full disclosure...i don't "hate" the signing...I hate the contract. IMO it appears there is no direction to this team. We have a young core that needs to grow together. Coots and Laughton especially need time to grow. how does that happen with Vinny here? Surprise..we have another log jam at center. Now if you are moving Coots or Laughton for a bona-fide young stud d-man...you might be able to convince me. Again...not hating Vinny. If this was 3 or 4 yrs ago i would be jumping up and down and personally driving to tampa to pick him up and bring him here to philly. Fast forward to present...i guess i'm just questioning if there is a really plan........

One thing is for sure....it never stays quiet in Flyertown for very long!

i couldnt agree with you more, though i do hate the signing. we are very deep at center so why tie up 4.5 million for a 33 year old who has already played 15 seasons in the league, irrespective of how much he has left in the tank, this is a hard salary cap league - something that Gomer hasn't quite grasped yet. to tie up that much money for a guy who doesn't improve a position of weakness is INSANE.

i am sick of the way the team is run. no vision, no long-term plan.

we will never win the cup with this management.

[flyercanuck]

If someone were to ask me if I'd swap Briere and his 6.5 mil caphit for Lecavalier and a 4.5 mil one, I'd do it in a heartbeat. I'd hope Vince is inspired playing on a different team and with the likes of Claude Giroux. I'd say his size up the middle is a benefit, especially come playoffs. And the Morin/Rimouski tie might be a reach, but what the heck it can only be positive.

The reality is Briere was already gone. He proved, along with pretty well everyone else the Flyers have ever brought in at this stage of their career, that whatever the name of the rink in Philly is that week is where used to be stars come to be put out to pasture. Sure Vinny will come in and help this year. And maybe next. Are we winning the cup in those years? I doubt it. Four years from now when our young guys are coming into their own, that noise you hear is the wheels falling off the LeCavalier/Streit wagon. Just like they fall off every other past their prime "this time it's gonna work" stupid ass signing with a NTC that Holmgren/Clarke has felt was the final piece and chased on this and every other Groundhog Day.

[ruxpin]

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is the @flyercanuck we know and love.

Well said.

[Digityman]

@flyercanuck I've been reading different blogs, posts and articles about this since 5am this morning.

You summed it up nicely. The first 2 years he will be productive. He'll take some pressure off of Giroux. He'll also be helpful in the grooming off B Schenn and Cooter.

The 3rd year he'll slow down. Year 4 and 5 will hurt.

It's what Homer does. Kick the can down the road and hopes he can do something when he needs too.

Have you looked at the 2014 UFA class in the 31-33 age range?

Sedin's, Heatley, Gaborik, Thornton, Marleau.....

I think these guys will get 4-6m or more over 3-5 years.

[pilldoc]

If someone were to ask me if I'd swap Briere and his 6.5 mil caphit for Lecavalier and a 4.5 mil one, I'd do it in a heartbeat. I'd hope Vince is inspired playing on a different team and with the likes of Claude Giroux. I'd say his size up the middle is a benefit, especially come playoffs. And the Morin/Rimouski tie might be a reach, but what the heck it can only be positive.

The reality is Briere was already gone. He proved, along with pretty well everyone else the Flyers have ever brought in at this stage of their career, that whatever the name of the rink in Philly is that week is where used to be stars come to be put out to pasture. Sure Vinny will come in and help this year. And maybe next. Are we winning the cup in those years? I doubt it. Four years from now when our young guys are coming into their own, that noise you hear is the wheels falling off the LeCavalier/Streit wagon. Just like they fall off every other past their prime "this time it's gonna work" stupid ass signing with a NTC that Holmgren/Clarke has felt was the final piece and chased on this and every other Groundhog Day.

was wondering when you get to air your thoughts on the matter at hand. Agree with @ruxpin you pretty much sum up how I feel.

Look across the league. I have visited a few other team message boards and almost to a poster no one is agreeing with this deal. They all think Homer is the villiage idiot / class clown..etc Way overpaid on this contract and with a FULL NMC. Most other fans of other teams are happy because we basically screwed the pooch again by not addressing the real needs of this team. We will be in CAP hell in a few years. Can you imagine the venom whih will spew out of the fans if Vinny has a couple sub-par games or starts the season of slow. Homer will be publicly lynched. I will go into the season hoping and praying and cheering for Vinny to succeed and for this team to succeed, however, deep down I have a gut feeling this could be a train wrecjk if the blue line does not get better or we have another nutcase in net.....end of rant.....

[ZeZel25]

I really dont understand all the hatred on this signing. Vinny still has a lot in the tank in my opinion and will probably be re-vitalized on a new team, has a cup and veteran leadership to bring to the young guys, 5 years at 4.5 is not that deep, and I dont think he was going to sign ANYWHERE without a NMC to end his career. The young guys will still get plenty of ice time and they have a cup winning, veteran that proabably feels he still has something to prove and lead by example. I like this signing. I dont love it but I do like it.

For me you add ANOTHER stupid contract when you just costed yourself 12 million in bad ones. He's NOT a good defensive player and he's NOT an up tempo player. He's a declining veteran who's over hyped by lots of people. I like Vinny dont get me wrong but this contract bad. He's not even a priority on what this team needed. Now we need a defenseman and goalie, this contract affects who those players are going to be. After the Bryz and Briere buyout, Homer turns around and gives out 10 million to Streit and Vinny, REALLY? I hope i'm wrong guy's, trust me I do but unless a Hartnell, B Schenn and Mesz or Coburn are dealt, this is a complete mess. Mesz must be traded, even if for a 5th rounder or later and Gus can take that spot

[pilldoc]

@

the handwriting is on the wall...MEz is but all gone...he has to be....

[flyercanuck]

@flyercanuck I've been reading different blogs, posts and articles about this since 5am this morning.

You summed it up nicely. The first 2 years he will be productive. He'll take some pressure off of Giroux. He'll also be helpful in the grooming off B Schenn and Cooter.

The 3rd year he'll slow down. Year 4 and 5 will hurt.

It's what Homer does. Kick the can down the road and hopes he can do something when he needs too.

Have you looked at the 2014 UFA class in the 31-33 age range?

Sedin's, Heatley, Gaborik, Thornton, Marleau.....

I think these guys will get 4-6m or more over 3-5 years.

I wouldn't want ANY of those guys NOW...let alone a year from now.What do those guys all have in common?

Playoff underachievers (except maybe marleau).

[flyercanuck]

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is the @flyercanuck we know and love.

Well said.

Aw shucks....GFY!

[flyercanuck]

was wondering when you get to air your thoughts on the matter at hand. Agree with @ruxpin you pretty much sum up how I feel.

Look across the league. I have visited a few other team message boards and almost to a poster no one is agreeing with this deal. They all think Homer is the villiage idiot / class clown..etc Way overpaid on this contract and with a FULL NMC. Most other fans of other teams are happy because we basically screwed the pooch again by not addressing the real needs of this team. We will be in CAP hell in a few years. Can you imagine the venom whih will spew out of the fans if Vinny has a couple sub-par games or starts the season of slow. Homer will be publicly lynched. I will go into the season hoping and praying and cheering for Vinny to succeed and for this team to succeed, however, deep down I have a gut feeling this could be a train wrecjk if the blue line does not get better or we have another nutcase in net.....end of rant.....

Look at the bright side doc...this may be the one that finally gets Homer fired!

[pensuck]

Good signing. I can't wait to see him in o/b.

[flyercanuck]

@

the handwriting is on the wall...MEz is but all gone...he has to be....

I hope it's Mez. Homer has painted himself into yet another corner. Teams know he has to shed salary, so this won't be a sellers market. good job, yet again Homey.

[peter puck]

Since its not an over 35 contract hopefully he will retire in year four or accept a trade and retire a Bolt.