fanaticV3.0 Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 I saw rumors on Facebook (which came from Twitter) just a few days ago that a deal was virtually done. It had said that games could start as soon as January 19.So I get up this morhing and turn on Good Day Philadelphia (How hot is Kacie McDonnell btw?) and it says the two sides did not even meet yesterday. How the **** does this happen? It's January for Christ's sake, how the **** are you doing anything other than locking yourselves in a room and ordering takeout until the issue is resolved? That's a disgrace that they can't even meet in person. This isn't just a Gary Bettman problem either, so don't bother posting any of that ****, I have no time or interest in it. This is a league-wide communication (and greed) problem. None of them care about anyone but themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerrod Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 you are right......there is no sense arguing with you........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertmega Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 @fanaticV3.0It's nothing but posturing and peacocking from both sides. It's actually sickening that this has been going on for this long. I get that Ferh has the players best interest in mind, and Bettman has the ownership's best interest in mind; however, nobody, not one article show where either side has the fans best interest in mind.I look at it this way: The NHL is a corporation and the fans are the shareholders. With that in mind have you ever witnessed a corporation flat out say f you to their share holders? In essence that is what the NHL is doing. Maybe the KHL has it right, a free market system without representation. They don't like you or need you, well there is the door. I know that is the environment that I work in. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 @fanaticV3.0It's nothing but posturing and peacocking from both sides. It's actually sickening that this has been going on for this long. I get that Ferh has the players best interest in mind, and Bettman has the ownership's best interest in mind; however, nobody, not one article show where either side has the fans best interest in mind.I look at it this way: The NHL is a corporation and the fans are the shareholders. With that in mind have you ever witnessed a corporation flat out say f you to their share holders? In essence that is what the NHL is doing. Check my sig link below...The NHL is a corporation, the fans are NOT shareholders. They are consumers. YES, the NHL "needs" them to survive, but they have NO actual impact on how the "businessmen" choose to interact with their "employees" anymore than people who ate Twinkies had any impact on the "businessmen" who sank Hostess and the "employees" who wouldn't give them more money to keep sinking the company.If you tried to sell Ed Snider that the "fans" were his "shareholders" I think that the "actual" investors who have their money in Comcast's $101B market cap might have an issue with you.The KHL has a hard salary cap system in place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 @radoranI am not going to get into an argument of semantics with you Rad. The NHL is not publicly traded therefore has no share holders, I get that. However, the fans ensure there is a game; just as shareholders ensure the financing of a corporation. Without us, there little game is nothing more than just that.If there is no NHL, I promise you Comcast would still be a Large Cap Corp. That is really not a good example on your end.So let me ask you this, as a fan are you upset?I am going to go out on a limb here, but by chance are you a lawyer?Bert - I completely agree that there is "no game without the fans". That said, I am not surprised that there is no consideration for "the fans" among the billionaires and millionaires. The fans came back after 94-95. The fans came back after 04-05 (and got them to the $3.3B in revenue they decided they had to quarrel over some more). And, I wager, the fans will come back in 2013.Do you expect the Big Market hockey teams to see any significant drop in fan interest at games? 'cause I don't. Is it a problem in Phoenix? Long Island? Dallas? Columbus? Anaheim? Sure. But it was a problem there BEFORE the lockout. That problem mattered enough to the teams to shut down for half a season and risk the fragile fanbases in many markets - i.e. not much.Again, your favorite sports team doesn't give a rat's posterior about you. True, if sad, story. Unless tens of thousands of fans start acting the same way, the Leagues - be it hockey, football, basketball or baseball - really don't care. And IMO "the fans" simply don't act that way.Comcast OWNS the Flyers - which is the point of the example. Lock, stock and barrel. There is no "semantics" here - their shareholders OWN the Flyers. The corporation and the team are run with an eye towards making sure that the ACTUAL shareholders are well represented financially. The fans who do not own Comcast stock are NOT shareholders. The STH payments or individual game tickets entitle fans to watch THAT GAME (or games) and no more. And the NHL takes that money, says "thank you very much" and lets you know when you can give them more money. That's the relationship. Period.Do I think that Comcast - and the NHL - is potentially myopic in overlooking the impact that these continued labor travails are having on developing fanbases in new markets and expanding them in existing markets? Yes. Do I think that Comcast - and the NHL (NHLPA) - cares? No.Why? Because - as you point out - Comcast will still be a Large Cap Company regardless of what happens with the Flyers.I expect the NHL revenue to drop significantly, and then resume the inexorable march upwards. I'll wager that Comcast and the NHL expect the same thing.Why do you think they should take "the fans" more seriously, when "the fans" themselves do not?If you can't tell that "as a fan" I'm upset, you're not reading me.I am not a lawyer and I don't play one on teevee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canoli Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 yep - it's just the way the business works. Of course they don't care about the fans in the sense that they want their input in how they operate. They realize without the fans there's no business but they also know - as you pointed out - the fans will come back once the lockout is over.A few canceled STH or a couple weeks of slightly-less-full arenas (in the ones that normally sell-out) won't impact their bottom line very much. Obviously the lock-out has cost them the revenue of all the missed games but they've saved tremendously on player salaries. I don't know whether it's a net gain or loss - but if it's a loss apparently it's not big enough to impact their decisions - else there never would have been a lock-out in the first place.Hopefully this thing is almost over and we get a 48-game season starting on the 19th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 @canoli I go back and forth. Currently, I'm quite skeptical about starting the season. I don't think Bettmans ego can handle the slap in the face that dircertication will bring (looks like they will go through with this). It will create a new round of "us vs them" thinking, that is counter productive to getting a deal done. True pros not motiaved by ego would be able to overcome this, but not Gary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertmega Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 @radoranI deleted the original post as it was out of emotion. I take it you can still see it? I agree the fans will be back to a degree. How many casual fans are already gone? I guess it doesn't matter though. Here is a good example of your point: I was at the gym today. While on the treadmill ESPN showed highlights from the WJC. The man next to me, wearing a FLYERS shirt (no kidding) asked how the Flyers were doing this year. I looked him and laughed a little thinking he was being funny. He then said, I guess you're not much of a sports fan, almost implying that I do not watch the game. I asked him if he knew that the Flyers have not played a game since May of 2012.....he looked puzzled. This gym is smack dead in Philadelphia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hf101 Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 I guess it doesn't matter though. Here is a good example of your point: I was at the gym today. While on the treadmill ESPN showed highlights from the WJC. The man next to me, wearing a FLYERS shirt (no kidding) asked how the Flyers were doing this year. I looked him and laughed a little thinking he was being funny. He then said, I guess you're not much of a sports fan, almost implying that I do not watch the game. I asked him if he knew that the Flyers have not played a game since May of 2012.....he looked puzzled. This gym is smack dead in Philadelphia.lol, priceless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 @radoranI deleted the original post as it was out of emotion. I take it you can still see it?I agree the fans will be back to a degree. How many casual fans are already gone?I guess it doesn't matter though. Here is a good example of your point: I was at the gym today. While on the treadmill ESPN showed highlights from the WJC. The man next to me, wearing a FLYERS shirt (no kidding) asked how the Flyers were doing this year. I looked him and laughed a little thinking he was being funny. He then said, I guess you're not much of a sports fan, almost implying that I do not watch the game. I asked him if he knew that the Flyers have not played a game since May of 2012.....he looked puzzled. This gym is smack dead in Philadelphia.Hey, no offense and none really offered. Peace.I've seen over a dozen people in Philly wearing last year's Winter Classic hats with the Flyers logo. All of them since the latest "hopeful" changes. Half of them - no lie - African Americans. I had noticed a lack of Flyers logos prior to that.My Twitter profile pic is in a Flyers cap and there are many instances on FB of me in Flyers garb. My Kitchen is orange, white and black - with the Flyers' retired numbers painted on the wall. I actually see the world through orange and black RayBans when I need sunglasses.I haven't worn the cap from my Twitterpic since the lockout started. I wear the glasses but, I mean, who wouldn't?Of my friends, the ones who are not avid hockey fans have stopped even asking me about the lockout. "If something changes, I'll tell you" I say.I allowed myself to be hopeful about the latest developments. Then the League kicked me in the mouth again.Yes, I'm pissed as a fan. Yes, I'm upset that there's no hockey. Yes, I will watch games again. But, I will NOT give any money to this league for YEARS.At the earliest.I understand your anger. I understand lashing out at other posters. I understand.And I really hate them - the NHL, the owners, the NHLPA - for it.But I love hockey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 @radoran Well said sir. I can't help but watch. Living near Toronto, I stopped going when it became cheaper to take a week long vacation in some latin American country than to take my family to an NHL game that included one team (Leafs) that weren't worth five bucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerrod Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 @radoranWell said sir. I can't help but watch. Living near Toronto, I stopped going when it became cheaper to take a week long vacation in some latin American country than to take my family to an NHL game that included one team (Leafs) that weren't worth five bucks.Perfect!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 Yes, I'm pissed as a fan. Yes, I'm upset that there's no hockey. Yes, I will watch games again. But, I will NOT give any money to this league for YEARS.But by watching the games, you are giving them money (just not in a direct sense). I am of the same disposition as you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanaticV3.0 Posted January 14, 2013 Author Share Posted January 14, 2013 you are right......there is no sense arguing with you........Bettman sucks, but that's all you've got. That idiot running the players union ****ed up baseball too. There are a lot more factors than your dislike of Bettman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanaticV3.0 Posted January 14, 2013 Author Share Posted January 14, 2013 @fanaticV3.0It's nothing but posturing and peacocking from both sides. It's actually sickening that this has been going on for this long. I get that Ferh has the players best interest in mind, and Bettman has the ownership's best interest in mind; however, nobody, not one article show where either side has the fans best interest in mind.I look at it this way: The NHL is a corporation and the fans are the shareholders. With that in mind have you ever witnessed a corporation flat out say f you to their share holders? In essence that is what the NHL is doing. Maybe the KHL has it right, a free market system without representation. They don't like you or need you, well there is the door. I know that is the environment that I work in.I agree it was totally sickening. It's a GAME, shut the **** up and play. Or don't, I don't care anymore. If I get to watch and get some enjoyment out of it, great. If I don't, oh well. I'll go watch a movie.How is the KHL set up? I don't know anything about it other than that's pretty much the next best choice for hockey players in this world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertmega Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 @fanaticV3.0The KHL has a union, but as far as I understand, nothing is guaranteed If you can't play or not living up to your contract, then they'll cut you with no $$. I think it is much like the NFL structure.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanaticV3.0 Posted January 14, 2013 Author Share Posted January 14, 2013 @fanaticV3.0The KHL has a union, but as far as I understand, nothing is guaranteed If you can't play or not living up to your contract, then they'll cut you with no $$. I think it is much like the NFL structure..Oh, I am a fan of that. If there's one thing I like about the NFL, it's the way they structure their contracts. I think all leagues should follow this model. Teams should have a right to get rid of a player if they don't want them. If you aren't playing up to your contract or are simply making so much it hurts the team, they should have the right to give you you're walking papers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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