Slow Dancing on the Grave with the Murderer

[brelic]

You might be right but even so with Danny B the way the deal was structured with 3 mill and 2 mill for the last two years would mean that if he was a worthwhile asset they would still have him under contract with no need to buy him out. If it wasn't for his cap hit I would keep him on the team for the wages he would be paid.

The reality is that the overwhelming majority of players do not play past 38 years old, and those who do are usually all-star HOF type guys. Is Briere an All-Star HOF guy? Hartnell? Bryzgalov? Streit?

The only one that fits that bill is Pronger. WHat happened to him was a freak accident. But it still makes his contract a bad one for many reasons, but the primary one is that it was designed to circumvent the cap. Even Lidstrom was just getting a series of 1 and 2 year deals after 36 years old.

[brelic]

The Flyers remind of a bad car owner who sees the Check Engine light in the front panel of his car and instead of going to a mechanic to run a full diagnosis of the problem, chooses to just keep hitting the reset button so the Check Engine light disappears only to re-appear in two weeks later.

Or he just buys a new car.

[radoran]

The only one that fits that bill is Pronger. WHat happened to him was a freak accident. But it still makes his contract a bad one for many reasons, but the primary one is that it was designed to circumvent the cap. Even Lidstrom was just getting a series of 1 and 2 year deals after 36 years old.

Lidstrom

2006: two year deal, $7.6M

2008: two year deal, $7.45M

2010: one year deal: $6.2M

2011: one year deal: $6.2M

The problem for the Flyers is that they have so badly mismanaged the cap, that they had to resort to the cap shenanigans that turned the $7M years on Pronger's deal to a $4.9M number - and the only way to do that was length with the $525K years tagged onto the end.

The Red Wings - a successful organization, competently managed - didn't have that problem.

And the band plays on.

[peter puck]

People are offering up "It was Ed" as if that somehow makes things better.

It doesn't.

It makes it worse.

So, apologize up and down for Homer. Apologize for his signings, decisions, evaluations...

Apologize for everything. It's not his fault. He's only the General Manager of a National Hockey League club. Not like he has any control or influence.

It's all Ed's fault.

Feel better?

No I do not feel better.Crazy Eddie is still at the helm. Change all the GMs and coaches you want,the philosophy and direction of the

"organization"will not change until he's gone.

[murraycraven]

Great thread rad...

My opinion is that Snider was 100% responsible for the Bryz signing. After the goalie debacle in the playoffs Eddie wanted the shiniest & most expensive car on the lot. Unfortunately, they neglected to look under the hood and paid a maximum price - all while creating a singular market for Bryz's services which is asinine..

This is nothing more than the typical "win now" strategy of Flyers management. Every year is predicated on winning the next year... one more Cup before Ed Snider retires! There has to be some continuity amongst the Core players on this Team. They can ill-afford to be moving pieces if there is a belief these kids can get the job done in the future. It is nothing more than being patient and actually developing a strategy. The Flyers "shoot from the hip" mentality has proven to be defunct.

Although Carter and Richards won a cup I can guarantee that we would all of hated those contracts down the road. Richards would have been on the books until 2020 and Carter would be on the books until 2022. They were terrible contracts due to the length and instead of being locked into both players for years they moved them. The return was good but we won’t know until Schenn develops into the player he is so widely touted to become.

Until Snider learns patience (can’t teach old dogs new tricks!) we will continue to go through the offseason carnivals. It is the only "strategy" they know how to implement and execute. Every offseason is like a high-priced game of checkers when they should be focused on playing chess - strategy, patience, and risk when the opportunity arises.

Maybe they feel like idiots after the Bryz debacle but I see no change in strategy other than "shoot from the hip" and try to win now. I think it is a recipe that has proven to be unsuccessful but Ed wants a cup - whatever Mr Sinder wants he will get and it will not result in the Cup.

MC

Edited June 26, 2013 by murraycraven

[MaineFlyFan]

Yeah....if Ed Snider is going to be "allowed" to make these kind of "team impacitng" decisions then lets just name him the GM already.....let paul do his job Ed. And if he has been....then Paul needs to go FOR SURE!

[radoran]

I just don't buy the "Homer as stenographer" angle that some seem to have.

I don't believe Ed came down and said "give Richards 15 years and Carter 11" or "Hartnell for six more! Make it so!"

I don't believe he said "sign Bryz for nine years - oh, and make sure he has a no movement clause"

Snider may outline parameters for action - "get Pronger/Weber" - but Homer is the detail guy.

And the devil is certainly in these details...

[murraycraven]

I just don't buy the "Homer as stenographer" angle that some seem to have.

I don't believe Ed came down and said "give Richards 15 years and Carter 11" or "Hartnell for six more! Make it so!"

I don't believe he said "sign Bryz for nine years - oh, and make sure he has a no movement clause"

Snider may outline parameters for action - "get Pronger/Weber" - but Homer is the detail guy.

And the devil is certainly in these details...

No doubt and I am in no way implying that Homer is free of deserved criticism. Homer, as you say, is responsible for the terms and conditions of the contracts. I think in Bryz's case Ed wanted him but the stupidity of the contract, along w/ a myriad of other contracts, is on Homer.

Edited June 26, 2013 by murraycraven

[flyercanuck]

@radoran

His term, cost and NMCs are nothing short of brutal. He undervalues draft picks, yet does good work with his first rounders. It's hard to evaluate him on 2nd rounders cause he never drafts with them. His trades are basically 1/3 good, 1/3 OK and 1/3 garbage.

[Mad Dog]

I just don't buy the "Homer as stenographer" angle that some seem to have.

Well, at the very least we know Bryz was the guy Ed specifically identified himself. And even though he may not have been directly the person organizing or even directing each of these deals, the reality is he should not be telling his GM to do AT ALL. If a GM needs taht much of a handholding, then that GM is incapable and incimpetent... or fire that GM and hire the new one.

[radoran]

Well, at the very least we know Bryz was the guy Ed specifically identified himself. And even though he may not have been directly the person organizing or even directing each of these deals, the reality is he should not be telling his GM to do AT ALL. If a GM needs taht much of a handholding, then that GM is incapable and incimpetent... or fire that GM and hire the new one.

What kills me is that the "incident" that convinced Ed that he "had to" have Homer sign a goalie was getting to Game 6 of the Stanley Cup Finals.

"This is never going to work, blow it all up" isn't quite what one would be expecting in that situation. But that is exactly what they did.

And, for me, it is incumbent upon the GM to say to the owner "we've done our homework on this guy. he's a head case who can't stand pressure" instead of just "negotiating" a nine-year, $51M, NMC deal.

Chicago just won their second Cup since that Game 6. Boston's been in the Finals twice and won one.

Flyers made the second round and missed the playoffs.

[Mad Dog]

Chicago just won their second Cup since that Game 6. Boston's been in the Finals twice and won one.

Flyers made the second round and missed the playoffs.

Right. And the way each of these teams has built its success is through the draft, developing their own players, and supplementing the roster (when needed) with new pieces. This was a methodical and painstaking process, which, probably, some of their fans were growing a bit impatient of. But the management stayed true to the course they selected and didn't go for this quick-fix, all-in type of an approach.

And this is the road most of the successful teams employed: Colorado, Detroit, Tampa, Anaheim. Probably the only exception was the Devils team who had one constant (Brodeur) with multiple interchangeable other pieces over the years.

What kills me about the Flyers the most is their arrogance. Ed convinced himself that his way is the only way, which would actually be ok if his way produced the results. But after 38 years, having absolutely ZERO to show for, to still continue using the same way to get from Point A to Point B is beyond ridiculous. At what point this will start getting old?

Edited June 26, 2013 by Mad Dog

[DaGreatGazoo]

But after 38 years, having absolutely ZERO to show for, to still continue using the same way to get from Point A to Point B is beyond ridiculous. At what point this will start getting old?

Anyone got a line to Al Davis to ask him?

[AJgoal]

What kills me is that the "incident" that convinced Ed that he "had to" have Homer sign a goalie was getting to Game 6 of the Stanley Cup Finals.

"This is never going to work, blow it all up" isn't quite what one would be expecting in that situation. But that is exactly what they did.

They got to game 6 of the SCF, then barely squeaked by Buffalo as the #2 seed before getting swept out of the second round the next year by Boston, giving up 5 or more goals in 3 of the 4 games. The goalie carusel between Boucher, Bob, and Leighton that playoffs (6 of 11 games featured a goalie switch) was what made Snider say, publicly, "Never again," not the SCF the year before.

Edited June 26, 2013 by AJgoal

[radoran]

They got to game 6 of the SCF, then barely squeaked by Buffalo as the #2 seed before getting swept out of the second round the next year by Boston, giving up 5 or more goals in 3 of the 4 games. The goalie carusel between Boucher, Bob, and Leighton that playoffs (6 of 11 games featured a goalie switch) was what made Snider say, publicly, "Never again," not the SCF the year before.

Yeah, point taken. I conflated a few years

Sue me. I'm angry

[AJgoal]

Heh, no worries. My fatalism knows no bounds right now. The sad thing about it was that the goalies took a lot of the blame, but the team played like crap. And I don't think Bob got much of a chance at all. I can forgive impatience when you're close. For whatever reason, though, they weren't after that year. It was the perfect time to bring in a Vokoun or even Bryz on a 2-3 year deal to see if Bob could grow into "The Guy," but they pretty much threw him on the heap after playing like, well, a young goalie.

[radoran]

Heh, no worries. My fatalism knows no bounds right now. The sad thing about it was that the goalies took a lot of the blame, but the team played like crap. And I don't think Bob got much of a chance at all.

Bob came out and put up 1.02/.960 in his first playoff game, ever. Flyers failed to score a goal.

He then had a shaky start (gave up two power play goals to Thomas Vanek) in Game 2 and was pulled 13 minutes in (April 16). For two weeks, when they put him into a garbage time situation against Boston and he didn't start again until May 6.

Total goals scored by the Flyers in Bob's three starts? Zero game one. Two goals in 13 minutes of Game 2. One goal in his last start.

Not many goalies win behind a team putting up a 1.33 GFA.

[AJgoal]

Thanks. That's pretty much what I remembered, but I didn't have a chance to go back through the logs. Let's buy out Ed and Paul.

[jammer2]

Must be nice to have a team great enough that meh goaltending gets the job done. Although I believe Nemi has actually gotten better since his cup win...and Crawfor had nice stats this spring, but we all know there are far better technical goalies out there.....yeah, must be nice. Not even Parent in net would have helped the Flyers last year.