Video 2013 Bryzgalov Evaluation Thread (Buyout or no)

[flyercanuck]

@Digityman

Agree. Another average game by a guy who was brought in, and paid to be a gamebreaker. A guy who is yet to "steal" a game for the Flyers. Which is what good goalies do. The term "good" meaning better than what we've got signed forever for too much. Meaning what the old guy at the other end of the ice did for his team last night. When you outshoot a team 9-3 and are down 2-0 and it looks like just another game by your goalie, it's time for Ilya "The Syphon" Bryzgalov to go.

I may go on vacation til next fall just so I don't have to watch anymore.

[flyercanuck]

@Polaris922

Of course you think he's alright. If he played for the Pens I'd think it was great!

[Polaris922]

I'm looking at it as a pure hockey fan and disregarding the uniform. Honestly if you do that Bryz is far from the reason your team is struggling. He hasn't been stellar but he's been solid enough that if anyone in front of him were performing you'd be better than 0-3. He's actually been good... Not great, but good.

[brelic]

Another average game by a guy who was brought in, and paid to be a gamebreaker. A guy who is yet to "steal" a game for the Flyers. Which is what good goalies do. The term "good" meaning better than what we've got signed forever for too much.

Bryzgalov was signed and brought in to be Bryzgalov. He can't be anything other than that. How much he's paid and for how long is irrelevant. Bryzgalov will play like Bryzgalov.

And on that front, he's done just that. His numbers last year (2.48, .909) are actually on par with his career. The GAA is in the range of his best years, and the save % is along the lines of his weaker years (but there were 2 other seasons where he was lower).

That being said, I don't like him personally (as much as it is possible to 'know' a hockey player on your favourite team) and I don't like contract they gave him. I would have no problem with him on a 2-3-4 year deal. Snider and co. did what they thought would fix the problem, and I love that about the Flyers. They don't just sit around dwelling in the basement collecting #1 draft picks. They act now, and they act decisively.

I don't like Bryzgalov, and I don't really want Bryzgalov. But you can't really fault him. He's been pretty much as advertised.

[flyercanuck]

@Polaris922

So you'd be happy starting a game down 2-0 with 3 shots on net? Memory tells me you guys didn't fare so well with that approach last postseason. It's a real moral booster.

[flyercanuck]

@brelic

Last night was typical Bryz. The goals weren't his fault per say. But at one end of the rink you've got grampa Brodeur pumping up his team with great save after great save. Our goalie lets in the 1st shot on net. It may not have been his fault...but good goalies keep their teams in the game. With Bryz it's every deflection, turnover, or bizarre play ends with the puck in our net.

[radoran]

Not glossing at all... it's that his heart should be with his teammates regardless of what management does. Period. THAT is an issue.

Except that there are large numbers of players in that dressing room who agree with Thomas.

The "theory" about where things "should be" is a great one.

Practice rarely follows theory.

[radoran]

@brelic

Last night was typical Bryz. The goals weren't his fault per say. But at one end of the rink you've got grampa Brodeur pumping up his team with great save after great save. Our goalie lets in the 1st shot on net. It may not have been his fault...but good goalies keep their teams in the game. With Bryz it's every deflection, turnover, or bizarre play ends with the puck in our net.

Bryz can't stop a determined 3-on-2 from a mite team.

Unfortunately, the Flyers can't stop a mite team from constanlty being on a 3-on-2 breakout.

Gonna be a long season...

From what I've seen, Bryzgalov has "bailed them out" from a number of ridiculous breakdowns which are reminiscent of the disaster that was last year's Second Round.

Letting Zajac set up camp in your goalie's crease is a mistake. Forcing your goalie to stop Kovalchuk on a penalty shot moments after he stopped Kovalchuk on a breakaway isn't a recipie for success. Chasing the puck around the ice like a pack of dogs looking for a Scooby Snack isn't going to be an effective way to play professional hockey.

The goalie needs to play better, but the goalie could be Henrik Lundqvist and still start off 0-2 when your team plays like the Flyers have.

[flyercanuck]

@radoran

The Flyers, as a team, looked horrible last night. But swap goalies and we win 9-0.

[brelic]

@brelic

Last night was typical Bryz. The goals weren't his fault per say. But at one end of the rink you've got grampa Brodeur pumping up his team with great save after great save. Our goalie lets in the 1st shot on net. It may not have been his fault...but good goalies keep their teams in the game. With Bryz it's every deflection, turnover, or bizarre play ends with the puck in our net.

That grampa is also the best goaltender (some might even say player, period) in the history of the NHL. Granted, he *is* 40 years old... but he's is on his own level.

I get more discouraged when we are (routinely) outplayed by other teams' backup goaltenders.

*sigh*

[DaGreatGazoo]

Not glossing at all... it's that his heart should be with his teammates regardless of what management does. Period. THAT is an issue.

I don't disagree with you..but I'll take a flake that can play, and earned a Cup ring, over a flake that can't play and has won nothing.

And when they sign him, and he flakes out..please feel free to NOT remind me about this post.

[flyercanuck]

@DaGreatGazoo

Hey if they signed Thomas to a one or two year deal and he stinks the joint out, at least the end is near. With Bryz' contract, no human eye can see the light at the end of that tunnel.

But for the love of God, get a goalie and develop him!

[DaGreatGazoo]

Chasing the puck around the ice like a pack of dogs looking for a Scooby Snack isn't going to be an effective way to play professional hockey.

Damn..that is funny stuff right there.

[brelic]

The goalie needs to play better, but the goalie could be Henrik Lundqvist and still start off 0-2 when your team plays like the Flyers have.

You hit the nail on the head. Goaltending matters less than the sum of the parts.

Does anyone honestly believe that Esche is a better goaltender than Bryzgalov?

Under Hitchcock, Esche went 2.20/.907 and 2.04/.915, both career years for him.

Put another way, our goals against over the past few years (which includes Laviolette and Cake Baker Stevens) are the worst since 1993-94.

Our goals against in the 4 years Hitch was here were the best since 1974.

At the end of the day, we went to the Cup Finals under a Laviolette/Stevens coached team (Stevens was fired after 26 games), not under Hitchcock.

I even forget the point I was trying to make... now I'm just depressed!

[brelic]

I don't disagree with you..but I'll take a flake that can play, and earned a Cup ring, over a flake that can't play and has won nothing.

And when they sign him, and he flakes out..please feel free to NOT remind me about this post.

Yeah, but before that Cup, Thomas was just a flake with no ring. Point is, we always chase the coach that won a cup, or the player that won a cup, or the goalie that won a cup, as if that were some sort of magic predictor of future success.

But I do see your point. I just don't even know why Thomas would want to sign here. We're nowhere near a Cup, and if you're coming back after a year off and 36-37 years old, wouldn't you go to a Cup contender?

[radoran]

@radoran

The Flyers, as a team, looked horrible last night. But swap goalies and we win 9-0.

Hyperbole is not your friend.

A different goalie doesn't score goals. The Flyers scored zero.

[Digityman]

Yeah, but before that Cup, Thomas was just a flake with no ring. Point is, we always chase the coach that won a cup, or the player that won a cup, or the goalie that won a cup, as if that were some sort of magic predictor of future success.

But I do see your point. I just don't even know why Thomas would want to sign here. We're nowhere near a Cup, and if you're coming back after a year off and 36-37 years old, wouldn't you go to a Cup contender?

In the end the discussion isn't really about getting Thomas or not. It's about whether Bryz is the right goalie for the next 7 years. Thomas' name has been just thrown out as an example of a band-aid until Flyers' brass figure out how to draft/develop a goalie or trade for a young prospect.

This team is extremely young and *if* allowed to grow together should be contending for a cup within the next few years with a couple tweaks.

[brelic]

In the end the discussion isn't really about getting Thomas or not. It's about whether Bryz is the right goalie for the next 7 years. Thomas' name has been just thrown out as an example of a band-aid until Flyers' brass figure out how to draft/develop a goalie or trade for a young prospect.

This team is extremely young and *if* allowed to grow together should be contending for a cup within the next few years with a couple tweaks.

The right answer, IMO, is that *no* goalie is the right goalie for the next 7 years. It's too long. I've argued this point ad nauseum, so I won't bring it back.

Is Bryz the right goalie for the next 2 seasons? Sure. Barring any better options (of which we have none), he is the best bet for the next few seasons.

[canoli]

Hyperbole is not your friend.

A different goalie doesn't score goals. The Flyers scored zero.

well you know....maybe they don't "score zero" facing Bryzgalov. That's the point.

I can't blame the guy for not stopping Kovy 1-on-1 - maybe the best 1-on-1 shooter in the NHL (as evidenced by his SO stats). And I can't fault him for goals scored 5 on 3 or even 5 on 4. But maybe if he makes those first couple stops the Flyers don't take those penalties. Maybe - I admit it's a "maybe" - maybe there aren't quite so many egregious defensive breakdowns.

Everybody agrees when your goalie makes big stops the skaters play better. They just do. They get confidence, they work harder, smarter - it all comes together that much better.

I realize I'm talking "intangibles" here a little so it's hard to quantify and say exactly how better goaltending affects a team - but JEEZ - 3 goals on 5 shots? What was it the night before? about the same? the first couple shots and we're down 2-0. Maybe it's unfair to fault the goalie when your skaters are obviously having trouble with their assignments...but still... your goaltender has to find a way to stop the puck. Especially the first few shots of the game.

[radoran]

Agreed goalies change affect teams. And teams likewise affect goalies.

"5 goals on 3 shots" is nice shorthand, but it obscures if not ignores the fact that Zajac was able to hold a drum circle in front of Bryzgalov with no one doing anything about it and that the second goal was a botched pass off Fedotenko - who at least was trying to keep people out of the crease if the defense wasn't going to.

Does Lundqvist stop either of those two shots even half the time?

Then the third, as you note, is Kovalchuk on a shorthanded breakaway (which Bryz stopped) and then a penalty shot because of the play of the skater.

Bryzgalov could have played better. Should have played better. MUST play better.

But if the team in front of him keeps playing the way they are, it won't matter if they have a literal brick wall in the crease.

[OH1FlyersFan]

A penalty shot? You're going to hold it against him that a penalty shot, by Kovalchuk no less, was scored? On a great backhand shot after some slick moves? Wow... you don't want a good goaltender... you want a miracle goaltender. You want to blame someone try the overrated Timonen who never saw Kovalchuk get behind him then was not up to the task of catching him.

Ha! Why, yes, yes I am. I know a lot of folks have made some really good arguments about why Bryz shouldn't have to stop penalty shots, breakaways, and whatever else is thrown at him, and who have suggested that it's not his fault that there is a breakdown in defense or in this case when another player takes a penalty. I respect those arguments and agree that it's not always his fault.

But when there IS a breakdown on defense or a penalty and it falls to the goalie to act as the last line of defense by making a play, stepping up and stopping the shot -- something that is clearly the goalie's responsibility -- then he needs to make the play and stop the shot. Otherwise, why even put a guy in goal?

If he's not even expected to make the save or its assumed he can't make the save because Kovy or whomever is so awesome, then why even bother. Like I said in a previous post - we're doomed if we ever go to a shootout because that really is just the goalie versus the shooter, one on one. We, I, expect him to make those saves. I expect him to make the save on a penalty shot too. I don't think that's unreasonable or unfair. That's his role, that's his job, on this team - to stop shots when all else fails and everything else has broken down.

I refuse to accept this idea that because Kovy's jukes are awesomely awesome that we should just assume our goalie isn't going to make the save. That's not ok. He needs to make the save. When he doesn't - that's on him.....regardless as to how or why we got there or whose fault it was on defense. Harry Truman said, "the buck stops here." The buck stops with Bryz as the last line of defense. Yes he needs support. Not always going to get it and when he doesn't, it's on him. I only wish it was the PUCK that stopped there.

[radoran]

I would love it if he would step up and make a big stop. But I would argue that he has. For all those convinced the Devils game "would have been 9-0 Flyers" if Bryzgalov had been replaced with a shooter tutor, there are a number of reasons to suspect that without Bryzgalov, it could have been 9-0 Devils.

The goalie is *not* the biggest problem this team has rightnow. And he's not the reason the Flyers lost the first three games.

We can focus on having Bryzgalov stop world class snipers on penalty shots or we can focus on a team that looks like a bunch of monkeys trying to hump a football, giving up shorthanded breakaways and then committing penalties on them.

BOTH need to play better, but it is the TEAM that needs the most work rightnow, not the goalie behind them.

[OH1FlyersFan]

We can focus on having Bryzgalov stop world class snipers on penalty shots or we can focus on a team that looks like a bunch of monkeys trying to hump a football, giving up shorthanded breakaways and then committing penalties on them.

BOTH need to play better, but it is the TEAM that needs the most work rightnow, not the goalie behind them.

The monkey analogy is the funniest thing I've read all day! Hilarious. Well done.

I don't disagree that this is a team sport. But if there is one aspect of the game that does focus on the individual and expects individual effort, it's goaltending. Bryz needs the support of his team. When he doesn't get it, then he's the responsible party. It's up to him to make that save when the team has abandoned him. And he needs some work right now. Does he need more work than the offense or defense? Interesting question. Probably more than the offense but less than the defense. Is he getting bad breaks that all the work in the world wouldn't fix? Maybe. But he still needs to make those stops. Maybe I'm expecting too much from him.

I don't believe the score would have been 9-0 Flyers, because our offense isn't doing a lot of things it needs to do, including scoring against really good goaltenders. Would they have been able to score, however, if they had been shooting against Bryz in the net as the opposing goaltender? I'd put money on it. We have Lundquist next. Good luck with that. Bryz is going to have to stand on his head....again. Should it have to be that way? No, but it's what we need and expect him to do. Hope he's working on that.

[radoran]

The monkey analogy is the funniest thing I've read all day! Hilarious. Well done.

I don't disagree that this is a team sport. But if there is one aspect of the game that does focus on the individual and expects individual effort, it's goaltending. Bryz needs the support of his team. When he doesn't get it, then he's the responsible party. It's up to him to make that save when the team has abandoned him. And he needs some work right now. Does he need more work than the offense or defense? Interesting question. Probably more than the offense but less than the defense. Is he getting bad breaks that all the work in the world wouldn't fix? Maybe. But he still needs to make those stops. Maybe I'm expecting too much from him.

I don't believe the score would have been 9-0 Flyers, because our offense isn't doing a lot of things it needs to do, including scoring against really good goaltenders. Would they have been able to score, however, if they had been shooting against Bryz in the net as the opposing goaltender? I'd put money on it. We have Lundquist next. Good luck with that. Bryz is going to have to stand on his head....again. Should it have to be that way? No, but it's what we need and expect him to do. Hope he's working on that.

See, while I agree it is what is "needed" I just don't go as far to "expect" it.

I need to see a LOT more from the guys who are going to be here next season. I'm not including Bryz in that scenario.

[OH1FlyersFan]

See, while I agree it is what is "needed" I just don't go as far to "expect" it.

I need to see a LOT more from the guys who are going to be here next season. I'm not including Bryz in that scenario.

Interestingly enough, this was reported earlier today. From the article: "It was recently reported the Philadelphia Flyers were very interested in the 33-year-old goaltender. Maybe they’re trying to find a way to move Ilya Bryzgalov and his big contract? Bryzgalov hasn’t played badly in the Flyers’ current three-game losing streak, but remains a target of fan criticism.

Then again, maybe Gillis wasn’t referring to the aforementioned teams, but another which might be disenchanted early with its goaltending."

http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/49552-New-life-to-Luongo-rumors.html