jammer2 Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 @Bertmega This is pretty much the spot JVR was in, supposed to be in the top 6 skill wise, but never got the chance to play there due to the numbers game. If they don't ditch Danny B, Coots will be miscast again next year, which kinda makes me lean towards buying Danny out should they not deal him at the deadline (NMC, of course, comes into play also). They would be stuning his growth and potential by making him a 3rd line center again next year....AND possibley messing up Laughton's spot in the 3rd line, which he seemed more than suited for during his brief stint....so something has to give. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 (edited) Well i agree with this guy....My rule of thumb when it comes to pre-NHL production is that offensive dominance at lower levels is far from a guarantee of high-level NHL offensive production, but the LACK of true offensive dominance at the lower levels is usually a pretty good indication that the player will not become a year-in-and-year-old offensive force in the NHL.O'Reilly was never as much as a point-per-game player in the OHL, and never scored 20 goals in junior hockey. He gave little indication in his first two NHL seasons of developing into more than an outstanding third-line player with above-average offensive ability for that role. Even in his "breakout" year last year, O'Reilly's 55-point production was nothing all that special when you consider how much ice time he was logging in offense-friendly as well as defensive situations.In terms of his future offensive upside, I don't think O'Reilly is ever going to produce much more than he did a year ago. Could he bump up his points in a given year to perhaps 65 points in a career season? Maybe, may not. But I see him as an Umberger level offensive talent, who is a little better playmaker but a slightly lesser finisher. With both guys, I think what you saw in the early years offensively will also be what you get in the prime. Edited February 19, 2013 by OccamsRazor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertmega Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 @jammer2Agreed Danny B was very good and still is, but with the plethora of young and talented centers, I feel he may be dealt for a pick or cap space. Could you imagine if Holmgren pulls off another move like he did by unloading Fopa at the deadline back in 07? Could be possible..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 @Bertmega This is pretty much the spot JVR was in, supposed to be in the top 6 skill wise, but never got the chance to play there due to the numbers game. If they don't ditch Danny B, Coots will be miscast again next year, which kinda makes me lean towards buying Danny out should they not deal him at the deadline (NMC, of course, comes into play also). They would be stuning his growth and potential by making him a 3rd line center again next year....AND possibley messing up Laughton's spot in the 3rd line, which he seemed more than suited for during his brief stint....so something has to give.Something will have to give. Even if Briere is moved, that still leaves you with Giroux, Schenn, and SC as your top three centers. I don't think any of them are suited to be 3rd liners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 LOL, have you seen what the Avs are asking for O'Reilly????Couturier, a 1st/2nd round pick, and a prospect. They're out of their 1.6 km-high minds.They've offered him Duchene money ($3.5M per year), and he wants $5M. As an RFA, you have no real leverage. Take the money for two years, and then try the open market as a UFA. I just don't get these holdout players. Subban was the same. The only reason I'd entertain a trade for him is because we really have a weakness at defense.On Hotstove, Elliot Friedman was saying that the Avs approached the Rangers, and wanted Del Zotto, another roster player, a draft pick, and a prospect, at which point the Rangers probably used two very choice words to make them go away.Seriously... O'Reilly has proven nothing. He had one very good season.I'd trade Coots in a package for a stud defenseman or a (potential) franchise/#1 goalie. But for O'Reilly? Unless they replace the name O'Reilly with Landeskog, I hope Homer tells them to go pound whatever it is they have in Colorado instead of sand. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 @brelic - it seems both sides are asking for the sky. If the Avs think he's worth what they're asking for him in trade, then why don't they just sign him? And like you said, he had one good year and now he wants $5 million? Giroux gets $3.75 million and no way is O'Reilly == Giroux. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 @brelic - it seems both sides are asking for the sky. If the Avs think he's worth what they're asking for him in trade, then why don't they just sign him? And like you said, he had one good year and now he wants $5 million? Giroux gets $3.75 million and no way is O'Reilly == Giroux.Bingo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertmega Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 @brelicIf that's their asking price for O'Reilly, than where would Matt Read be valued? Insanity for what there asking for the kid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 @Bertmega Wow, did not know the asking price was that high, outrageous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertmega Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 @jammer2To me Couturier, a 1st/2nd round pick, and a prospect = Shea Webber not Ryan O'Reilly. In any case, the guy is an RFA with only his rights owned. He has no leverage in my books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pensuck Posted February 19, 2013 Author Share Posted February 19, 2013 On hockey buzz Meltzer has an entire breakdown of a Coots for O'Reilly trade. Its very good. There's nothing mentioned about the Avs wanting anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertmega Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colorado_al Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Fix the defense and the rest will take care of itself.Amen, we need a D that is smart, hard and hits. Sometimes I think our forwards hit harder than our D does. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Sometimes I think our forwards hit harder than our D does.My 13 year old daughter hits harder than our D does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pensuck Posted February 20, 2013 Author Share Posted February 20, 2013 Grossman and schenn have had some very good hits Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 The Flyers had a promising young scoring winger. Signed for long term and cheaper than O'Reilly.He's now Luke Schenn.I would trade Couturier for the right deal.O'Reilly's not it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 This is starting to look like a Lindros situation, Brian O'Reilly (Ryan's father) sent an email to a Denver Post writer with permission to print it:http://blogs.denverpost.com/avs/2013/02/19/ryan-oreillys-father-opens-up-on-his-sons-situation-with-avalanche/12635/Apart from the whole meddling parent thing, there's the unusual grammar... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post jackhole Posted February 20, 2013 Popular Post Share Posted February 20, 2013 But is his potential really that much greater than a guy like Ryan O'Reilly?Perhaps, but you have to consider 'value'. This kid wants a big contract already, and you still have Coots with a year and a half on his entry level deal, which while playing a defensive role, will not produce points and will not lead to a high $$ deal after the ELC. Why spend the money?No way you trade him unless we are talking franchise defensman. Christ, every year we treat the rookies on this team like they're frikkin' Gretzky, and then by their second year we are ready to ship them out because 'they didn't reach their potential.' Then by their 4th year we bitch about what a horrible trade it turned out to be as they're ripping it up on some other team! Show some G.D. patience. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 @radoran I should edit the post earlier in the thread to say "brought around to this way to of thinking by the pure, unrelenting logic of rad"....ha ha. You are so damn logical at times, I feel the need to call you Spock....LOL! Not only logical, but you back it up with excellent examples. Half the time when we disagree, you talk me into your way of thinking within a few posts....a gift I guess. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 @JackStraw "Brian O'Reilly (Ryan's father) sent an email to a Denver Post writer with permission to print it:" DANGER, DANGER Will Robinson!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 @JackStraw "Brian O'Reilly (Ryan's father) sent an email to a Denver Post writer with permission to print it:"DANGER, DANGER Will Robinson!!!Been there, done that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doom88 Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Grossman and schenn have had some very good hitsYep, true. Coburn throws one in (without taking himself out of position) now and then too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 greater than a guy like Ryan O'ReillyWhat does O'Reilly provide that Couturier does not?? He is 22 and in his FOURTH NHL season. He has not done squat in the playoffs (unlike Couturier). His role on the Avs is completely different. After a limited games this year, you want to trade a future Ron Francis for O'Reilly? Thanks- but I will pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 This is starting to look like a Lindros situation, Brian O'Reilly (Ryan's father) sent an email to a Denver Post writer with permission to print it:http://blogs.denverp...valanche/12635/Apart from the whole meddling parent thing, there's the unusual grammar...Well there's 5 minutes I'll never get back.The irony is that Duchene seems to be the one displaying 'character' by taking a smaller payday and playing as hard as he can for the *team*, while O'Reilly, who is supposedly full of character, is holding out because he's not happy with $3.5M - a completely fair offer.I'm not sure if his dad thought that would actually help, but IMO, that hurts O'Reilly's value and reputation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Guys with "character" don't need their parents writing letters to newspapers for them.Another reason to keep O'Reilly as far away from here as possible. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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