You're Paul Holmgren...

[ZeZel25]

The season ends, you miss the playoffs... What 3 moves are first on your agenda? Buyout? Trades?

For me all I want right now is too revamp this pathetic defense. I don't want Simmonds or Rinaldo fighting all the time next year either. Rinaldo proved this year he's valuable ON THE ICE in a checking role so get somebody other than Shelley to do it. Don't care if it's Orr, McGrattan or whoever.

[AlaskaFlyerFan]

I would get a heavyweight like Tom Sestito.

[ctid]

1. Fire Lavy (like him, but we need a different system than the gung-ho we've been seeing)

this team will be so much more consistent if we played with a more solid, stable, reliable system and not the all-out-attack all the time

2. Trade Briere, Mesz, get rid off Lilja, Foster, get in stop gaps for the D, reliable guys like a Boychuck (not saying him, but guys like that)

3. Get some more scouts in the system that only focuses on scouting D-men and Goalies. All the other scouts can continue doing what they are doing, but these new scouts sole purpose is to scout D-man/Goalies

[sekkes85]

I don't think what this team is missing is a goon. That type of player is a waste of a contract and a dying breed in the NHL. While I agree I'd rather have Simmonds/Rinaldo on the ice if they pick their fights wisely I'm happy with taking one of the other teams energy/skill players off the ice as well.

In terms of revamping the defense as it stands right now our top 5 dmen are signed for next year (Timo, Coburn, Meszaros, Grossman, Schenn) and all but Timo/Meszaros beyond next year. Coburn and Meszaros are 28/27 respectively and SHOULD be getting into their prime. Unfortunately Coburn we just haven't seen all the hope and promise he showed early on and Meszaros just can't stay healthy. They would be my two prime candidates to get shipped off but I'm not really sure what you would get in return selling low and more importantly, who to bring in that would actually be an improvement?

http://capgeek.com/ufa-finder/?position_id=D

There aren't a whole lot of names on there that say we have to get this guy, he will be the difference maker. Some good players for sure, but most of them are aging and I really don't want to see a defensive core full of has been players. I honestly want to throw away the season and forget it never happened and see what this squad can do next year with some minor tweaks. The defense shouldn't be THIS bad, looking at anyone of those 5 defenseman and you don't think "oh wow this guy is terrible". They just aren't geling and are playing way too inconsistent for anyone's liking. However being as we are the Flyers are we have an impatient owner, GM, and fan base. I expect a major overhaul

[ZeZel25]

I would get a heavyweight like Tom Sestito.

I liked Sestito but he wasnt a true heavyweight.

[ZeZel25]

I don't think what this team is missing is a goon. That type of player is a waste of a contract and a dying breed in the NHL. While I agree I'd rather have Simmonds/Rinaldo on the ice if they pick their fights wisely I'm happy with taking one of the other teams energy/skill players off the ice as well.

In terms of revamping the defense as it stands right now our top 5 dmen are signed for next year (Timo, Coburn, Meszaros, Grossman, Schenn) and all but Timo/Meszaros beyond next year. Coburn and Meszaros are 28/27 respectively and SHOULD be getting into their prime. Unfortunately Coburn we just haven't seen all the hope and promise he showed early on and Meszaros just can't stay healthy. They would be my two prime candidates to get shipped off but I'm not really sure what you would get in return selling low and more importantly, who to bring in that would actually be an improvement?

http://capgeek.com/u.../?position_id=D

There aren't a whole lot of names on there that say we have to get this guy, he will be the difference maker. Some good players for sure, but most of them are aging and I really don't want to see a defensive core full of has been players. I honestly want to throw away the season and forget it never happened and see what this squad can do next year with some minor tweaks. The defense shouldn't be THIS bad, looking at anyone of those 5 defenseman and you don't think "oh wow this guy is terrible". They just aren't geling and are playing way too inconsistent for anyone's liking. However being as we are the Flyers are we have an impatient owner, GM, and fan base. I expect a major overhaul

The problem is, how many times does Simmonds and Rinaldo take off a skilled player? Not too often, it's mostly someone sent too get them off of the ice that wont be missed.

[Mad Dog]

Defense takes priority, obviously. But I don't know how much can be done in just one off-season to imrprove what we have... This defense is beyond bad. It's an AHL-caliber or actually even worse. It's almost at the point where you have to find replacement for all 6 defensemen.

And I am not sure who would come to this team at this point. If I am a free agent and I know I have my options, is Phildelphia my #1 choice?

This summer will be painful, I am afraid. The best that works for the Flyers is the upcoming draft. Drfat a future stud, get rid of expensive detrimental contracts at whatever cost, get prospects and young players in return and build from there. This would be a long and agonizing process for many Flyers faithful who are used to see this team in a position to compete for the Cup just about every year, but unfrotunately Holmgren put this team in a spot where it's impossible to do a quick fix and retool. This won't be an easy fix by any measures.

[brelic]

The reality is that we have the following guys under contract for next year:

Timo/Schenn

Coburn/Meszaros

Grossman

Unless you *trade* one of those guys, that's your top 5 right there. If they qualify Gus, there's your top 6. And I don't exactly trust Homer to be trading away defensemen to somehow make it better.

One of our problems is that we keep turning over the roster. Those 5 guys are actually all decent defensemen. But there's something about the way that we play that has them looking like a bunch of lost souls. If we draft in the top 5, then we can pickup Nurse, and see if he can make the squad out of training camp.

In goal, we'll have Bryz and whatever scrub they can manage to find. Maybe they can convince Esche to come back. I really don't think they'll buy out Bryz after this season.

As for Briere, he may be the most urgent buyout candidate. He contributes absolutely nothing to this team when he is not scoring. If he won't accept a trade (doesn't help that he's injured), then buyout is the logical thing to do. I would prefer to re-sign Gagne for about $2.5M and have him on the 3rd line. He's still a solid two-way player and relatively young.

The last thing I want to see with this team is a major overhaul. We keep doing those over and over and over, and then they never give it time (read: years) it takes to have a team gel and find the right chemistry, roles, etc.

[flyercanuck]

@Mad Dog

The Flyers do have an abundance of young talented forwards. There are a lot of teams in the league who wish they had the likes of Giroux, Simmonds Voracek, Schenn, Read, Couturier all under 25. So we have that going for us. Of course the issue is a Flyers management team who doesn't have a clue how to bring in and develop goaltending and defence.

I agree about not taking one season to fix this. That's the way that's never worked. Get a freaking plan together and stick with it. Don't look at the 3 most expensive UFAs and say "There's the plan".

I disagree with getting rid of expensive contracts "at whatever cost". GETTING picks and prospects for them is fine. Giving them away with them is stupid. Holmgren has got to stop handing out draft picks. It's ridiculous and it has been all along.

[flyercanuck]

Brelic

Laviolettes system has either got to change or go. You aren't winning with this all offence bs. Look at the Pens with the two most elite offensive players in the league. They HAD to change cause they got embarrassed last year. They thought they could outscore anyone, but it doesn't work in the playoffs. Laviolette got lucky in Carolina with a red hot goalie. Bryz has a tough enough time focussing on one game, let alone a series or an entire playoff run.

I totally agree with stopping the yearly player exchange program.

Edited March 31, 2013 by flyercanuck

[aziz]

1. Buyouts for briere and bryzgalov

2. Bring in a mid-grade FA goalie and start making decisions about goalies in the system. Is there any chance heeter is worth looking? If not, start looking to reloading the prospect pool, goalies are a roll of the dice, and that being the case, the more rolls you have the better.

3. Same thing, really, with defensemen. There is no FA savoir out there, and the flyers don't have the assets for trade without compromising other parts of the roster. Giving prospects on the reserve list livefire auditions seems like the only thing to do.

Upside, offensively the team just needs experience. Downside, goaltending and the blueline are pretty well broken with no quick fixes available. If I'm GM, I c calm down and use the next season or two to figure out where exactly the team is.

[pilldoc]

Not an easy task by no means. Pretty much agree with everything @Mad Daog and @brelic have said. Can't add much more than that.

1. Buyout / Trade Briere (just too expensive to keep aroung now)

2. Look to see what it would take to pry Bernier away from LA. If too expensive and requires us parting with one of the young core guys then hold off for now. Look for a quality back-up. Agree with @Aziz possibly buyout Bryz and find a mid range FA goalie.

3. Sit down with Giroux and review what type of year he had both as a player and as captain and make adjustments accordingly. Then as someone posted in another thread have Giroux meet with every player and set up some type of off season work out schedule and do it together and make it know to them what is expected both on and off the ice. This is his team now...time to starting being a bit more vocal.

3a. Dump the useless contracts/players..aka Walker / Shelley / Lilja / Foster / Gervais

Edited March 31, 2013 by pilldoc

[RonJeremy]

Buy out Bryz and Briere, I dont see anyone trading for either..

Release Lilja, Foster, Fedetnenko, Walker, Leighton and Bobby Boucher

Only re-sign Gagne if its for a low contract

Sign a goalie like Emery and a back up goalie as well, Bryz is not any better than Emery ,esp for 5 million a year.

Trade Coots plus something else for a defenseman like Yandle

Lose as many games as possible and draft a stud dman with the first or second pick.

Laughton replaces Coots

The rapist prospect steps in to replace Fedetenko, sorry forgot his name

Lauredson hopefully becomes our 6th dman, Gervais is kept as the 7th

Coburn, Schenn, Timmo, our first pick and the guy we traded Coots for are the defense.

We let Mez play early next season to prove he is Ok and after 15 games we trade him for a pick or a prospect before he gets hurt again

[RonJeremy]

sorry forgot Grossman....

[pilldoc]

Trade Coots plus something else for a defenseman like Yandle

Laughton replaces Coots

The rapist prospect steps in to replace Fedetenko, sorry forgot his name

Nick Cousins is who you are thinking about.

IMO I don't think Coots has the value yet to land a Yandle type player. Don't get me wrong....Yandle would look good in O&B, I just don't think Coots alone can pry that type of player from any team.

Edited March 31, 2013 by pilldoc

[toughfighter83]

how is anyone confident about homer making changes to this team? i dont want to hear he want all out to get this guy or that guy last offseason, they were better players out there or he could have just signed jagr instead of losing out, he knew zach p or sutter wouldnt come here, it was writing on the wall, he should have backed out.

he'll probably turn into andy reid and keep the same players and leave the backup goaltending position a big hole, i want a new gm in here that can get rid of the big contracts and fill the big holes, i want someone that knows what he's doing, everyone that has their dream roster is not going to happen with homer, he doesnt know what he's doing, i mean what is it exactly that you trust about him? he gutted the 2010 cup roster, pronger injury is no excuse either, he had defensemen to draft and he passed on them even in 08 draft, he wont do it in this year's draft.

[Mad Dog]

@Mad Dog

I disagree with getting rid of expensive contracts "at whatever cost". GETTING picks and prospects for them is fine. Giving them away with them is stupid. Holmgren has got to stop handing out draft picks. It's ridiculous and it has been all along.

Well, I understand that, but it sounds nice and good when theorizing it, but in reality this may not be what will happen. Do you want to keep Briere? I sure don't. Like Bre said, he contributes nothing if he is not scoring. I am sure Holmgren will try to get the most equitable compensation for him. BUt what are the chances that he will get for him exactly what he wants? If he doesn't agree to waive his NMC, what are the options? Do you want the team to carry his contract into the next season knowing the guy contributes zero and brings nothing but his devastating contract that hamstrings the team? I don't. There are better ways to use that cap space.

Iginla waved his NMC, but I don't see much of that happening in the NHL... So the Flyers may have no choice but to buy him out. That's what I meant by saying get rid of these stupid contracts at whatevcer costs. I know it's ridiculous. Holmgren first creates these problems himslef and then try to find a way out of them... Only there is never an easy way out.

Bryzgalov is not going anywhere. He is ours. Like it or not, but he is here. For one, we have aboslutely nothing in the system that even remotely resembles good goaltending. And I actually think with a decent blue line and the coach who believes there is more to the game than a go-go and reckless abandon, Bryzgalov can actually be effective. Again, not ideal, but we are stuck with him, so Holmgren just needs ot channel his energy to make it work rather than sink in futility trying to get rid of Bryzgalov.

Edited March 31, 2013 by Mad Dog

[Mad Dog]

If I'm GM, I c calm down and use the next season or two to figure out where exactly the team is.

Problem is, this plan is not in line with an operating philosophy or culture of this ownership. They will always..... ALWAYS go for a quick fix - even if there isn't one - convincing themsleves their obligaiton to the fanbase is to be as competative as they can to bring the Cup.

After almost 40 years of trying the same thing over and over and over and over again, one would think people learned how NOT to do things. Alas, the Flyers don't learn. It's just not in their DNA. I can almost predict exactly what will happen after this season is over. I almost want to burst in laughter, except it's not funny.

[doom88]

1) trade/buyout Briere

2) hire more D/G scouts and possibly a new D position coach (fire Stevens, hire Hatcher?)

3) leave the defensive core alone (Timo, Schenn, Coburn, Grossmann, Mesz, Gus). The guys need to play together with a real preparatory offseason. Chemistry is enhanced through years of playing together. Turnover isn't the answer here, patience and coaching is.

[aziz]

@maddog

In concept, you're right. In practice....I don't know. The flyers don't have the extra assets to actually do anything like that. No sbisa laying around.... and no pronger out there to be taken. Even with their worst intentions, I don't know that the option for a quick fix is really available. This summer, anyway.

[DaGreatGazoo]

@maddog

In concept, you're right. In practice....I don't know. The flyers don't have the extra assets to actually do anything like that. No sbisa laying around.... and no pronger out there to be taken. Even with their worst intentions, I don't know that the option for a quick fix is really available. This summer, anyway.

Agree, Aziz..I posted in the Snider comments thread, that I think they keep Bryz next year, and the following year buy him out if he isn't cutting it. Kimmo and Mez are off the books then, and that's $14-15 million right there...much better UFA class the following summer. Again, assuming Homer doesn't do something stupid this summer....

[Mad Dog]

In concept, you're right. In practice....I don't know. The flyers don't have the extra assets to actually do anything like that. No sbisa laying around.... and no pronger out there to be taken. Even with their worst intentions, I don't know that the option for a quick fix is really available. This summer, anyway.

You may've misunderstood me, I think. *I* am not advocating a quick fix. But the Flyers always operate in a quick-fix mindset.

I agree they are not well-equipped with this roster to be able to retool, patch up a few holes, and move forward. And despite what other posters on this board think, I am of an opinion this team has some fundemental issues with their roster. I think this defense, in particular, is not fine. Maybe with a coach like Dave Tippets or Peter DeBoer, this defense could play in a totally different mode and produce different results, but with this coach - and assuming the Flyers are not making changes behind the bench - I am afraid what we see is what we get.

But I just don't see this management taking an approach of a rebuild, which I would personally prefer as I think it's the only meaningful route to take considering the position the Flyers found themselves in.

[canoli]

well since you guys already did the thinking I'll just agree with a few things and add a little twist to my #1 priority:

Priority ONE - Fire Laviolette or Buy-out Bryzgalov, has to be one or the other. Lavy's game plan relies on a polished defense and solid goaltending where rebound control seems particularly important. In Lavy's style the D is on its heels a lot; dedicated backchecking helps but winning puck-possession is damn near impossible to fit into the game-plan when your goalie is spraying rebounds all over the place. I realize controlling rebounds isn't a skill so much as it is the mark of a good goaltender and Bryzgalov doesn't have it. Besides that he's weak on the odd-mans and 1-on-1. He's a disaster waiting to happen in Lavy's style of play.

So that's my #1 - figure out if you're changing coaches (i.e. "the system") or changing goaltenders. Nothing good happens until that's decided. If Lavy stays Bryzgalov should go.

Second - has to be Briere. Whatever it takes to free up his $6.5 million cap hit will be a good thing. I know he's valuable in the POs but we all seem to be saying (screaming!), "Forget the POs, Focus on the longer term" and I agree.

Briere has to go.

Three - #3 depends on what you did in #1. If Lavy is still HC then we need 2 goalies (Leighton is gone). We can't go too wrong replacing Bryzgalov imo. I'd love to get Emery back, to me he's a winner regardless what his numbers say. But any change will be an improvement I think. I wonder what it'd take to get Bob back. If we need a new HC ... well that's a different topic I guess but anyone besides Lindy works for me.

Look in-house first for all the positions. Lauridsen was a nice surprise (to me) yesterday. Are there more up in Adirondack? Is Heeter serviceable? I hope we get some idea in these last few weeks.

[jammer2]

@RonJeremy Ya know, the more I see of Cousins in the OHL playoffs, the more I have hope he's a legit NHL prospect. I don't think the skating will be an issue, and that was my big question all along....so good news on that front. ....OR maybe Owen Sound is just slow and he can't make the jump, but my feeling is he can skate in the NHL.

[jammer2]

First thing Homer and Snider (unfortunatly with the latter) have to figure out is, how much of a rebulid is going to go on, how serious about it are they? If it's a lame, "we have to reload, and get back to the playoffs immediately" kinda thing, well that involves Free Agency to fill the needs, AND overpaying....if they take this road, there is no use talking bout any of the other stuff.....AND, this specific decison will decide the fate of Coburn, Mez etc....