aziz Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Those are two instances of gross embellishment. BUT they're also both instances in which Carcillo (who is no longer a Flyer the last time I checked) had actually been penalized. In both cases I think the correct call was made as he was legitimately cross checked, but the high stick (while technically illegal) was really a no harm no foul type situation.good lord, homers. the "high stick" literally didn't even touch carcillo. it was entirely fictionalized. he embellished a stick in the air into being shot in the face with a shotgun. it is *exactly* what you were talking about. except now, when it is a flyers crest on the oscar nominee, you start splitting hairs and shifting around making excuses. and pretending there were reasons other than the guy wanting to abuse the rules and take advantage of the refs to draw a penalty. which was what carcillo did.rinaldo is getting good at doing the same. the new and improved and doesn't take so many penalities rinaldo has added the easy collapse to his skill set. he has drawn several penalties this season with the pushing and shoving match and suddenly he's on the ice. it's a thing. it happens. every team does it, for good or ill. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Every team does it but I'm sorry, it's not a systematic institution at every team. It's not part of every team's overall strategy. If the Devils get a lead, they switch to shut down mode and they're really tough to beat because shut down neutral zone hockey is their strength. That's simply what they do. It's how they win.If the Penguins fall behind, they manufacture penalties against the other team by creating high sticks and hooks out of thin air and they score on the power play because the power play is their strength. That's simply what they do. It's how they win.I'll say this, at least both those teams found something that works for them. Something that plays to their strengths. Not many teams in the league are able to do that (i.e. win the same way year in and year out) with such consistency.The point is, every team gets away with embellishments, and every team gets away with holding the stick, and every team gets away with cheap shots here and there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aziz Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 We're not talking about a player like Dan Carcillo who doesn't seem to be able to control his actions at all or a player like Syd Crosby who doesn't think he should have to.no, we're talking about danny briere, who really likes to get his stick up in guys' faces and is more than a little liberal with his elbows. he has taken an excess of those calls for a decade now. really, it goes back to when he had more PIMs than games played in junior. why does he do it, why doesn't he figure out to keep his stick down? i have no idea. all i know is that he is taking the same calls at the same pace as he always has. the fact that he became a flyer didn't change anything at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Every team does it but I'm sorry, it's not a systematic institution at every team. It's not part of every team's overall strategy.If the Devils get a lead, they switch to shut down mode and they're really tough to beat because shut down neutral zone hockey is their strength. That's simply what they do. It's how they win.If the Penguins fall behind, they manufacture penalties against the other team by creating high sticks and hooks out of thin air and they score on the power play because the power play is their strength. That's simply what they do. It's how they win.I'll say this, at least both those teams found something that works for them. Something that plays to their strengths. Not many teams in the league are able to do that (i.e. win the same way year in and year out) with such consistency.Let me help you with the numbers.... the Flyers had 335 power play opportunities last season. The Pittsburgh Penguins had 289. The Philadelphia Flyers had more power play opportunities than any other team in the league, ranking first overall in opportunities, and 18 more than the next closest team, the Columbus Blue Jackets. Only three teams received over 300 opportunities. The Pittsburgh Penguins were 7th overall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aziz Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 (edited) @aziz Apparently, Shanny does not like to suspend Red Wings apparently. really, it boggles the mind, because i can't think of anyone who so flagrently launches into the face of opponents -and frequently knocks them out of games- and yet he has not been suspended one single time.honestly, i get scared when the flyers play detroit, because kronwall is to my mind the single most dangerous player in the league, and has been given the green light to be exactly that. if there is any player around likely to knock one of your team's wingers out for a week+, it's kronwall. Edited March 5, 2013 by aziz 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 I think I covered it a few weeks ago, when I said something to the effect of "if you are on the ice with the puck and Kronwall is on the ice at the same time, you owe to yourself and your loved ones to keep your head on a swivel". He can end our career in a nano-second. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Wow, you're really good at eluding the point. There really is no point in trying to talk to you, you really have a bee in your bonnet about this and you're refusing to read what I'm writing so I'm going to nip this in the bud and say good day. it is *exactly* what you were talking about. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aziz Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 exactly. i love it, by the way, the guy is a scarey beast without being a hulking neandrathal. a -for kronwall trade by the flyers would make me happy. so long as he is the opposition, though, he's terrifying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aziz Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Wow, you're really good at eluding the point.There really is no point in trying to talk to you, you really have a bee in your bonnet about this and you're refusing to read what I'm writing so I'm going to nip this in the bud and say good day.may as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 @King KnutWhat? NO rebuttal for my stats post? LOL So are the Penguins an institution of diving or do they draw a lot of penalties because they have two maybe three of the most skilled players in the world at their positions and bust their butts to try to score goals??? And the Flyers get the most power play opportunities because.. well.. just because? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TedZep Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 except, of course, that briere's highest PIM total came while he was in buffalo. but, you know, whatever. facts and all that.Briere said it, I repeated it. Besides, Briere averaged less than 67 PIMs per full season as a Coyote & Sabre compared to over 79 per full season as a Flyer. 89 pims in 81 games as a Sabre is vs. 87 pims in only 77 games as a Flyer. So, yeah, facts and all that, you cherry picker you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaGreatGazoo Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Let me help you with the numbers.... the Flyers had 335 power play opportunities last season. The Pittsburgh Penguins had 289. The Philadelphia Flyers had more power play opportunities than any other team in the league, ranking first overall in opportunities, and 18 more than the next closest team, the Columbus Blue Jackets. Only three teams received over 300 opportunities. The Pittsburgh Penguins were 7th overall.Screw your numbers and your logical argument! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canoli Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 the Flyers had 335 power play opportunities last season. The Pittsburgh Penguins had 289.So? What does that mean? That the Flyers got more PPs than the Penguins last season [supposedly]?jeez... some people ... really know how to twist the facts ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Briere said it, I repeated it. Besides, Briere averaged less than 67 PIMs per full season as a Coyote & Sabre compared to over 79 per full season as a Flyer. 89 pims in 81 games as a Sabre is vs. 87 pims in only 77 games as a Flyer. So, yeah, facts and all that, you cherry picker you.Flyers got 18 more power plays than any other team in the league. 335 opportunities. They were shorthanded a league leading 319 times... so they get the most and the give the most. SOunds like a team that plays on the edge physically and gets slightly favored in the power play marks. Flyers are PLUS 16 power plays vs penalty kills... yet you think you're slighted against. Power play to penalty kill differentials: Ottawa = MINUS 40Dallas = MINUS 69 Edmonton = MINUS 34Winnipeg = MINUS 41Colorado = MINUS 54Yeah.. the officials are clearly out to get the Flyers... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B21 Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 @Polaris922So yeah - I think 4 games was fair for Harry Z.PS - feel free to remind Ted that Briere's PIM per game increased every year from 01-02 (.667) to 06-07 (1.099). That was his last year in Buffalo. After being traded to the Flyers, his PIM per game (from 07-08 to this year) is .861, .897, .947, 1.129, .986 and .316. All but one lower than those last two seasons in Buffalo.Wow. I guess Ted is right. There is that one single solitary season that is .03 PIM per game higher than his last two seasons in Buffalo. Oh the bias! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aziz Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 sides, Briere averaged less than 67 PIMs per full season as a Coyote & Sabre compared to over 79 per full season as a Flyer.drop those seasons as a coyote, and just look at his time in buffalo. he was a good boy in pheonix, for whatever reason. right at a penalty minute per game as a sabre. 219 PIMs in 225 games. .973 PIM/game in buffalo. 327 PIMs as a flyer in 349 games, .936 PIMs/game. hey, look at that. he gets called *less* as a flyer. good lord but the league must be out to get the sabres, huh?are you scratching your tin foil hat at how that could possibly be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunatic Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Harry Z is still stuck on stupid.Rinaldo is showing what a credible pest is good at - drawing players like Alfredsson into stupid penalties.Z is far too much on the Carcillo side of the "stupid" equation - forcing his teammates to kill off a major and then play shorthanded for the rest of the game.Guy certainly has heart and courage, but is sorely in need of brain.Really interesting since he graduate from Brown @ a 3.6 GPA in Econ. Just goes to show that there are different types of intelligence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskaFlyerFan Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 drop those seasons as a coyote, and just look at his time in buffalo. he was a good boy in pheonix, for whatever reason. There's a simple explanation. Nobody was going to the Phoenix games back then, not even the refs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doom88 Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 except, of course, that briere's highest PIM total came while he was in buffalo. but, you know, whatever. facts and all that.Yes, but 15 of 89 came in one game. Kind of an outlier?I also think he adapted in Philly a little. He isn't the moron he was in Buf with the stick anymore, though he's no saint either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doom88 Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 I'm not sure all refs have a neg bias against Philly, but I would agree a few do. I think the real problem is with ref management at the league level and the department of made up discipline. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OH1FlyersFan Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 I hate the officiating in this league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 I'm not sure all refs have a neg bias against Philly, but I would agree a few do. I think the real problem is with ref management at the league level and the department of made up discipline.Every team has a few refs that seem to hate them. I know for years I cursed when I saw McCreary, Fraser, or Devorski working our games! I don't know if there was any fact or numbers to support the feeling, but it's how we felt! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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