Mason / Bryzgalov goalie tandem for 2013-14

[King Knut]

Locker room and on ice play aside, Keeping Bryzgalov will kill our chances of icing a superior team.

Homer had better be lying to drive down the price of Bernier.

To be clear, I have no faith in either of them, nor the folks that brought them both in.

[Lindbergh31]

I think keeping Bryzgalov for another season is the best option for the Flyers going into next season. Bryz will make a better than average backup. And I really don't care about his cap hit for one more season. The total for both of them is 7.16M. The Rangers pay 8.2 M for Lundquist and Byron. The Penguins pay 7M for Fleury and Vokoun.

Buying out Bryz this summer would be a mistake considering the other options available this season. Mason will earn the starting role and Bryz can play his 20-25 games as the back-up. Buy him out next summer when there are many more options available without losing roster players, prospects or draft picks.

As others have stated, he's locker-room disaster and if you don't buy him out this summer you run the risk of him getting injured and ending up on LITR which means the Flyers couldn't buy him out. Buy him out and be done with it.

[jackhole]

@flyercanuck Right, the sleeping. Had forgot that. Agreed!

[hf101]

@Lindbergh31

Valid Point about the risk of injury. There have been other quirky, odd goaltenders in the NHL over the years, that in itself isn't a guaranteed locker room distraction to the extent that the team would not play well in front of him.

[aziz]

<br />ok, but I was allowing the options of signing a tender that could earn considerably more money than Mason, someone like Backstrom or Emery.<br />

emery as the example, though, made $1.15mil last season. he'll probably look for a raise from that, but it seems pretty understood around the league that he is a backup going forward. as such, much more than $2mil would surprise me. and that is a lot more workable than bryzgalov's cap hit.

If Mason does earn the #1 spot by mid season, sure bryz could put up a fuss, but chances are he KNOWs he would be bought out at the end of the next season. Unless he wants to spend the rest of his Goaltending days in the KHL I do think he would be a team player especially if the team were playoff bound and try to do the best he could on his starts.

i'm not entirely sure he'd care. with a buyout, he gets a $2+mil salary for the next, what is it, 14 years? the insult of a buyout aside, it isn't a bad thing to have. as for KHL/NHL, his chats with Russian media seem to make clear he isn't a fan of how things work over here. if he could take his buyout checks, and then make some more (tax free) over there, my guess is he'd be just fine with that. not a north American, didn't grow up with the NHL and the Stanley cup as the dream. plus, he already has a cup ring as a backup. don't know that will be a huge motivator for him.

I haven't read yet this summer where he "hates" to play for the Flyers.

he's spent a lot of time complaining to the philly media about the philly media. he may have orders to not talk to the press, but that won't hold forever. at some point, he will be made available, he will be asked pointed questions about his fall from grace, how he feels about it, what he's gonna do about it...and then things get interesting.

all of this is underscored by my belief that he is not an upgrade on much of anyone. he won't do a better just than half the FAs that will be available, much less bernier, should that be possible. I really don't see any upside at all to keeping him, there is no benefit that makes the risk of downside worth it.

[aziz]

<br />There have been other quirky, odd goaltenders in the NHL over the years, that in itself isn't a guaranteed locker room distraction to the extent that the team would not play well in front of him. <br />

no, the simple fact that he's an odd quirky goaltender doesn't guarantee that. the fact that he is ilya bryzgalov and has already been a locker room distraction to the extent that the team does not play well in front of him does, though.

[hf101]

@aziz

emery as the example, though, made $1.15mil last season. he'll probably look for a raise from that, but it seems pretty understood around the league that he is a backup going forward. as such, much more than $2mil would surprise me. and that is a lot more workable than bryzgalov's cap hit.

Is he?, I read where Emery wants a #1 postition. Maybe Phoenix, or Minnesota? If Holmgren were to sign Emery, Smith, or Backstrom then I'm in total agreement to buying out Bryz this year. I just don't think one of those guys will sign here. If we can only sign a Greiss, Montoya, Labarbara, Theodore --- then no thanks I'd rather have Bryz.

I could be wrong, but I thought the player received one lump payout? Bryz will receive more money if he gets his 8M to play this season then 17.6M as a buyout next year. So there is some incentive on his end to make that extra 2.6M.

Like I said initially, I think bryz can win at least half of his starts. I really don't want to dilute the forward talent by trading away a Matt Read or Couturier for Bernier or any other trade for another goaltender. Next season there are far more options.

The team better play well enough not to put Lavy's job in jeopardy.

[aziz]

<br />If we can only sign a Greiss, Montoya, Labarbara, Theodore --- then no thanks I'd rather have Bryz.<br />

that's the difference, I wouldn't.

Next season there are far more options.

are there? free agent-wise? I don't see many that are much more interesting that what's coming up this summer. I mean, lundqvist, but I assume he won't make it to FA status. miller? halak?

bernier seems to be one of the very rare prospect goalies who looks like he might live up to blue-chip billing. adding him at age 25 is a thing that is only possible once in a while. 60 point multi-tools like read or defensive forwards like couturier are great to have, but are not nearly as hard to find.

[hf101]

@aziz

Yeah, there are a few more goaltenders, Hiller, Elliot, and Crawford. All of those could be signed though. Halak will definitely be available either this year or next. I do get your point with Bernier, but if this team already traded to acquire Mason, and say he tends for us like he did last spring essentially becoming our number 1. Then why bother giving up positional players / prospects/ picks if Bernier is just going to be a backup?

Do we really need another goalie controversy then with Bernier and Mason too?

If Holmgren really thought he could make a deal favorable for the Flyers for Bernier why did he go out and get Mason?

Over the next year there will be other young goaltenders making their mark in the NHL, either becoming available for trade or pushing an existing back-up out of a job. I think a much cheaper trade option could be had.

[aziz]

@hf101

mason is a gamble. one that may pay off, but a gamble nevertheless. he has a lot to prove before people are comfortable that he isn't, well, awful. several years of being awful will do that. I like the idea of the two goalies trying to stake their claim, best man wins. second best man gets traded.

franchise goalies are exceedingly rare. that isn't revelatory, we all know that. bernier shows a strong possibility of being that. if a pair of good but not great forwards are the price, by all means spend it.

[radoran]

I haven't read anywhere where David Blane was signed in Philly...

...so why does magic have to be involved.

Why can't Mason continue where he left off at the end of this past season?

This is kinda the point. People are looking at seven games and saying "build from there" - ignoring the previous three years

Seven garbage games after the team was eliminated from the playoffs is no where near the same thing as carrying a team in a 82-game season plus playoffs.

I'll be happy as a clam if Mason pans out and the Flyers have a Calder-winning goalie who found his game again.

I'm just not betting on it.

[flyercanuck]

@Lindbergh31

Valid Point about the risk of injury. There have been other quirky, odd goaltenders in the NHL over the years, that in itself isn't a guaranteed locker room distraction to the extent that the team would not play well in front of him.

Most goalies are a little weird...but in a likeable way.Bryz is just weird. And he's not very good.

[flyercanuck]

@aziz

Yeah, there are a few more goaltenders, Hiller, Elliot, and Crawford. All of those could be signed though. Halak will definitely be available either this year or next. I do get your point with Bernier, but if this team already traded to acquire Mason, and say he tends for us like he did last spring essentially becoming our number 1. Then why bother giving up positional players / prospects/ picks if Bernier is just going to be a backup?

Do we really need another goalie controversy then with Bernier and Mason too?

If Holmgren really thought he could make a deal favorable for the Flyers for Bernier why did he go out and get Mason?

Over the next year there will be other young goaltenders making their mark in the NHL, either becoming available for trade or pushing an existing back-up out of a job. I think a much cheaper trade option could be had.

Because he was available after we gave Columbus Bob. Because Bryz had nobody to relieve him or push him.

Do I want a goalie controversy. No, I just want a goalie.

Edited June 20, 2013 by flyercanuck

[flyercanuck]

This is kinda the point. People are looking at seven games and saying "build from there" - ignoring the previous three years

Seven garbage games after the team was eliminated from the playoffs is no where near the same thing as carrying a team in a 82-game season plus playoffs.

I'll be happy as a clam if Mason pans out and the Flyers have a Calder-winning goalie who found his game again.

I'm just not betting on it.

I know you don't agree, but the team played for Mason. Whether he can play for 50 odd games in a season near that level we don't know. But the team in front of him is better when he's in net. Bryzgalov has noone to thank but himself for that.

[murraycraven]

I know you don't agree, but the team played for Mason

this is absolutely true... the Team played with a lot more enthusiasm in front of Mason. Remember? this is how we screwed up our draft positioning!

[radoran]

I know you don't agree, but the team played for Mason. Whether he can play for 50 odd games in a season near that level we don't know. But the team in front of him is better when he's in net. Bryzgalov has noone to thank but himself for that.

This is hardly a "keep Bryzgalov" argument as much as it is a reality check for people - and they are out there - that think that Mason/Heeter or Mason/Stolarz is in any way, shape or form a reasonable approach to the goalie position in 13-14.

And, again, the team "played" for a guy in garbage time after their fate was sealed.

Bully for them.

What happens to the poor little dears if Mason says he likes Dachshunds?

[flyercanuck]

This is hardly a "keep Bryzgalov" argument as much as it is a reality check for people - and they are out there - that think that Mason/Heeter or Mason/Stolarz is in any way, shape or form a reasonable approach to the goalie position in 13-14. Have zero opinion of Heeter. Stolarz would get shellacked in the NHL.

And, again, the team "played" for a guy in garbage time after their fate was sealed.

Bully for them. I'm not saying "good for the team". I'm saying if the goalie has the team behind him (which Bryz clearly doesn't anymore) he's already got a head start on his adversary. And by Bryzgalovs body language, the teams other goalie is that to him, and not a teammate.

What happens to the poor little dears if Mason says he likes Dachshunds? If Mason can make saves, catch, move laterally, handle the puck, NOT direct rebounds to the opposition in the slot all day long or act like he's insane, he can hump sheep for all I care. As long as he doesn't do it in front of the media.

[radoran]

Maybe it's just old school, but I don't accept excuses from guys that come before they even step on the ice.

"Waaah! We don't like the goalie!" isn't a professional reaction by players being compensated hundreds of thousands - and millions - of dollars to play a game at the highest level of competition.

Goalie giving up too many goals? #### you. Score more.

Then we can address the coach that overplayed the goalie that apparently everybody hates because the GM was apparently too stupid to comprehend that everybody hates the goalie and he might want to sign a better back up than Leaky or Retread.

I haven't seen any evidence whatsoever that Laviolette has the slightest clue of how to handle a goalie nor that Homer has any idea how to evaluate one.

So, I'll be pleased as punch to get rid of 1/3 of the problem that is the current goalie situation.

But that's leaving 2/3 of the problem intact and in charge.

[DaGreatGazoo]

I could be wrong, but I thought the player received one lump payout? Bryz will receive more money if he gets his 8M to play this season then 17.6M as a buyout next year

Pretty sure it's paid out at twice the original length, so he gets 2.6 million--or whatever the figure is-for the next 250 years.

[flyercanuck]

Maybe it's just old school, but I don't accept excuses from guys that come before they even step on the ice.

"Waaah! We don't like the goalie!" isn't a professional reaction by players being compensated hundreds of thousands - and millions - of dollars to play a game at the highest level of competition. I really don't think the team quit from day 1 or anything. But guys like Bryz wear on you. Lets face it, comraderie has a big part of winning teams. Jagr came in and was a positive influence to the young guys (which I never saw coming) We all saw Jagrs reaction to just eating with Bryz on 24/7.

Goalie giving up too many goals? #### you. Score more. I think they did when they could. But again, I've played in front of a goalie I didn't like and certainly wasn't giving my best effort every time.(I know I'm not a pro, but they're still human).

Then we can address the coach that overplayed the goalie that apparently everybody hates because the GM was apparently too stupid to comprehend that everybody hates the goalie and he might want to sign a better back up than Leaky or Retread. No arguement there rad.

I haven't seen any evidence whatsoever that Laviolette has the slightest clue of how to handle a goalie nor that Homer has any idea how to evaluate one. See above.

So, I'll be pleased as punch to get rid of 1/3 of the problem that is the current goalie situation.

But that's leaving 2/3 of the problem intact and in charge. Sadly. But it's better than 3/3rds.

[aziz]

"Waaah! We don't like the goalie!" isn't a professional reaction by players being compensated hundreds of thousands - and millions - of dollars to play a game at the highest level of competition.

Goalie giving up too many goals? #### you. Score more.

I don't think it's a pouty thing. I think it is an adjustment thing. all sorts of things change with the character of a team that doesn't trust its goalie. the biggest one I saw last season with the flyers and bryzgalov was defensemen way overplaying pucks in an apparent attempt to let NO shots through. and it was successful, to an extent, 7th fewest shots against in the league. problem is, that kind of complete shutdown of any moment of possession in the offensive zone pulls guys out of position and leaves weak side holes everywhere. sometimes you have to trust your goalie to make a save on a clean shot in order to maintain coverage against more complicated plays. bryzgalov has a bad habit of making any shot at all a threatening play, and that encourages chaos.

yes, it's on the coach to stop that from happening, but....maintaining coverage discipline would result in increased shot totals, and with one of the worst save percentages in the league, goals against go up even more than they were to begin with. this is the kind of creeping cancer that I see as a primary reason to not let bryzgalov ever wear a flyers jersey again. his play corrodes that of the guys in front of him.

counterpoint is what we saw from the team in the 7 games mason played. yes, very very small sample, and yes, throw away garbage games, but...the coverage was tight. guys stayed in position and with their checks and trusted their goalie to make the saves he had to make. and he delivered, reinforcing their trust and willingness to play a more disciplined game.

that kind of thing snowballs. the goalie is there is stop pucks, but beyond that, he to a large extent determines the temperament of the skaters in front of him.

[DaGreatGazoo]

Using today's date as the buyout date....

Ilya Bryzgalov buyout from CapGeek.com

• 2013-14: -$690,476
  
• 2014-15: $1,309,524
  
• 2015-16: $1,309,524
  
• 2016-17: $1,809,524
  
• 2017-18: $1,809,524
  
• 2018-19: $5,059,524
  
• 2019-20: $6,059,524
  
• 2020-21: $1,642,857
  
• 2021-22: $1,642,857
  
• 2022-23: $1,642,857
  
• 2023-24: $1,642,857
  
• 2024-25: $1,642,857
  
• 2025-26: $1,642,857
  
• 2026-27: $1,642,857
  

Edited June 20, 2013 by DaGreatGazoo

[radoran]

counterpoint is what we saw from the team in the 7 games mason played. yes, very very small sample, and yes, throw away garbage games, but...the coverage was tight. guys stayed in position and with their checks and trusted their goalie to make the saves he had to make. and he delivered, reinforcing their trust and willingness to play a more disciplined game.

Yeah, but Bryz did beat the playoff-bound Islanders 2-1 with a .950+ SV% and the team did hammer the playoff-bound Canadiens 7-4 in front of Bryz as well.

In general, the team played much better once they were eliminated from playoff contention - in front of both goalies.

I understand the concept of "not liking" a goalie and it affecting play. By all accounts, Tom Barasso was apparently sandpaper to deal with and still the team won. Tim Thomas wasn't liked in the Bruins locker room and isn't particularly likeable (this said as a fellow UVM alum) but Boston won the Cup.

Yes, both goalies could be considered generally superior to Bryz in every way.

But, while chemistry is an extremely important thing, there are many examples of teams succeeding with goalies who aren't particularly liked in the room. So, Jagr's over the top 24/7 jape notwithstanding, the key thing is how Bryz plays.

Bryz's play hasn't made up for his deficiencies in the locker room.

Which is why he's not going to be here in 14-15, if he's even here next season.

On a side note, I also think that HBO 24/7 crippled this squad.

[OccamsRazor]

Seven garbage games after the team was eliminated from the playoffs is no where near the same thing as carrying a team in a 82-game season plus playoffs.

Well it's just a small sample where the 50 million dollar man played also, with the same cast yet strangely didn't get close to the same results (which if he cared he should have felt threatened yet he preferred nap time)...

...so make up whatever reason that it did or didn't happen i will remain cautiously optimistic and i suggest you should too...it won't kill ya.

I'm not saying he going to be the next vezina winner...he just has to come in confident and this team will get behind him when he lets his play do the talking.

I would prefer they cut ties with Bryz and ship him to the moon find some more competition for Mason...yet i wouldn't feel surprised if he's around till next buy out chance.

[mojo1917]

I haven't seen any evidence whatsoever that Laviolette has the slightest clue of how to handle a goalie nor that Homer has any idea how to evaluate one.

this /\

i feel it's Lavy's most serious flaw. His teams skate hard and are exciting to watch but he got lucky with Ward heating up when the 'canes won the cup.

I think he needs a guy he can trust and the Flyers haven't had that guy on the roster for him yet.