TSN: Flyers off-season game plan

[RonJeremy]

The Flyers definitely need defense, if anyone thinks we can be a contender with them same guys on the blueline, you are on dope. Timmo is our only offensive dman, he is 39 and fading fast, he needs a reduced role. He cannot play #1 minutes, if we dont get a top guy, Timmo will be totally shot by March from overuse, and if he gets hurt, its all over for the Flyers. Mez is coming of 2 shoulder surgeries, back surgery and acchilles tendon surgery over the last few years, you cannot count on him. Bourdon, showed great promise, but has had repeated concussions, one hit and he could be done. Grossman is also coming off a bad conccussion, you never know how these injuroes play out, he could be fine or he could take one hit and be done. Gus showed promise but is very small and has been injured the last 2 seasons.

So Timmo, Mez, Bourdon, Grossman and Gus are all question marks , either due to age, injuries ,inexperience, etc, the only guys you can really count on are Schenn, and Coburn ,so it is imperative we land a big minutes legit defenseman, preferably a guy with puck rushing and offensive skill. Other than Timmo we have no offensive dman, Gus has potential and so does Bourdon, but neither are a top 4 dman, let alone a top 2.

We have no shot at signing Pieterangelo for St Louis, they will match any offer, we should target Shattenkirk, or Bogosian from the Jets. I have no idea of cap issues with other teams, but you figure if we offer Shattenkirk a big contract St Louis cant match, because they need to pay Pieterangelo, Bogosian is a good, upcoming dman to target. Even if we land one of these guys we still need another dman, which we should draft, you wont get another shot at so many good dmen in a draft and we usually are not picking 11th, so this is the year to finally land a franchise dman.

If Laugton and Cousins are NHL ready, then maybe they are the bait for a young dman, or maybe Coots is the bait and Laugton/Cousins replace him as the defensive center. To me, if we cant land a Shattenkirk or Bogosian, then we should trade either Coots, Cousins or Laugton and land another first rounder, of course you want to make sure the right guys are still on the board if you make a trade, so you target a team and as their pick is coming up, you make the offer, you dont trade ahead of time and then the guys you want have been picked.

So the moves id make would be to pick a guy like Ristolanen or Zadorov, who are big hitters and close to NHL ready altough I prefer Risto, then with the second pick we got in a trade ,we draft an ofensive dman like Pulock, who may take a year tto join the team, but we can fill big needs on our blueline, and be set for the future. We have 2 more centers in Cousins and Laugton, we are overlaoded at center, and we need defense, it make sense to trade a center.

[murraycraven]

Rj.. Great post but zadorov Imo is nowhere near NHL ready. The kid is a project... I like Risto and hope he lands with the Flyers.

I also have no faith in Coburn as he has failed to live up to expectations thus far and also was hurt after a miserable season this year.

[doom88]

The Flyers definitely need defense, if anyone thinks we can be a contender with them same guys on the blueline, you are on dope. Timmo is our only offensive dman, he is 39 and fading fast, he needs a reduced role. He cannot play #1 minutes, if we dont get a top guy, Timmo will be totally shot by March from overuse, and if he gets hurt, its all over for the Flyers. Mez is coming of 2 shoulder surgeries, back surgery and acchilles tendon surgery over the last few years, you cannot count on him. Bourdon, showed great promise, but has had repeated concussions, one hit and he could be done. Grossman is also coming off a bad conccussion, you never know how these injuroes play out, he could be fine or he could take one hit and be done. Gus showed promise but is very small and has been injured the last 2 seasons.

So Timmo, Mez, Bourdon, Grossman and Gus are all question marks , either due to age, injuries ,inexperience, etc, the only guys you can really count on are Schenn, and Coburn ,so it is imperative we land a big minutes legit defenseman, preferably a guy with puck rushing and offensive skill. Other than Timmo we have no offensive dman, Gus has potential and so does Bourdon, but neither are a top 4 dman, let alone a top 2.

We have no shot at signing Pieterangelo for St Louis, they will match any offer, we should target Shattenkirk, or Bogosian from the Jets. I have no idea of cap issues with other teams, but you figure if we offer Shattenkirk a big contract St Louis cant match, because they need to pay Pieterangelo, Bogosian is a good, upcoming dman to target. Even if we land one of these guys we still need another dman, which we should draft, you wont get another shot at so many good dmen in a draft and we usually are not picking 11th, so this is the year to finally land a franchise dman.

If Laugton and Cousins are NHL ready, then maybe they are the bait for a young dman, or maybe Coots is the bait and Laugton/Cousins replace him as the defensive center. To me, if we cant land a Shattenkirk or Bogosian, then we should trade either Coots, Cousins or Laugton and land another first rounder, of course you want to make sure the right guys are still on the board if you make a trade, so you target a team and as their pick is coming up, you make the offer, you dont trade ahead of time and then the guys you want have been picked.

So the moves id make would be to pick a guy like Ristolanen or Zadorov, who are big hitters and close to NHL ready altough I prefer Risto, then with the second pick we got in a trade ,we draft an ofensive dman like Pulock, who may take a year tto join the team, but we can fill big needs on our blueline, and be set for the future. We have 2 more centers in Cousins and Laugton, we are overlaoded at center, and we need defense, it make sense to trade a center.

The Flyers can be a contender with their current defensive lineup, and you are the phallic-envying dope.

Seriously, no one was healthy, so you clean house? I disagree. People always want the Flyers to let players grow together and not rush out in the grass is greener approach. The team will be fine if everyone does their part. Forwards need to back check and keep their skates moving for breakout pass receptions. Bryz needs to go, and whoever ends up playing net needs to actually inspire a remote level of confidence with the regular saves and a few nice ones on the breakaways. Blah blah, I've said the rest before.

The defense needs to grow, together. Defensive pairs needs to know each other, where they will be, and who takes what responsibility. That can only happen with time. Bailing will restart the process. An quite frankly, when the **** do you expect the drafted defender to make a real difference in the NHL roster, assuming he even makes it? I'm not saying draft another center, but I am saying don't count on the defender, if drafted, to matter for five years.

Let us keep some perspective on real life here.

[doom88]

Take that post lightly, posted from happy hour margaritas of increasing strength on an empty stomach. Stay thirsty my friends.

[brelic]

I am not advocating a big makeover of the blueline, and I don't even think that's practical given where teh team is cap-wise. But they do need one very, VERY good defenseman. And they know it thmsleves, otherwise Homer would not have tried to sign Weber a year ago. They need a calming presence to help Gus, Luke Schenn, and others to to keep growing. I am not sure who is even available, but they do need a difference maker on the blue line. THey can't go into the training camp with this defensive corps.

The defense was very hard to watch this year. It was downright brutal... and the forwards didn't exactly help them out.

So what kind of move did you have in mind? Were you thinking established defenseman? Young and still developing prospect? Short-term veteran help (e.g. Streit)?

[mojo1917]

I don't want Streit based on how much he will command and his age and overall play which is good but he's not as good as Matt Carle and paying Streit Carle money and getting Streit's play will give me irritable bowel syndrome.

Who knows if any of these kids from junior are ready to play defense in the NHL. Jones probably and then who? They won't be a factor in a reliably good way for 2-3 years best case and probably more in the real world.

Look to the NCAA see if there are guys at the major programs available to sign as free agents. The list of guys who spend little time in the A and go straight to the NHL keeps growing... Torrey Kruger says what's up.

Every one that I thought would look nice in O/B has been signed long term before they hit the market, Enstrom comes readily to mind.

So it looks like a trade if the team wants to upgrade at defense, which I think they need a cornerstone guy , to do.

I don't know what parts get the cornerstone Eric Dejardins type player in return.

No one takes Metzaros and prospects and gives up a top pairing guy in return now that Howson's out of the league.

[RonJeremy]

@doom88, youve got it wrong, everyone envys my phallus, I never said clean house, where do I say that? I said you cant count on the injured guys, also said Timmo is old, I also said we need to draft or sign dmen,. We havea great collection of 4-6 defenseman, stay at home types...we have Coburn whos a #3 guy and no young 1 or 2 guy...everything I said is true. Read my post again

[OccamsRazor]

1 or 2 guy

they are on the team now Coburn and Schenn i think they should be paired up....i can see it, now them actually living up to that potential is another story.

Force em.

[brelic]

Homer would totally redeem himself if he somehow, someway managed to snag Evander Kane and Zach Bogosian from the Jets. Kane sounds like he wants out of Winnipeg (read between the lines on his Twitter feed), and Bogosian is out of favour.

Give them Coots, swap first rounders (they pick 13th), give them Coburn, and one other piece (Read? 2nd rounder?). Not sure that would be enough?

Anyway, Kane would look incredible on the Flyers, and Bogosian has lots of time to find his game.

[OccamsRazor]

Evander Kane

Swap out Mezz for Coburn and i'm in! Coby/ Bogosian would be the 2nd D pair.

Basically Kimmo/Schenn...Coby/Bogo....Gus/GrossmanN!!!! I like...so slot Kane/Giroux/Voracek!!!!!!!!!!!! 1st line!!!!!!

...then i woke up!!!!!!!!!!

[brelic]

Swap out Mezz for Coburn and i'm in! Coby/ Bogosian would be the 2nd D pair.

Basically Kimmo/Schenn...Coby/Bogo....Gus/GrossmanN!!!! I like...so slot Kane/Giroux/Voracek!!!!!!!!!!!! 1st line!!!!!!

...then i woke up!!!!!!!!!!

Haha, I know it's a pipe dream, but it's all I got.

[OccamsRazor]

Haha, I know it's a pipe dream, but it's all I got.

Well they have a lot of work to do...only 7 forwards under contract for next season and 4 Dman and Pavelec!!!!!!!!!

[jammer2]

The need for a top flight elite d-man is obvious. I just don't see how the team will pull it off. In the end, it's nothing close to a real answer, but a reclamaion project like Runblad might be the best this team can do right now. Not necessarily Runblad per say, but a deal along those lines, a diamond in the rough where our scouting and projections uncover a gem without gutting the team.

Shattenkirk as a RFA is enticing, esp when you factor in the Blues will be all in on securing the services of their star Pietrangelo. I believe they would have trouble matching an RFA poaching of Shatts once the long term commitment is made to Alex. The actual cap money would be there, but the small market Blues usually have a self imposed cap, one that could probably not handle the big pay day Shattenkirk may command. Here is my problem with that type of move, Shatts is not a legit elite d-man, but a RFA signing would pay him like one, it would be a reach....one that may or may not work out, in a lot of ways, Bogosian is in the same boat, projects well, is still young with room to develop and grow into a top role, but would require a vast overpayment, at least in the front portion of that contract. I don't know if the Flyers could handle another long term deal blowing up in their faces. Cap wise, we are just not in a positon to overpay for a long term contract.

I think we missed the boat on Cunderi....he was acquired from the Blues, now resides in Calgary and looked very, very comfortable on the Flames blue line to end the year. Lots of offensive upside and could have been had very cheap. This is the type of move we should be looking at, a Cunderi, Runblad type that could turn out to be a star but not upset our nucleus or cap space. Toronto is straight up loaded on defense, so maybe a Jesse Blacker could be had fairly cheap, he can run a pp and has a lot of upside, but the sheer volume of quality Leaf blueliners make it next to impossible for him to break in at the NHL level. Stuart Percy would be more expensive, but again, would not rip our core apart or hurt our cap space.

Edit, another possible target would be Tyson Barrie of the Aves. A cheap offensive minded d-man who looks good on the pp and might be had for a respectable price. These are the types we should be looking at.

Edited June 11, 2013 by jammer2

[flyercanuck]

@jammer2

I really hope we're done trying to outbid other teams for players. It's got us nowhere other than high up the salary level for 2 decades. What good is having Shattenkirk overpaid on this team?

[jammer2]

@flyercanuck Totally agree, there needs to be a new approach.....but as Metz put it the other day, the Flyer upper management and fan base are "wired" into this contend now type of attitude....which does not coinside at all with patience. It sucks, it really does, I'm horrified at what Homer may pull off this summer. This whacko is capable of anything. The days of reaching and overpaying must be done once and for all, or the repercussions will be severe.

[OccamsRazor]

Shattenkirk as a RFA is enticing, esp when you factor in the Blues will be all in on securing the services of their star Pietrangelo.

The Josi deal the other say had to raise the ceiling on Pietrangelo right???

Josi cap hit is only 4 mill....so you would think Pietrangelo might call for 5-6mill per no? If not higher...so would they want the trouble of trying to sign them both or sign one and then just trade the other for forward help which they need.

[jammer2]

@OccamsRazor

Not really sure, but I seem to recall the Blues being sold a while ago, so if there is new ownership, they might not be thrifty as their predecessors. Time will tell I guess.