Mason over Bryz? REALLY?

[Hexy27]

what are you talking about? you "hope that Mason is not the answer but there's more value in Mason"???????

what does that even mean?

the bottom line is: who gives us the best chance to succeed and win a Cup. Mason is Terrible, he might be the worst goalie in the league. Bryz is not perfect but he is is much better than Mason and if he actually was able to take a game or two off, his stats and play would be much better. I don't care who you are, you can't be expected to play EVERY game and not get worn down.

Who has more value?

Bryz with his .899 at $5.6M cap hit or

Mason with his .899 at $2.9M cap hit

For the same output I would rather pay less. Thus there is more value in Mason at the moment. Bryz is marginally better than Mason and he is twice as expensive. I see Mason as a backup but even in that role he is more valuable than our current starter.

I never said either would win us a cup. The organization traded away a candidate franchise goal tender to Columbus last summer. Frankly those don't grow on trees.

[ruxpin]

Certainly, this year, Bryz has been very good.

Overstatement alert! Overstatement alert! Danger Will Robinson!

(I think money/contracts aside there are bigger problems on this team than Bryzgalov, but "very good" is a bit much)

I agree that there should be a backup and Bryz has played entirely too much. That cannot help his game at all. But here are the facts in the numbers that don't lie:

8th lowest shots allowed per game in the league. Top 10. That says the team defense is actually a bit better than we (myself included) claim.

4th worst save percentage in the league.

6th worst goals against average.

One can make the argument that while there isn't a high volume of shots that the quality is high. Maybe, but that's hard to quantify.

But what is clear is that the team is doing a fairly (and surprisingly) decent job of keeping the amount of rubber that Bryz sees down.

What is also clear is he's doing an incredibly lousy job of stopping the rubber that does come through.

Does that make him worse than Mason? I would argue no. My hope is Mason is the backup--and a significant improvement over Bouchton. If we're replacing Bryz with Mason, we're replacing crap with crap but not paying as much for the crap.

[Bertmega]

@caluso

You must have missed that game last night. Let me give you a refresher:

I guess if it were up to you he'd play every game (Bryzgalov)?

Besides, logic says the Flyers may actually want to have a top 5 pick in this years draft.

[mojo1917]

If we're replacing Bryz with Mason, we're replacing crap with crap but not paying as much for the crap.

hence the "more value" line of thinking we could get .899 for almost half the price and... and i'll bet you that Mason would have been paying attention to the game on that 3rd goal against Montreal.

[JackStraw]

Are we to believe that the Flyers are going to amnesty Bryz's contract for Mason

What makes you think that will happen?

[aziz]

<br />Certainly, this year, Bryz has been very good.<br />

I just....but....what?? this year, bryzgalov has been freaking brutal. are you kidding me?

you say things like, "it's the team in front of him that's been bad," to explain away his terribleness...so, why not do the same for mason? he has been playing in Columbus his whole career, after all. and the first year that bryzgalov plays on a team as bad as Columbus, his numbers end up exactly the same as mason's. interesting, no?

i'm not gonna lie and say that mason is a good solution, but I will say he is basically the same solution as bryzgalov, for half the price. bryzgalov = mason, the only difference being the teams bryzgalov has played for.

[Bertmega]

@Digityman

Wait Bryz can't stick handle or think the game through in real time? Says who?

Oh never mind, this about solidifies your point

[radoran]

do you think he was worth trading a 3rd rounder for?

Sure. I see it as fairly low risk move.

[BearOnIce]

Thank you Paul Holmgren, resident comedian - the jokes keep coming.

Are we to believe that the Flyers are going to amnesty Bryz's contract for Mason. Really???????? For all of Bryz's warts, he has been one of the few bright spots; and, I daresay, if he wasn't forced to play EVERY game, his stats and play would have been even better (but, when the resident comedian doesnt have a legitimate backup on the team...)

Has anyone in the Flyers personnel department (and I use that term loosely) seen how badly Mason has played the last 4 years? Since his roookie season, his save percentage of .899 ranks 39 out of 39 for goalies who have played at least 100 games. Terrible! And, this is the guy that Reese "believes in" and this is the guy who is going to replace Bryz. Hysterical. Then again, why was I dumb enough to think that our resident comedian could judge goaltending talent: he traded Bob and cut Ericksson,

Seriously, the laughs keep coming. As long as this idiot is making personnel decisions, we will be without the Cup.

FIRE HOLMGREN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Reese is The Issue.

[DaGreatGazoo]

I don't get the hatred for the Mason trade. Would people have preferred we trade Coots, or Schenn and a pick for Ben Bishop? Bishop has played 33 NHL games. 33. Bishop has a lot of potential, upside, yada, yada, yada...well guess what, SO DOES MASON!! And he's played at the NHL level, and played well--just not lately.

Guess how many goalies have won the Calder in the last 40 years? No cheating..guess. 6. 6 in 40 years and Mason is one of them. So at one point, this guy was the next Bobrovksy or the next Ben Bishop. Granted there's no guarantee he can get back to that level, but he is LIGHT YEARS ahead of Leighton. It gives the Flyers an option to consider, and allows for a back-up that can actually play at the NHL level and give Bryz a night off occasionally For right now, that's all he is going to be asked to do.

[brelic]

Reese is The Issue.

Didn't we say the same thing about Lemelin?

[brelic]

I don't get the hatred for the Mason trade. Would people have preferred we trade Coots, or Schenn and a pick for Ben Bishop? Bishop has played 33 NHL games. 33. Bishop has a lot of potential, upside, yada, yada, yada...well guess what, SO DOES MASON!! And he's played at the NHL level, and played well--just not lately.

Guess how many goalies have won the Calder in the last 40 years? No cheating..guess. 6. 6 in 40 years and Mason is one of them. So at one point, this guy was the next Bobrovksy or the next Ben Bishop. Granted there's no guarantee he can get back to that level, but he is LIGHT YEARS ahead of Leighton. It gives the Flyers an option to consider, and allows for a back-up that can actually play at the NHL level and give Bryz a night off occasionally For right now, that's all he is going to be asked to do.

And Mason's rookie year Calder trophy win was the last full season Hitchcock was coaching... he was fired the next season. Mason's numbers haven't recovered since.

So was Hitch's system masking a mediocre goaltender, or is the new system exposing their goalies/defense? Or maybe neither? Both?

We'll soon find out.

Also, I agree about Ben Bishop. He may or may not be good, but with 33 NHL games under his belt, Conacher was a high price to pay. Couturier would have been a crazy price too.

[Digityman]

the last full season Hitchcock was coaching... he was fired the next season. Mason's numbers haven't recovered since.

Very good point Bre.

[aziz]

<br />It gives the Flyers an option to consider, and allows for a back-up that can actually play at the NHL level and give Bryz a night off occasionally For right now, that's all he is going to be asked to do. <br />

it is going to be interesting. it'll be telling to see how he is used. if the organization is planning on ending bryzgalov's contract this summer, i'd expect mason to see the majority of the work going forward. if they are on the fence, it'll be a split, and if mason is in philly specifically as a back up, well, he'll just backup/spot start. if nothing else, Holmgren has given us something to watch that'll indicate what the team is thinking longer term.

[BearOnIce]

Didn't we say the same thing about Lemelin?

I believe you are correct! -_-

[flyercanuck]

I just don't get knocking a goalie with an .899 save percentage brought in as a backup when your starter has the exact same save percentage and makes double.

You want to knock Homer for signing Bryz and trading Bob, I'm driving the bus. But don't complain about equally mediocre goaltenders when you're comparing one against the other.

[AndyS]

Thank you Paul Holmgren, resident comedian - the jokes keep coming.

Are we to believe that the Flyers are going to amnesty Bryz's contract for Mason. Really???????? For all of Bryz's warts, he has been one of the few bright spots; and, I daresay, if he wasn't forced to play EVERY game, his stats and play would have been even better (but, when the resident comedian doesnt have a legitimate backup on the team...)

Has anyone in the Flyers personnel department (and I use that term loosely) seen how badly Mason has played the last 4 years? Since his roookie season, his save percentage of .899 ranks 39 out of 39 for goalies who have played at least 100 games. Terrible! And, this is the guy that Reese "believes in" and this is the guy who is going to replace Bryz. Hysterical. Then again, why was I dumb enough to think that our resident comedian could judge goaltending talent: he traded Bob and cut Ericksson,

Seriously, the laughs keep coming. As long as this idiot is making personnel decisions, we will be without the Cup.

FIRE HOLMGREN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You make a valid point.

But my guess is that the Flyers want to see what they can do with Mason (Reese apparently sees something in him), and make a trade for Bernier in the offseason.

That would (in my opinion) actually upgrade our goaltending, while also freeing up cap space.

Briere & Bryz will be bough out this offseason.

The only ways that Bryz stays past this season would be:

1. The Flyers make a really deep playoff run & he plays a big part of it.

2. The Flyers are unable to acquire Bernier (or someone like him).

Wouldn't shock me if Homer & Lombardi had already talked about making a deal after the playoffs are over.

[AndyS]

it is going to be interesting. it'll be telling to see how he is used. if the organization is planning on ending bryzgalov's contract this summer, i'd expect mason to see the majority of the work going forward. if they are on the fence, it'll be a split, and if mason is in philly specifically as a back up, well, he'll just backup/spot start. if nothing else, Holmgren has given us something to watch that'll indicate what the team is thinking longer term.

My guess is that Bryz gets about 2 out of every 3 starts.

If Mason excels & Bryz remains inconsistent, that might change.

Lavy needs to find (and play) the hot hand.

[caluso]

Who has more value?

Bryz with his .899 at $5.6M cap hit or

Mason with his .899 at $2.9M cap hit

For the same output I would rather pay less. Thus there is more value in Mason at the moment. Bryz is marginally better than Mason and he is twice as expensive. I see Mason as a backup but even in that role he is more valuable than our current starter.

I never said either would win us a cup. The organization traded away a candidate franchise goal tender to Columbus last summer. Frankly those don't grow on trees.

We finally found common ground: BOB Now, BOB had value, talent and had unlimited potential. As I said it at the time: Be patient, develop him. The way that Lavy and Gomer "developed" him was laughable (perhaps that is indicative of a bigger issue)

Unfortunately, the upper management (Snyder included) deemed BOB superfluous. And these are the same people who think that Mason - who has 4 YEARS of horrble play as a sample - is going to be a solution.

Sad.

[caluso]

I just don't get knocking a goalie with an .899 save percentage brought in as a backup when your starter has the exact same save percentage and makes double.

You want to knock Homer for signing Bryz and trading Bob, I'm driving the bus. But don't complain about equally mediocre goaltenders when you're comparing one against the other.

This year with 34 games he is at .899

Last year with 54 games he was at .909

Mason is at .899 FOR 4 YEARS!!!!!

[flyercanuck]

This year Mason is ranked 38th in the NHL in save percentage. This year, at twice the money, Bryz is ranked 37th.

I guess if that's worth twice as much to you then I don't know what else to say. If Mason stinks, they let him go and lose a 3rd. If he plays well, we may save the equivalent of his salary from Bryzgalov. If he plays OK, we got a legitimate backup instead of Leighton.

[murraycraven]

Good read by meltzer;

Usually a central team in trade deadline rumors, the Philadelphia Flyers were something of an afterthought this year in what has been a down season for the club. However, the team made one intriguing move yesterday that could have a long-term impact on the club.

After finding out that the price tag on Ben Bishop was too high for their liking (hockey people I talked to afterward were shocked the Lightning were willing to part with Cory Conacher for the undeniably talented but still unproven as a long-term NHL starter 26-year-old Bishop), the Flyers turned their attention to Columbus' Steve Mason. A deal was consummated sending little-used backup Michael Leighton and a 2015 third-round pick in exchange for the 24-year-old Mason.

Mason, of course, has struggled ever since his Calder Trophy winning rookie season of 2008-09. This season, he's been displaced as the Blue Jackets' primary starter by former Flyers' goalie Sergei Bobrovsky. Nevertheless, there are some scouts in the NHL who feel that Mason will eventually put the pieces together again and become a top-notch NHL starter.

As a matter of fact, Philadelphia has quietly been in pursuit of Mason on an off-and-on basis for quite a few years. The Flyers kicked tires on him as early as his sophomore slump season in 2010-11, and had varying degrees of interest in the years that followed. As a matter of fact, before the team traded for the rights to Ilya Bryzgalov and signed him to a nine-year deal, trading for Mason was one of the lower-cost alternatives the team considered early in the process.

Back on Feb. 1 of this year, I wrote a blog on three reduced-cost but potential high yield trade candidates. Mason was one of the players, along with Keaton Ellerby (then with Florida, now a regular starter with the Los Angeles Kings) and Magnus Paajarvi (still with Edmonton, and has raised his stock).

Mason never really got his game back in Columbus, but keep in mind that he is still of the age at which goalies go through their NHL learning curve. His stellar rookie year raised expectations to an unrealistic level, and then he lost confidence when the league got a book on him and he struggled to adjust. Even so, he is still a goalie with a high ceiling.

A restricted free agent after this season who is making $3.2 million in actual salary and $2.9 million in terms of cap hit, Mason is likely to sign a multi-year extension with Philadelphia before the end of the season in exchange for a somewhat lower cap hit. The bigger question: Does this guarantee a buyout of Bryzgalov?

To be honest, I thought that was coming anyway. The best assessment of Bryzgalov's play this season is that he hasn't really been part of the problem, but really hasn't shown himself to be part of the solution, either. Given his contract, that's not good enough.

Bryzgalov got off to a great start this season but then succumbed to the Flyers' mediocre team defense and his own penchant for allowing one questionable-to-soft goal per game. He's not always the most popular of players in his own locker room, but teammates' tolerance levels for less-than-beloved goalies go hand in hand with whether the team is winning.

Of course, Mason is an even bigger question mark in goal than Bryzgalov. Regardless of what Mason does in the starts he gets over the remainder of the current season, I doubt the Flyers will feel comfortable going into next season with him as the appointed starter. Instead, I suspect the Flyers will bring in another lower cost option -- possibly another young goalie, possibly a UFA veteran with recent starting experience -- and go back to a goaltending rotation system.

The Flyers are among the teams that have had some interest in Vancouver's Roberto Luongo, which of course would change the entire dynamic back to an undisputed number one goalie. However, I don't think Philadelphia will ultimately go in that direction. I think they will press onward with the Mason reclamation project and bring in another moderately priced goaltender in the offseason.

Then again, goaltending plans -- especially where the Philadelphia Flyers are concerned -- can easily change in a hurry.

[yave1964]

Mason has needed a change of scenery for quite some time. Perhaps he can salvage a career with the right team.

I don't think the Flyers are the right club, Philly is a hotbed of hockey, a real pressure cooker. People breathe hockey 24/7 365, Mason couldn't handle the pressure in Columbus where Hockey is an afterthought to Buckeye football.

Mason would probably have a chance at a career with the Panthers or some other irrelevant club.

[OccamsRazor]

@caluso

My point was you were complaining about Masons .899 save percentage when Bryzarros is exactly the same.

I could get use to this!!!!!

or this....

or maybe this...

Edited April 5, 2013 by OccamsRazor

[aziz]

mason and bryzgalov have a similarity in that they are super-susceptible to extended losses of focus. the biggest difference is that underneath the fragile mental state, mason is a technically strong goalie. the fundamentals are more than there. he just has that tendency to go off the rails. if someone can put him in a spot to rebuild his confidence, I think he has a chance of salvaging his career. whether the flyers are the team to do that is, well, open to debate, we'll say.

which, I take over bryzgalov, who is a technical disaster and a complete headcase.