Video 2013 Bryzgalov Evaluation Thread (Buyout or no)

[Polaris922]

@OH1FlyersFan

Just a point of note... Kovalchuk is the highest percentage scorer in shootouts in the 2011-2012 campaign at over 78.6%. He is also at 75% for career penalty shots. If he's made a weak move and Bryz missed it, fine I'd be in agreement with you. BUT... that WAS a pretty wicked move by Kovalchuk to score.

I understand all of your guys' frustrations watching the start of the season. I just think it wouldn't matter if Lundqvist, Quick, or Rinne were in there right now. Your defense is porous and your forwards are lazy backchecking. Yes even Giroux looks a little at a loss sometimes coming back, though to his credit that may be frustration more than effort. As much as I hate to say this... give your boys time to come together and I think you'll be fine marching into the playoffs. The Pens fan in me hates the thought and wants you all to suffer! LOL But the hockey fan in me sees more in your team than many of you are giving them hope for.

@radoran

I agree with your posts. Well said.

@flyercanuck

I get your frustration... I really do. But you have to look at the plays and their development, the shots and how they went in. Why is Fedotenko in the crease on the second goal as a winger when nobody is even close to the slot? Maybe came in a little too deep you think? Without him there that goal doesn't go in. Without Timmonen being out of position on Kovalchuk there is no penalty shot, there is no shot at all. *shrugs* There are issues there Bryzgalov can't answer for. Should he make some big saves here and there, yes! Absolutely! But watching your games more now than ever before, I think he has made some big saves. Your games would have been far worse without his efforts.

[Polaris922]

Except that there are large numbers of players in that dressing room who agree with Thomas.

The "theory" about where things "should be" is a great one.

Practice rarely follows theory.

This I will disagree on. Personally I don't want to play with a guy who can't put his allegiance to me and the team ahead of his frustration with the management. That's not just in sports either. Where I work, your head has to be in the game, so to speak, or you get yourself or someone else killed. The smallest issue can be the largest threat at any given time. If you can't put your concern for your and my safety or success ahead of your issues with the people we work for, I don't want you. That applies to all things for me.

[Mad Dog]

I can't blame the guy for not stopping Kovy 1-on-1 - maybe the best 1-on-1 shooter in the NHL (as evidenced by his SO stats). And I can't fault him for goals scored 5 on 3 or even 5 on 4.

But see Canoli, that's Bryzgalov right there. This, what you just mentioned, exactly defines his whole career and why giving him so much money was a colossal, unforgivable error. While he rarely makes mistakes that cost teams games, he equally rarely makes game-changing saves that can turn the game around. Most often he *will* make a save people expect him to make, but in 9 out of 10 times he will not make a difficult, extraordinary, jaw dropping kind of save which would shift the momentum in the Flyers' favor. He makes saves that Bob was making. Honestly. And that's the problem.... Snider paid him like he *is* the goalie who is in that elite group who makes those jaw-dropping, impossible-to-make saves. And that's why teams which he plays on have never won anything, and never will. And that's why I want to see him gone ASAP.

[radoran]

This I will disagree on. Personally I don't want to play with a guy who can't put his allegiance to me and the team ahead of his frustration with the management. That's not just in sports either. Where I work, your head has to be in the game, so to speak, or you get yourself or someone else killed. The smallest issue can be the largest threat at any given time. If you can't put your concern for your and my safety or success ahead of your issues with the people we work for, I don't want you. That applies to all things for me.

I hear, understand and appreciate what you are saying. I'm not expressing how I "want" things to be - I am expressing how I feel they "are."

I don't think that the vast majority of players are playing for more than the numbers after the $ on their paychecks. What you need is a solid core that are, who lead and get others to follow.

I see Thomas as nothing more than a mercenary when he comes in - an, at best, two year proposition. Again, as I have said if not here than in other threads, bringing in Thomas with no additional plan is pointless.

I'm not looking to build a young team behind Thomas for the next five years. I'm looking to have a young team get a reliable goalie for a year or two. In that role, you know what you're giving and you know what you're getting.

For the record, I also don't expect the team to sign Thomas.

[canoli]

He makes saves that Bob was making. Honestly

You're "preaching to the choir" here MadDog - as you know.

Maybe not everyone was wild about Bob but I was - and still am. He looked pretty damn good against the Wings the other night - athletic, fast, smart...a few fumbles playing the puck but all in all very solid. From what I hear he had a good 1st game against Nashville.

The Flyers' brass f-ed up, plain and simple, bringing in Bryzgalov and throwing Bob under the bus.

To me it's open and shut - Buy Out Bryzgalov at the first opportunity.

[brelic]

You're "preaching to the choir" here MadDog - as you know.

Maybe not everyone was wild about Bob but I was - and still am. He looked pretty damn good against the Wings the other night - athletic, fast, smart...a few fumbles playing the puck but all in all very solid. From what I hear he had a good 1st game against Nashville.

The Flyers' brass f-ed up, plain and simple, bringing in Bryzgalov and throwing Bob under the bus.

To me it's open and shut - Buy Out Bryzgalov at the first opportunity.

I agree. We had the perfect goaltender to 'groom' and let develop with the young core. Bobrovsky had the work ethic and athleticism to bring him to the next level, but we just never gave him a chance.

Consider this: it's his 3rd NHL season, and he's only 24.

He might never reach that other level, but then again, the same could be said about Coots, Schenn, Laughton, Luke Schenn, you name it. It's all just potential, and if you never give them time to reach that potential, that's all it will ever be.

[Digityman]

Bryz pitching a shutout through the 1st period. Only 5 shots against.

[Svetlana]

@Digityman and he almost looks good. Hope it lasts.

[flyercanuck]

Hyperbole is not your friend.

A different goalie doesn't score goals. The Flyers scored zero.

Brodeur is at one end of the ice robbing the Flyers blind. At the other end Bryz finishes the period with a .333 save percentage. Trade 'tenders and, using that formula the Flyers score 6 in the 1st with that incredible feat of goaltending. I'm sure he could have easily syphoned 3 more into his net over 2 periods.

The Flyers got stoned by a great goalie and watched the same ol' Bryz give up the same ol' goals to put them behind the same ol' 8 ball. Goals like the F-E-D-O-T-E-N-K-O deflection aren't his fault. It'd be nice if they didn't always go in though.

We played last night so I didn't get to see the game. Obviously Bryz had a better outing? (along with the entire team)

[flyercanuck]

@Polaris922

When your goalie has a .333 save percentage (and it's not rare for him to have that) there's the "here we go again" thoughts creeping into your head. It has the opposite effect that a "Wow, how the heck did he ever stop THAT" save has...not that we Flyer fans know how that feels.

[brelic]

Brodeur is at one end of the ice robbing the Flyers blind. At the other end Bryz finishes the period with a .333 save percentage. Trade 'tenders and, using that formula the Flyers score 6 in the 1st with that incredible feat of goaltending. I'm sure he could have easily syphoned 3 more into his net over 2 periods.

The Flyers got stoned by a great goalie and watched the same ol' Bryz give up the same ol' goals to put them behind the same ol' 8 ball. Goals like the F-E-D-O-T-E-N-K-O deflection aren't his fault. It'd be nice if they didn't always go in though.

Brodeur wasn't robbing us blind! We got a few nice chances, but nothing that stretched Brodeur's abilities.

[flyercanuck]

@brelic

He was the games first star. C'mon, the guy made some great saves. Bryz makes nice saves too, after we're down 2 goals on 3 shots.

[brelic]

@brelic

He was the games first star. C'mon, the guy made some great saves. Bryz makes nice saves too, after we're down 2 goals on 3 shots.

Of course he was the first star... it's almost automatic when a goalie pitches a shutout. I'm just saying it wasn't like we had tons of pressure on him. His guys were always there to scoop up the rebounds or move the puck out of harm's way.

Bryz, on the other hand, had to deal with defensive brainfarts. He did make some nice saves as well to keep his team into the game, but you simply cannot blame him for the Fedotenko redirect and the Kovy PS. Maybe the Zajac goal, but again, he was left all alone.

I can't believe I'm even trying to defend Bryz! I feel dirty...

EDIT: A good comparison would be last night. Bryz got the victory and he made about 2 really nice stops, but other than that, he wasn't tested because we played a solid defensive game, just like the Devils the other night.

[Digityman]

Game # 4 - Rangers vs Flyers - 1/24/2013

The goal the Rangers scored was not Bryz fault and I doubt any NHL goalie makes that save.

He played well and kept the Flyers in it when he needed to (5 on 3 in the third period).

Bryz - 18 saves on 19 shots (.947 sv%)

Lundqvist - 31 saves on 33 shots (.939 sv%)

This was a good game by Bryz. Probably his best since March 2012.

Season Total:

Good Games: 1

Average Games: 3

Below Average Games: 0

View Game #3 Video

View Game #5 Video

[Bertmega]

He has looked competent this year, but we are only 4 games in. Maybe in June we can re-visit this thread with a little more data to work with.

[radoran]

@brelic

He was the games first star. C'mon, the guy made some great saves. Bryz makes nice saves too, after we're down 2 goals on 3 shots.

Again, you can "blame" Bryz for Zajac holding the Boy Scout Jamboree in his crease if you'd lke.

You can "blame" Bryz for Fedotenko standing in his crease to try to prevent Zajac from standing there because the D covers things about as well as a napkin on an elephant.

You can spout ".333 SV%" until you're blue in the face.

Bryz was not the reason they lost the Devils game, nor was it "his fault" that those two goals went in.

And the simple fact is that Leighton in goal does not make it 9-0 Flyers in a game where the Flyers failed to score an actual goal.

"Blame" Bryz all you want, but that won't do anything to fix the Flyers' problems.

Playing a simpler, sound positional hockey game like they did against the Rangers - including some truly HUGE stops by Bryz - will.

[Podein25]

"Blame" Bryz all you want, but that won't do anything to fix the Flyers' problems.

This is precisely why I find it helpful to blame Lindros for all Flyers' problems, and all my problems.

[Bertmega]

@Podein25

Lindros? I hear you on that. Just today I blamed him for slipping on the ice on my way to work. That mother f'er I was thinking. Always trying to jam me up on a Friday.

[aziz]

Again, you can "blame" Bryz for Zajac holding the Boy Scout Jamboree in his crease if you'd lke.

You can "blame" Bryz for Fedotenko standing in his crease to try to prevent Zajac from standing there because the D covers things about as well as a napkin on an elephant.

there are two different things here, though. yeah, those situations were not of bryzgalov's creation, and so he shouldn't be blamed for them. similarly tough to get mad at the goalie when someone scores on a breakaway; too many bad things have to have happened first for much angst to be appropriate against him. still, if the goalie happens to be particularly terrible on breakaways, at some point -even though you don't blame him for anything in specific- you start going, "kinda wish we had a goalie who didn't suck on breakaways." right?

there are techniques and philosophies and regimens and forms that are designed specifically to help a goalie when a bad thing happens in front of him. guy left alone in front of the crease with time, there are things to be done to maximize the goalie's potential for stopping him, even though you couldn't "blame him" for allowing a goal in that situation. goalie lost his stick and the puck deflects off his own guy back towards the net, there are things to be done to maximize the goalie's chances. even though a goal against wouldn't be his fault.

that's how you measure goalies at the NHL level. that's how you measure goalies above bantam level, really. stopping the unscreened, undeflected, straight-on shot from more than 45 feet away is easy. the test is how the goalie deals with the less than ideal, how he copes with the broken play and the missed coverage.

you know, this, of course. i don't mean to go all lecturer on an obvious thing. it's just that with bryzgalov's sloppy stance and remarkably poor mobility, he is at unusually low odds in situations where we can't blame him. a more disciplined stance gets his pads to the ice faster and flatter and maybe that deflection off rusty doesn't go in. better edge control gets him across the crease with less lurching/lunging and maybe he has a better chance at zajac's jamborie. a goalie where you frequently have to not blame him doesn't get a team far in the NHL.

he looked good last night. not a ton asked of him, only a few situations where i wouldn't have blamed him, but whatever, he did what he needed to. so good on him for that.

[radoran]

there are two different things here, though. yeah, those situations were not of bryzgalov's creation, and so he shouldn't be blamed for them.

Not entirely saying that he shoulders "none" of the blame - just that it wasn't "his fault." There is a big gray area there.

Pretty much saying that if you allow fowards to gain that position (I'm a big John LeClair fan, remember) that a goalie - any goalie - is a crapshoot at that point.

similarly tough to get mad at the goalie when someone scores on a breakaway; too many bad things have to have happened first for much angst to be appropriate against him. still, if the goalie happens to be particularly terrible on breakaways, at some point -even though you don't blame him for anything in specific- you start going, "kinda wish we had a goalie who didn't suck on breakaways." right?

Of course. And, I'll note that Bryzgalov did deny Kovalchuk on the actual breakaway before the defense handed him a "do over." (I thought the penalty was nonsense and would have thought the same if it was Giroux on Brodeur).

you know, this, of course. i don't mean to go all lecturer on an obvious thing. it's just that with bryzgalov's sloppy stance and remarkably poor mobility, he is at unusually low odds in situations where we can't blame him. a more disciplined stance gets his pads to the ice faster and flatter and maybe that deflection off rusty doesn't go in. better edge control gets him across the crease with less lurching/lunging and maybe he has a better chance at zajac's jamborie. a goalie where you frequently have to not blame him doesn't get a team far in the NHL.

he looked good last night. not a ton asked of him, only a few situations where i wouldn't have blamed him, but whatever, he did what he needed to. so good on him for that.

Well, I would say denying Nash and Gaborik standing alone on the 5-on-3 were pretty large stops. I might even go so far to say that he earned his paycheck as the "most important part of the PK" last night.

As usual, I'm not saying that Bryzgalov is the Second Coming of Roy, Tretiak or Parent. I'm obviously all for his buyout and expect it.

I'm saying that the team has bigger problems than the goaltending. I'm saying that Bryzgalov has looked much better positionally and reactionally this year than last - and I spend a no small amount of time keeping an eye on that crease with the puck in the defensive zone.

The Rangers game was the first step in a long journey.

[aziz]

I'm saying that the team has bigger problems than the goaltending.

right, i agree, and especially because the problem of goaltending can't really be changed for at least 44 more games. we're beating a fatally wounded horse. it does boggle the mind, though, at the shortcomings in his game. i don't understand how someone who skates as poorly as him got where he is. i think that advises his entire game, his lateral movement, his lumbering ad hoc stance, how deep in the net he stays...it all comes back to a basic inability to get around efficiently. yet somehow he made it to the NHL, making a ton of cash. skating is supposed to be skill #1 for a goalie to succeed. i don't get it.

[radoran]

right, i agree, and especially because the problem of goaltending can't really be changed for at least 44 more games. we're beating a fatally wounded horse. it does boggle the mind, though, at the shortcomings in his game. i don't understand how someone who skates as poorly as him got where he is. i think that advises his entire game, his lateral movement, his lumbering ad hoc stance, how deep in the net he stays...it all comes back to a basic inability to get around efficiently. yet somehow he made it to the NHL, making a ton of cash. skating is supposed to be skill #1 for a goalie to succeed. i don't get it.

I wonder that as well.

But, again, that's not my biggest worry.

My biggest worry is that we're relying on the people who didn't see any of the things that you note - to fix it.

[brelic]

right, i agree, and especially because the problem of goaltending can't really be changed for at least 44 more games. we're beating a fatally wounded horse. it does boggle the mind, though, at the shortcomings in his game. i don't understand how someone who skates as poorly as him got where he is. i think that advises his entire game, his lateral movement, his lumbering ad hoc stance, how deep in the net he stays...it all comes back to a basic inability to get around efficiently. yet somehow he made it to the NHL, making a ton of cash. skating is supposed to be skill #1 for a goalie to succeed. i don't get it.

I think that's being a bit disingenuous. I know we are mostly all on the same page re: Bryz and buying him out because it was a mistake in the first place. But, c'mon. The guy has been a professional goaltender in the most-talented league in the world for a decade, and has done exceptionally well.

[canoli]

that's true Brel - gotta hand it to the guy, he's done something - or enough things right for 10 years to keep getting raises. And now he has the holy grail of NHL contracts. So good on him.

The only thing is one quick flip of the channels and practically any goalie you see will look faster, more focused, more ready. They all get burned by the breakdowns but Bryzgalov - put it this way how many times a game - or say a week (more like a month) how often do you find yourself saying "Holy Crap how did he make that save?"

[brelic]

that's true Brel - gotta hand it to the guy, he's done something - or enough things right for 10 years to keep getting raises. And now he has the holy grail of NHL contracts. So good on him.

The only thing is one quick flip of the channels and practically any goalie you see will look faster, more focused, more ready. They all get burned by the breakdowns but Bryzgalov - put it this way how many times a game - or say a week (more like a month) how often do you find yourself saying "Holy Crap how did he make that save?"

Hey, I totally get what you're saying. I get the same 'feeling' too, but I think it's just that: a 'feeling'. We watch the Flyers a heckuva lot more than other teams (at least I do), which means we scrutinize them more heavily.

The NHL annals of history are littered with one-season wonders or one-trick ponies that were flashes in the pan (Jim Carey, anyone? Steve Penney?). But someone like Bryzgalov who has consistently put up excellent numbers over a decade of NHL hockey is clearly doing something right, regardless of what we armchair GMs might think

There's still something about him that rubs me the wrong way - though it's much much better when he just keeps out of the media and does his job. But at the end of the day, no matter how much we dislike him, or how much our perception of him is negative, he delivered the same stats for the Flyers last year that he has throughout his career. And that makes us delusional for expecting otherwise.

I mean, the dude went 33-16-7 with a 2.48 GAA and .909 save percentage. You can compare him against other goalies all you want. That has absolutely no relevance. You can only compare Bryzgalov to Bryzgalov. And on that front, that's what we paid for, and that's what we got.