offense from your defense

[murraycraven]

I'll let the cap experts duke it out because I don't have time to look at numbers, but just as good an idea as any. I wonder about Lauridsen being ready and would substitute Gus in his place for now, but ultimately yeah, not bad.

I am not sure this would fall under the cap as Byf has a 5.2M cap hit and with the cap going down it would be almost a lateral move w/ losing Briere. There would be no space to sign Boyle unless you got rid of more space. I think Gus's play over the final games along w/ Sweden he deserves a shot at the top 6. I actually like Lauridsen but I think you would have to see what camp brought and let he and Gus fight for the remaining spot.

[ruxpin]

@murraycraven

I agree. I didn't think it really worked with the cap (it can but there would be a lot of other work to do to make it happen) but hadn't looked it up so didn't want to categorically state one way or the other.

That said it wasn't a horrible idea to throw out there.

[murraycraven]

Not all... I am actually in favor of it. Maybe you could move Coburn in a deal and let Gus and Lauridsen the jobs... There are ways that it could work and definitely not a bad idea!

[ruxpin]

Of course, if we also buyout Bryz...

[murraycraven]

@ rux... Problem solved but isn't going there 8-)

[ruxpin]

So much for a sucker being born every minute.

[OccamsRazor]

Maybe you could move Coburn in a deal

Or just sit Coby down a pop in the recording of last nights game show the play of Krug...to be so small and young kid was nice...

...showing how to handle a the puck and get shots through....hell one play that was so nice he faked the slapper then when to side step faked that then got a wrister through ON NET!!!!

If i was to eeeeever eva eva eva eeeevvvvaaaa see Coburn make a play like that i would just **** my pants!!!! :blink:

Edit: And to think the Bruins were dangling Krug for Briere....uh uh uh won't happen again....

2nd edit...can tell i've already started the pre grilling pre game drinking...no????

Edited June 2, 2013 by OccamsRazor

[ruxpin]

2nd edit...can tell i've already started the pre grilling pre game drinking...no????

LMFAO After your first line I was going to ask how many you were on!

(hey, when you're sober, would you please mind translating for us?)

[murraycraven]

Hahaha!!! That is funny stuff OR... Just keep drinking and all will be good!

[OccamsRazor]

LMFAO After your first line I was going to ask how many you were on!

(hey, when you're sober, would you please mind translating for us?)

Sorry you're gonna have to wait at least 24 hours on that one but did anyone see this mentioned in the article below????

Byfuglien and Burmi for the Schenns?

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Peter-Tessier/Byfuglien-and-Burmi-for-the-Schenns/161/51876#.Uau86djCSSo

Huh.....myself...no way in hell...put up all those numbers you want but i don't like.

[ruxpin]

Huh.....myself...no way in hell...put up all those numbers you want but i don't like.

I'll second that...hiccup...sentiment.

[toughfighter83]

I'll second that...hiccup...sentiment.

me too, not for both schenns because this team needs more defense by not substracting a defender, i would give up read and coburn for buf, i mean we have so many good wingers/centers on this roster i dont think getting rid of read would hurt this team since homer loves getting wingers/centers, this team needs defense for this team to compete at least 2 good defenders like buf and boyle or maybe mark streit. even if they got webber last year, it's not enough, they need another defender.

[hf101]

@toughfighter83

Why do you favor acquiring Boyle from the Sharks? He has another year at a cap hit of 6.6M, he is also 36 years old, and Holmgren would have to trade away some value as in a player or prospects to get him. How are we building the teams defense for the future with that?

Big Buff is a Bust. Winnipeg wants to unload him because he is a lazy and out of shape.

As far as Streit goes, he is past his prime also. If you want an up tempo, fast skating, puck moving team it is time to stop signing the 35+ players.

No Thanks!

[OccamsRazor]

.hiccup

you're drinking too???????????

cheeeeeeerrrrs!!!!!!!!

[toughfighter83]

@toughfighter83

Why do you favor acquiring Boyle from the Sharks? He has another year at a cap hit of 6.6M, he is also 36 years old, and Holmgren would have to trade away some value as in a player or prospects to get him. How are we building the teams defense for the future with that?

Big Buff is a Bust. Winnipeg wants to unload him because he is a lazy and out of shape.

As far as Streit goes, he is past his prime also. If you want an up tempo, fast skating, puck moving team it is time to stop signing the 35+ players.

No Thanks!

because there's no one else out there that can help us, unless you want unload a ton of young players for a young unproven defender, even with that it wont help this team it's not enough depth, even if this team drafts a defender in the first round it will take years and all the complaining about wanting a cup now, then homer has to get a vet defensemen for this team to go over the top because defensemen take years to develop and with timms retiring, this team is going to get worse. So if they dont do something to try to win now, it can take years for this team to come back in the hunt. Because you cant win with a depleted defense.

Edited June 3, 2013 by toughfighter83

[ruxpin]

@toughfighter83

What you're saying has some merit, but I would personally go a different direction.

The complaint was Big Buff is washed up and lazy. I wonder about this. What I wonder is that he seemed fairly good until the team moved to Winnepeg. I wonder if it's not the contract that's making him lazy but rather a lack of desire to play IN Winnepeg. I don't know, I'm just throwing that out there.

I like Boyle. I get where you're going there. But I wonder if he's not the type of piece you add when you're ready to put the star on the Christmas tree. Know what I mean? I just don't think we have a team that's in the position to add "that final piece." I just suspect that Holmgren, if he got him even at his age, would immediately sign him to an idiotically long contract and we'd have Hatcher/Rathje/Pronger all over again. I do like that thought as a final piece kind of thing, though.

But now that we know the type of player you're talking about, I wonder if it would be worthwhile to look at similar but younger. You wouldn't get the veteran thing out of it, but you might get the skill set--or at least similar. I don't have any specifically in mind at the moment, but maybe you or someone else does.

Big Buff is intriguing to me but it might be a crap shoot at a high cost (the concern HF101 mentioned). It would definitely get you a big body out there who can shoot.

[hf101]

@toughfighter83

because there's no one else out there that can help us

-- then fine. I think our defense is much better than you are giving credit for. We really never had a healthy defensive corp last year. We really only need one more d-man next season.

Schenn - Timonen

Coburn - Gustafsson

Grossman - ?? / Meszaros

Lauridson - Gervais

We don't need to trade a "ton" of prospects to obtain a 5-6 d-man.

What do you mean by unproven?? What is unacceptable with a solid AHLer who has some NHL minutes?

I'd give up a player like Nick Cousins or Scott Laughton for say Marco Scandella out of Minnesota. Scandella gives us youth moving forward as well as a solid all around d-man.

I think that would be enough depth with what Holmgren has added to the Phantoms thus far. If need be you add another d-man at the trade deadline.

The following year you sign a FA in place of Timonen.....there is a lot more to choose from then.

Edited June 3, 2013 by hf101
added Grossman to the post

[ruxpin]

You know, I'm looking through the free agent list for defensemen this summer and there isn't a whole helluvalot to choose from that meets what you're looking for.

Marc-Andre Bergeron probably does some of the offensive stuff but he's really a question mark on defense. Perennially a negative +/-

Cam Barker did some nice things in Chicago but has done little since. He might come cheap and be a half-decent option as a 2nd or 3rd pairing, but I think he's hardly the type of d-man you're talking about.

I'm higher on Mark Streit than some others on here. I don't think his shortened season stats this year were far off from what he'd been doing previously. My concern, however, would be his age and I think he'd cost some coin. The other problem is he also has huge negative numbers on +/-. What he contributes in scoring he more than gives away with lousy defense. I'd entertain him as a third pairing/PP specialist but I don't think he's looking for that little ice time at this point and I don't think the Flyers will want to pay him the money he is going to be looking for for that. Among the free agents, it's as good a possibility as any, though.

The rest of the free agents have some "eh, give it a shot" but nothing that stands out as the caliber you're talking about.

So, we'd be down to a trade. I think it was you who mentioned including Read in a trade. I'm not real happy about moving Read because he's one of my favorites, but others have mentioned him as well. And your supporting that idea with the fact we ARE deep at forward (and always will be as long as we keep using all of our draft picks on forwards) resonates. I have to think that at his value vs. his salary that he'd be as likely a trade candidate for someone decent as anyone. I'd be sorry to see him go, but I guess ultimately he's forgettable.

[ruxpin]

The following year you sign a FA in place of Timonen.....there is a lot more to choose from then.

I just looked at capgeek in response to that line. Man, I'm sure some of the people get signed between now and then, but the names are vastly better than this year's crop.

I do think this year there are some decent stop-gap ideas to compliment what we have and then go get a "last piece" type next summer.

I think we should be a playoff team next year (on paper with some complimentary pieces) but I don't think we have a team ready for that kind of piece just yet.

[ruxpin]

Schenn - Timonen

Coburn - Gustafsson

Meszaros - ??

Lauridson - Gervais

Did you forget Grossman or did you leave him out on purpose?

I don't think it's that bad plus maybe a complimentary-type pick up. But you have a lot more faith in Meszaros than I do. Aside from the fact I was never much of a fan, I think he may be done. At the very least, it's difficult to make a case for depending on him given his injury issues. Don't you think?

[hf101]

Did you forget Grossman or did you leave him out on purpose?

I don't think it's that bad plus maybe a complimentary-type pick up. But you have a lot more faith in Meszaros than I do. Aside from the fact I was never much of a fan, I think he may be done. At the very least, it's difficult to make a case for depending on him given his injury issues. Don't you think?

You are right. Funny I was looking at him on the list as to where to put him and then I skipped him. Which adds to my point that we really are a lot better off going into this season than last season.

As far as Meszaros. I'm content with him as a 5-6 d-man. He basically is un-tradeable to start the season.

[ruxpin]

I think if you add him (Grossman) to the list you have the possibility of either Coburn or Meszaros being expendable should you choose to move one. I'd want a dman coming back either in the trade or via free agency because I don't even want Gervais in the parking lot. If you keep both you should be okay if Meszaros ends up not being able to play. But I'd see if I could use one in a package for a top two line scoring winger and then go sign a serviceable 2nd or 3rd pair guy off of free agency.

What do you think? Craziness?

[ruxpin]

Does anyone know anything about Andre Benoit? He seemed okay in the playoffs but I really haven't seen much of him. He's fairly young and would come cheap.

[aziz]

<br />Which adds to my point that we really are a lot better off going into this season than last season.<br />

it's true, the flyers were missing 5 of their starting top 6 at one point, weren't they? everyone back and healthy is a huge upgrade to the mess of last season. that said, there isn't an impact figure there. that, I think, is ultimately what people want to see when they start threads like this: there has to be someone whose name has been mentioned in Norris voting in the last 3 years or things are hopeless. right or wrong.

As far as Meszaros. I'm content with him as a 5-6 d-man. He basically is un-tradeable to start the season.

what's the over/under on him stabilizing and getting a majority of a season in without serious injury? I mean, do we figure that just isn't gonna happen, or has he been way unlucky for the last couple years? I really don't know. really like him as a possible 2/3 guy if he could put a run of games together.

[hf101]

As far as Big Buff goes, maybe part of the problem is Winnipeg. But he showed up to training camp last season out of shape reports were around 280lb.

Then here is a report in late March as the Jets are trying to make a playoff run.

Dustin Byfuglien can be better and he must be if the Winnipeg Jets are going to proceed as a playoff team and perhaps beyond.

He looks tired right now. That’s not an adjective a hockey player wants attached to his game. It doesn’t offer much promise for success.

Byfuglien, who has six goals and 15 assists through 31 games, remains an unsolved enigma. The Jets have worked with him to improve his off-season conditioning so he can be consistently dominant. It hasn’t happened and now when they need him most, he appears out of juice and unable to summon his powers.

The margin of error for the Jets is too thin for their best players to disappear such as Byfuglien has of late, as he’s collected three points and been a minus-four over his last six games.

Saturday the big blue-liner was OK and likely the best he’s been after a number of sub-par games. But OK isn’t enough where Byfuglien and the Jets are concerned.

Jets coach Claude Noel paused and considered his answer when asked to assess Byfuglien’s play over the last five or six games.

"Well, he’s been... I’ll just say up and down," replied Noel, leaving much open to interpretation.

Noel has stated Byfuglien can be an elite defender and it must be frustrating to have him floating along in the pack. If Byfuglien wanted to separate himself from the rest and join names like Chara and Weber he could. They have nothing on him in raw ability.

But he’s not there and it’s beginning to look like he never will be.

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