Organization is split on Bryzgalov

[ZeZel25]

From Tim P on Hockeybuzz this morning

http://www.hockeybuz...35#.UWQuiKIqZ8E

I found the bit about Bryzgalov interesting and troubling.

Sounds to me like there needs to be a whole lot of convincing Snider to amnesty Bryz. I would bet it doesn't happen this year. There really is no way to get a better goaltender without affecting the roster, and why would you do that unless you absolutely have to? WIth a healthy blueline and forwards who've gained another year of experience, the team as a whole should be better on defense next season.

Going with Bryz as the starter and Mason as the guy pushing to be #1 next season, it's virtually risk-free. If neither works out, you can buy out Bryz and let Mason go somewhere else.

And then we'll be right back where we are just about every 2 years.

Meszaros might have CHRONIC shoulder issues. Grossman has concussion issues, Pronger is DONE, Timo is 95 years old and Coburn has I suck issues. Where exactly can you rely on that defense next year? Bryz AND Briere should be bought out and get at least 3 defenseman. I'd rather have Mason with 3 better d-men picked up to go with Timo, Lauridsen and whoever than Bryz with a defensive unit like this again. Maybe Ray Emery and at least 2 D added

[flyercanuck]

@

Then again Bryz, Timonen a year older and the same D might get us Ekblad next year. Of course this board will explode if we're this bad again next year. But I'm all for it.

[brelic]

How important is that experience if it is in sucking? You have a goalie who really knows how to be terrible, is an old hand at it, why is that better than someone who is new to the concept?

Just out of curiosity, what were your expectations for Bryzgalov?

Last year, he performed almost exactly as could be expected given his career. It wasn't a career year by any stretch, but he had his 3rd highest career GAA, 3rd highest win total, and his save % was about in the middle of his career high/low. THat's pretty respectable for a new team, new town, new contract.

This year is a low point in his career (2nd worst GAA, worst save %).

So either he just all of a sudden 'sucks', which I doubt is the case, or he's having a very off year, which happens to almost all players.

I think his contract and the Snider welcome wagon created expectations that just were not realistic.

[brelic]

Meszaros might have CHRONIC shoulder issues. Grossman has concussion issues, Pronger is DONE, Timo is 95 years old and Coburn has I suck issues. Where exactly can you rely on that defense next year? Bryz AND Briere should be bought out and get at least 3 defenseman. I'd rather have Mason with 3 better d-men picked up to go with Timo, Lauridsen and whoever than Bryz with a defensive unit like this again. Maybe Ray Emery and at least 2 D added

I'll give you Meszaros. But Grossman has had ONE concussion, as far as I'm aware. Timo is old, but he's performing like a young buck; he may have lost a step, but is having an excellent year offensively, and one extra year I can handle. Pronger isn't even part of this discussion and never will be. And Coburn, well, he hasn't had the best year, but as a 3/4 guy, I think he can bounce back and be serviceable.

It's not all doom and gloom. Timo, Grossman, Schenn, Coburn, Gus, and someone else are your top 6 next year. Maybe Lauridsen, or Bourdon (now HE has concussion issues) round out the top 6, or maybe we sign another stiff in the offseason. Meszaros could be sent away for whatever scraps we can get. I like him, but he's not dependable.

[aziz]

<br />Just out of curiosity, what were your expectations for Bryzgalov?<br />

my expectations were that he would be terrible and only worth maybe a third of his cap hit. hey, look, I nailed it.

he has always been a deeply deeply flawed goalie with serious mobility issues and arguably even more serious focus problems. he played behind protect-the-goalie-at-all-cost defenses in Anaheim and Phoenix that led some people to the unrealistic expectations you mention. not trying to pat myself on the back, but what we have now is exactly what I (loudly) predicted we would have the day his rights were traded for (and even more loudly when his contract was signed).

[brelic]

my expectations were that he would be terrible and only worth maybe a third of his cap hit. hey, look, I nailed it.

he has always been a deeply deeply flawed goalie with serious mobility issues and arguably even more serious focus problems. he played behind protect-the-goalie-at-all-cost defenses in Anaheim and Phoenix that led some people to the unrealistic expectations you mention. not trying to pat myself on the back, but what we have now is exactly what I (loudly) predicted we would have the day his rights were traded for (and even more loudly when his contract was signed).

I guess you did nail it

I wasn't sold on him either... I can't say I watched him much before, but I figured that *any* goalie in our system would not perform very well. The only exception would be an elite goaltender like a Lundqvist, of which there are very few. I almost blew a gasket when I heard the terms of the deal!

I'm not sold on Bernier either. Sure, he's outperforming Quick (who was given yet another stupid contract), but LA made their choice already, and can't hang on to him. I wouldn't pay more than a Couturier for him. Top prospect for top prospect. Sounds fair to me. But I wouldn't hold my breath. I don't think we'll end up with him. Something tells me Sneaky Lou will swoop in and secure the next Devils goaltender who will haunt us for the next decade and a half.

[JackStraw]

I guess you did nail it

I wasn't sold on him either... I can't say I watched him much before, but I figured that *any* goalie in our system would not perform very well. The only exception would be an elite goaltender like a Lundqvist, of which there are very few. I almost blew a gasket when I heard the terms of the deal!

I'm not sold on Bernier either. Sure, he's outperforming Quick (who was given yet another stupid contract), but LA made their choice already, and can't hang on to him. I wouldn't pay more than a Couturier for him. Top prospect for top prospect. Sounds fair to me. But I wouldn't hold my breath. I don't think we'll end up with him. Something tells me Sneaky Lou will swoop in and secure the next Devils goaltender who will haunt us for the next decade and a half.

Personally, if Couturier is going to be traded I would rather it be for a defenseman than a goaltender. I just think goalies are too hard to predict. Bernier looks good, as a backup in a defense friendly system in a low pressure market. That's a lot different than being the starter in Philly. I also fear yet another knee jerk reaction by Flyers management. Take advantage of the extra year allowed for amnesty buyouts and keep the universe around and focus on re-tooling the defense. Then after next year see where you are goalie-wise.

And if they do go amnesty Bryz this year, why not go after Emery? Assuming Chicago doesn't sign him, he's actually a proven starter and has even played for the Flyers. And we don't have to give up anything except Comcast $$$'s.

[aziz]

<br />I wouldn't pay more than a Couturier for him. Top prospect for top prospect. Sounds fair to me. <br />

probably less than that, I would think. top prospect for top prospect, yes, but 30 teams would find a use for couturier, only a few for bernier. I mean, when couturier is talked about as a moveable asset, Detroit could use him, vancouver could use him, pittburgh could use him, everyone could use him. maybe not everyone wants him, but they'd at least be in the conversation at the very start. a young potential starting goalie, though, a lot of teams have what they want and would have no use. Detroit has howard, Vancouver has Schneider/luongo, Pittsburgh has fleury...they wouldn't be in the conversation at any point. thus, a larger market for couturier makes him the more valuable in trade.

it's an odd thing, given how vital a talented goalie is for a team without one, but they tend to bring less than their apparent worth in trade. just more a specialized commodity.

you're right, though NJ worries me on that front. they would be in the conversation, and probably hard.

Edited April 11, 2013 by aziz

[aziz]

And if they do go amnesty Bryz this year, why not go after Emery? Assuming Chicago doesn't sign him, he's actually a proven starter and has even played for the Flyers. And we don't have to give up anything except Comcast $$$'s.

I agree with you. I guess the thing to me is it is really rare for a goalie bernier's age to look as promising as he does. he is what the very few long term elite goalies look like at the very start of their careers. that doesn't happen all that often. you're right, definitely a gamble and couturier might be too much for that gamble. i'd still like the flyers to find out exactly what it would take, and then think long and hard about it.

[BearOnIce]

Agreed, Danny had some good years for us and for that we are grateful but the time has come to part ways. I will say that Danny made me eat my words because when we acquired him, I was pushing hard for Drury instead but boy was I wrong with that call. In my defense, I lived in Colorado for a number of years and watched Drury through his prime and as one of the cornerstones to the Avs championships and thought he could bring that play to the Flyers but he didnt have much left in the tank at that point and kind of fizzled out with the Rangers and eventually retired.

The Flyers will do it with class because that is how Snider likes to do it for his players that have gone the distance for him. Right with you on Drury. Fizzled is a good way to put it. Nothing like Briere numbers.

[JackStraw]

I agree with you. I guess the thing to me is it is really rare for a goalie bernier's age to look as promising as he does. he is what the very few long term elite goalies look like at the very start of their careers. that doesn't happen all that often. you're right, definitely a gamble and couturier might be too much for that gamble. i'd still like the flyers to find out exactly what it would take, and then think long and hard about it.

If they could get him without giving up key assets like a top 6 forward or a #1 pick, then I'd say go for it. If they hadn't grabbed Mason I'd be more inclined to look hard at Bernier. Not that I have a lot of confidence that Mason will return to his rookie form, but he does have talent and since they have him letting him play behind Bryz for a year seems like a sensible approach.

[radoran]

And if they do go amnesty Bryz this year, why not go after Emery? Assuming Chicago doesn't sign him, he's actually a proven starter and has even played for the Flyers. And we don't have to give up anything except Comcast $$$'s.

He hasn't played more than 36 games in a season since 06-07.

That's not "proven starter" to me - no matter how good a backup he is for the current #1 overall points leader in the National Hockey League.

I'm not saying "not Emery" - I'm just questioning his durability. He was Very Good for the Flyers until his injury and then fell apaart.

[aziz]

@JackStraw

if the price was read and mcginn?

[JackStraw]

He hasn't played more than 36 games in a season since 06-07.

That's not "proven starter" to me - no matter how good a backup he is for the current #1 overall points leader in the National Hockey League.

I'm not saying "not Emery" - I'm just questioning his durability. He was Very Good for the Flyers until his injury and then fell apaart.

Fair enough. I wasn't suggesting that he was a sure-fire long term solution, obviously there are some question marks. Which I would think would keep the price down a bit. But he has been a starter (and a good one) and he does seem to be healthy now. And he wouldn't cost the Flyers any picks or players. I think that's a reasonable risk to take.

[JackStraw]

@JackStraw

if the price was read and mcginn?

Oooh... would hate to give up both of those guys. But that's probably a fair price. I would love to see how McGinn develops though, I like what he's shown so far.

[brelic]

He was Very Good for the Flyers until his injury and then fell apaart.

If Emery was "very good" for the Flyers, then Bryz was better than "very good" last year.

2.64, .905 is nothing to write home about.

Emery's entire career has been "ok". This year is really the exception.

[radoran]

Fair enough. I wasn't suggesting that he was a sure-fire long term solution, obviously there are some question marks. Which I would think would keep the price down a bit. But he has been a starter (and a good one) and he does seem to be healthy now. And he wouldn't cost the Flyers any picks or players. I think that's a reasonable risk to take.

Sure, but would Homer be "reasonable" about the signing?

I just wouldn't do what they did with him before and anoint him the starter immediately. Not sure what Rayzor is looking for in terms of term, cost and commitment from a team.

[radoran]

If Emery was "very good" for the Flyers, then Bryz was better than "very good" last year.

2.64, .905 is nothing to write home about.

6-3-1 in October, 2.46/.915

Then he got injured and "tried to play through it" in November - 5-4, 2.85/.897 and 0-1, 9.61/.706 in December

Came back in January again, 4-3, 2.46/.911

Again - started off Very Good and then got injured.

[brelic]

6-3-1 in October, 2.46/.915

Then he got injured and "tried to play through it" in November - 5-4, 2.85/.897 and 0-1, 9.61/.706 in December

Came back in January again, 4-3, 2.46/.911

Again - started off Very Good and then got injured.

Even in Razor's best months, it equalled Bryz's "average" over the entire season last year.

I like the guy, I admire and respect what he's had to go through to get back to the game, but I think his numbers are an illusion, and someone will overpay for a mediocre goaltender.

[JackStraw]

Sure, but would Homer be "reasonable" about the signing?

Are you seriously asking me to look into the weird and wonderful mind of Homey? Seriously?

I just wouldn't do what they did with him before and anoint him the starter immediately. Not sure what Rayzor is looking for in terms of term, cost and commitment from a team.

I have no idea what he'd be looking for, and I wouldn't throw money and years at him. Three years at maybe around $3.5 millions? That's a nice raise over what he's getting now. Don't know if he'd go for it though. He's 30 now, so a three year deal would give him a chance for another decent contract if he works out.

[canoli]

when it comes to Emery I think you guys are missing (or just not factoring in) the most important thing about him and his career, which of course is the disease/injury that he overcame. If you don't know anything about it the story is well worth looking into. This guy overcame incredible odds to get healthy again, never mind play in the NHL. The fact that he's playing so well is really remarkable.

If you're looking for talent and character in a goalie look no further than Ray Emery. Yes he was a bit of a "hard case" early in his career but what he's accomplished is truly heroic.

[aziz]

plus, he punches assistant trainers who try to make him wear hats, and that's pretty awesome.

[canoli]

Ray ain't gonna be no damn spokesman for NObody! Ya savvy?

[flyercanuck]

plus, he punches assistant trainers who try to make him wear hats, and that's pretty awesome.

Now THAT is what you want in a goalie!

[ZeZel25]

I'll give you Meszaros. But Grossman has had ONE concussion, as far as I'm aware. Timo is old, but he's performing like a young buck; he may have lost a step, but is having an excellent year offensively, and one extra year I can handle. Pronger isn't even part of this discussion and never will be. And Coburn, well, he hasn't had the best year, but as a 3/4 guy, I think he can bounce back and be serviceable.

It's not all doom and gloom. Timo, Grossman, Schenn, Coburn, Gus, and someone else are your top 6 next year. Maybe Lauridsen, or Bourdon (now HE has concussion issues) round out the top 6, or maybe we sign another stiff in the offseason. Meszaros could be sent away for whatever scraps we can get. I like him, but he's not dependable.

Grossman has had concussions before! Last year around April he had one and missed time. That's 2 head injuries causing significant missed time, out the rest of the year, in a calendar year, thats nothing to piss around with. I believe he had them with Dallas as well. Look it up, you will find. I dont want Meszaros back here plain and simple. If the Flyers rely on an injury prone Meszaros, their fools.

Edited April 11, 2013 by twpguy