YOU F*CKING SUCK, BRYZ!

[JackStraw]

Does it matter to me if he's no good in the carny game they run to award an extra point and giant stuffed bear during the regular season if he puts up 1.95/.926 in the playoffs? No.

Wadeaminute... are you saying they get the extra point and the giant stuffed bear for winning the shootout? Now I'm much more pissed off than I was before.

[DaGreatGazoo]

THAT'S THE PROBLEM!!! Bryz doesn't want a stuffed bear! He wants a stuffed tiger!! DOH DOH DOH DOH!!! :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink:

[926]

IAll we can really do is wait to see if Bryz gets it together. This team "should" make the playoffs. That's where I'll "judge" Bryz this season.

Wait - frustrated? Get it together? I thought he was. Bryz is in the Briere/Timmo tier for me, vets who have game who got paid and gotta play up but not carry the entire load...Didn't Briere register similar frustration in the early going, too?

[brelic]

@ brelic, re:

Thanks for the laugh - and reminding me how seemingly talented / promising goalies can flame out pretty hard...Remember when the Flyers ran into a wall of Lalime in '02?? Ugh.

"In the playoffs, the Sens faced off with the Philadelphia Flyers and were heavy underdogs, however, Lalime was unbeatable, as he allowed only two goals as Ottawa defeated the Flyers in five games. His GAA for the series was 0.40, and he had a .985 save percentage."

http://en.m.wikipedi.../Patrick_Lalime

Yeah, the sick thing is that Cechmanek had a 1.85 GAA and .936 in that playoff round and we lost.

The following season, he played 58 games, and posted a 1.83, .925. Sick numbers.

[mojo1917]

@926

with regard to briere he had some injury problems during his first years here too, but then he brought it in the playoffs and people gave the little guy some slack. because he's a ******* stone cold killer when it matters.

[radoran]

@926

with regard to briere he had some injury problems during his first years here too, but then he brought it in the playoffs and people gave the little guy some slack. because he's a ******* stone cold killer when it matters.

And we'll see if Bryz has that in him. I'm not taking his experience on a 7/8 seed going up against the tops in the Western Conference for the Coyotes as the be all and end all of his playoff experience. If he shuts down teams in the playoffs - and the Flyers manage to score more than twice in a five game series - I like the chances.

@926

The main issue is consistency - and an ancillary issue is play at home. He needs to post a string of 1.95/.926 games at home - and the team needs to play better at home in front of him - to quiet the detractors.

But, honestly, yeah - I'm frustrated with how his play has been in the first half of this season. I hope it will improve and I expect it to.

There is not a person on this board, I'll wager, who is sticking it to Bryz now, that won't be happily celebrating a Cup, if it happens.

[aziz]

@radoran

But, honestly, yeah - I'm frustrated with how his play has been in the first half of this season. I hope it will improve and I expect it to.

well....

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/players/2594/gamelog;_ylt=AiTXg1D3On.B8LidTDq_QhdivLYF?year=2010

very similar to this year. only real difference is his 4-5 game big slump came in late december last season, mid october this season. we'll see, but, imo wysiwyg. overall, he hasn't played all that poorly this season, but i woudn't hold my breath for a huge shift from what we've seen for the last month. for good or ill.

There is not a person on this board, I'll wager, who is sticking it to Bryz now, that won't be happily celebrating a Cup, if it happens.

well, of course...though i'd think that would be true regardless of, well, anything else. we could have a roster made up of 20 clones created from the combined DNA of billy tibbets, ulf samuelsson, boris badenov and jar jar binks and i'm pretty sure we'd still all do our best to make it to the parade should our serpentor army win the cup.

[radoran]

@radoran

very similar to this year. only real difference is his 4-5 game big slump came in late december last season, mid october this season. we'll see, but, imo wysiwyg. overall, he hasn't played all that poorly this season, but i woudn't hold my breath for a huge shift from what we've seen for the last month. for good or ill.

I've been following Bryz on an FHL angle for a while so I'm familiar with his play and career.

However, I count 13 4+ goal games in 67 starts last season. He has 8 in 23 starts this season. I see obvious room for improvement. He's "on pace" for nearly double the number of 4+ goal games he had last year.

I'll also say that if the Flyers wind up giving up 35 shots a game in the postseason (as Phoenix did last year - 36-31-34-39) then it won't really matter...

I would never cheer for Jar Jar Binks.

[idahophilly]

@ radoran - 2 GA on the road is certainly respectable, & it will be tough foe any team to win when scoring only 2....but, I have to ask - respectfully - did you walk away satisfied with how Bryz showed in the SO last night?

I think what I'm getting at is, ok, steady for 3 periods / OT, then what the hell happened?? It was almost like he had meltdown out there, which freaks me the F out considering we're stuck w/ him for the better part of the next decade...

We are not stuck with him for a decade, regardless what his contract is...

[aziz]

@radoran

However, I count 13 4+ goal games in 67 starts last season. He has 8 in 23 starts this season. I see obvious room for improvement. He's "on pace" for nearly double the number of 4+ goal games he had last year.

and you're right. imo, though, that is looking at the statistics in a vacume. from what i've seen of him over the years, bryzgalov has two main weaknesses. 1. he likes to punt rebounds back into the slot, and 2. he has a tough time adjusting to skaters trailing the play. a team that makes a point of clearing his rebounds and designs their defense to specifically cover trailers (sometimes at the risk of softer coverage deep, as bryzgalov is actually pretty good in goalmouth situations) drastically increase bryzgalov's chances of putting up good numbers. to me, these were things pheonix did well, while philly really doesn't. i see the same goalie facing more of the plays he has trouble handling. i don't expect his part in that to change, he isn't suddenly going to become fleet of foot or a genius with rebound control. if there is going to be an improvement, it is going to have to come from laviolette adjusting defensive coverage to compliment the guy in goal.

js giguerre was the same way in anaheim. he had things he was good at, and things he wasn't. when they won their cup, the ducks' D played the game specifically to his strengths, and basically erased his weaknesses. watching pronger/niedermayer/beauchemin/o'donnel just completely lockdown cross ice plays (that JSG couldn't even pretend to keep up with) was impressive, and was, imo, key to their cup. that d corps was dismantled over the next few years, and JSG was exposed as the overpaid michelin man he was/is.

i dunno. i don't mean to get down on bryzgalov too much, but he is what he is. i think flyers fans have come to assume that the inconsistent goaltending we have had forever is because we didn't have a "real" goalie...but the fact is, it is the nature of the position. the kind of inhumanly consistent play out of thomas for the last seaon and a half has been bizarre to a historic degree. what we're seeing out of bryzgalov is what most teams see out their goalies over the course of a season: ups, downs, soft goals, big saves. by year's end, assuming no more 5 game meltdowns, bryzgalov will be right there in the top 15 goalies in the league, statistically speaking. that doesn't excuse his top 3 goalie salary, but that's an entirely different thing.

[radoran]

@radoran

and you're right. imo, though, that is looking at the statistics in a vacume. from what i've seen of him over the years, bryzgalov has two main weaknesses. 1. he likes to punt rebounds back into the slot, and 2. he has a tough time adjusting to skaters trailing the play. a team that makes a point of clearing his rebounds and designs their defense to specifically cover trailers (sometimes at the risk of softer coverage deep, as bryzgalov is actually pretty good in goalmouth situations) drastically increase bryzgalov's chances of putting up good numbers. to me, these were things pheonix did well, while philly really doesn't. i see the same goalie facing more of the plays he has trouble handling. i don't expect his part in that to change, he isn't suddenly going to become fleet of foot or a genius with rebound control. if there is going to be an improvement, it is going to have to come from laviolette adjusting defensive coverage to compliment the guy in goal.

js giguerre was the same way in anaheim. he had things he was good at, and things he wasn't. when they won their cup, the ducks' D played the game specifically to his strengths, and basically erased his weaknesses. watching pronger/niedermayer/beauchemin/o'donnel just completely lockdown cross ice plays (that JSG couldn't even pretend to keep up with) was impressive, and was, imo, key to their cup. that d corps was dismantled over the next few years, and JSG was exposed as the overpaid michelin man he was/is.

i dunno. i don't mean to get down on bryzgalov too much, but he is what he is. i think flyers fans have come to assume that the inconsistent goaltending we have had forever is because we didn't have a "real" goalie...but the fact is, it is the nature of the position. the kind of inhumanly consistent play out of thomas for the last seaon and a half has been bizarre to a historic degree. what we're seeing out of bryzgalov is what most teams see out their goalies over the course of a season: ups, downs, soft goals, big saves. by year's end, assuming no more 5 game meltdowns, bryzgalov will be right there in the top 15 goalies in the league, statistically speaking. that doesn't excuse his top 3 goalie salary, but that's an entirely different thing.

It seems you & I are on the same page with Bryz.

I'm from the camp that if you want to be upset with Bryz for his play because of what you were told when he was signed, I suggest you first talk with the person who told you all that stuff.

Any goalie is generally made better or worse by the defense in front of him. This isn't an excuse. It's a solid fact.

[aziz]

yup. and some goalies do better behind a particular kind of defense. it'll be interesting to see if laviolette's usual the-defense-will-take-care-of-itself approach will change as the season goes on. the flyers will get a far better return on thier goaltending investment if some customization of coverage were to take place.

[Vincent05]

@aziz

Since you brought up coverage, if your best offensive player and even Jagr backchecks with the rest of the team. Why can't Briere do it? I know he's never before but so was Jagr until this season, it would take 5 guys not 4 or 4 1/2 when he's out there. Dude has a A and most people want to nominate him the next C, he better start leading and play some real d not half ass it.

Edited December 21, 2011 by Vincent05

[aziz]

@Vincent05

agreed. i'm not going to crucify him (or even jagr) for not being complete two-way players, but i'm with you, he should be a part of the team's defensive coverage.

[Spinorama]

@aziz

Since you brought up coverage, if your best offensive player and even Jagr backchecks with the rest of the team. Why can't Briere do it? I know he's never before but so was Jagr until this season, it would take 5 guys not 4 or 4 1/2 when he's out there. Dude has a A and most people want to nominate him the next C, he better start leading and play some real d not half ass it.

remember his first season with the Flyers, he had some ungodly minus number? I can't remember if by season's end it actually got back to even or close but I remember it was a very high minus number very early on in the season.

I agree though, I'd like to see him play some better D as well.

As far as the C goes, I'm almost sick of hearing about it. Does it matter? I like a suggestion made by a poster here whom I can't remember at the moment about doing away with the C for the Flyers and just rolling 3 As

[doom88]

That was me.

[TedZep]

He's stealing the money Snider and Comcast are paying him right now.

Stealing money, not games, that is the point. _Sigh

[flyercanuck]

i am still having a tough time processing that holmgren and snider pretty much took the flyers goaltending situation out behind the garage and shot it in the face 51 million times. .

That might be your greatest moment on either board aziz. And I mean that in the best way possible. That's pure gold!

[canoli]

@aziz

Interesting read re: coverage and Bryz's weaknesses. But shouldn't the Flyers be as good as it gets on high-zone coverage and picking up a trailer? Take a look at their PK and how well it works. With the exception of Jagr and Briere all their forwards are fast and pretty good with their sticks on D. I understand having 2 wingers who are particularly soft on D doesn't help matters, and they play on different lines. But it's not asking much of either of them to stay with the late guy and to pressure the point. There will be breakdowns but nobody should be getting clear looks from the point or the top of the circles.

Does it really require Lavy addressing it? It's basic defensive zone coverage isn't it?

[aziz]

@canoli

well, look at the goal against bob tonight. 3 on 3 coming back, hartnell collapsed to the front of the net to pick up the guy meszaros already had covered (i think it was meszaros, too tired to go find a clip). kudos to hartnell for wanting to get back asap, but he left a guy in the high slot all alone. rather than it be the change of angles that bryzgalov has trouble with, ryder fired through the visually impenetrable wall of hartnell and meszaros standing shoulder to shoulder and bob didn't see the puck until it was by his ear. shift ryder to the weak side 30 feet and that's the classic late guy from a new angle that bryzgalov can't seem to pick up.

being on your horse defensively isn't the same as being smart defensively. whether laviolette needs to address it, well, let's watch for it over the next few games and see if it is a thing that happens as much as i think.

[flyercanuck]

@aziz

I don't blame Bob for that goal and I wouldn't blame Bryz, a nice shot that he couldn't see, But somehow I think Bryz would have found a way to get at least one or two more past him. It's sad, but right now Bob already is a better goalie IMO, and has plenty of room for development. Bryz has plenty of room to improve, and he damn well better or he's going to hate earning every penny of that money cause his life will become unbearable.

[canoli]

Aziz - I got ya - and that does happen with some frequency with the Flyers (as it does with every team really) - a "good" double-team down low leaves a wide open look up top. I missed the first 2 periods and I didn't look at the goal but your point is well-taken, that hustling on D isn't the same as playing smart D.

Unfortunately - and I think you mentioned something like this in your original post about the D-zone coverage - Lavy isn't exactly known for making mid-season adjustments to the overall game, particularly defensively. He's got his team jumping and they're winning so "the D will take care of itself." That seems to mean "Get Good Goaltending."

He lucked out with Cam Ward and won himself a Cup. I don't really see the same fortune awaiting him in Philly this year or anytime soon if he's depending on Bryzgalov...

[Mad Dog]

@aziz

Interesting read re: coverage and Bryz's weaknesses. But shouldn't the Flyers be as good as it gets on high-zone coverage and picking up a trailer? Take a look at their PK and how well it works. With the exception of Jagr and Briere all their forwards are fast and pretty good with their sticks on D. I understand having 2 wingers who are particularly soft on D doesn't help matters, and they play on different lines. But it's not asking much of either of them to stay with the late guy and to pressure the point. There will be breakdowns but nobody should be getting clear looks from the point or the top of the circles.

Does it really require Lavy addressing it? It's basic defensive zone coverage isn't it?

And I am not sure what puzzles/angers me more: Bryz's sporadic play or the Flyers' defensive struggles. I can't figure out how the group that features Timonen, Coburn, Carle, and Meszaros - with such a great combination of size, speed and strength - cannot be more effective in locking down on the players in their zone. I am puzzled by why this defensive group cannot consistently protect their blue line. Granted, Bryzgalov *must* play better. No two ways about it. But the D is not helping him nearly as much as they should.

[Mad Dog]

@aziz

It's sad, but right now Bob already is a better goalie IMO, and has plenty of room for development. Bryz has plenty of room to improve, and he damn well better or he's going to hate earning every penny of that money cause his life will become unbearable.

Let's put it this way: at the very least, Bob is not playing *worse* than Bryz. And that, right there, is a huge problem. When we had Bob and Boucher competing for the #1 spot, OK..... But we shouldn't even be at the point where Bryz is competing with anybody for the #1 spot on the team. It should be automatic, but it's not because his play has been OK at best. Not horrendous, but OK. But we didn't sign him to give us a fair pefromance. We signed him to give us a performance of an elite goalie.

[canoli]

I don't know MD I think maybe you're too close to the Flyers' game - possibly? I only say that because my impression after reading your post was you think our D is horrendous, struggling big-time and costing us games in the process. Like I said, only my impression, I know you didn't write that. But - you really don't see the Flyers "locking down on the players in their zone" and "consistently protect the blue line?" Honestly I see it all the time; Coby, Carle, Mez - all of them really, including the young guys Gus and MAB - standing guys up pretty often. Take last night's 3rd period; how much better do you think they can be?

We're not giving up open looks from 15' out like we were doing last year. Compared to other teams our Goals For/Goals Against (and Shots For/Shots Against) is one of the best...Maybe I'm in the minority but I'm happy with our defense. If we had more consistent goaltending - and it hasn't been horrible - we'd be one of the best defensive teams out there.

To my eyes the only weak link is Bryzgalov; he's the only one that concerns me, put it that way.