ruxpin Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 Paying the money for the PRODUCT that you are PRODUCING and the concurrent expenses thereof is something different than "employee costs."Well, it's both. But that doesn't change the validity of your points.(on the other hand, if it is solely product, there is something to be said for attempting to control or reduce costs of "supply." Still doesn't change your central point, though) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 "Normal companies" are not legally sanctioned monopolies, which the NHL (along with the NBA, NFL, and MLB) is.That's a fair distinction. It's not like a nurses union in a labor dispute with a hospital or single health system (no matter how large). It's like the nurses union in a labor dispute with the AMA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted November 29, 2012 Author Share Posted November 29, 2012 Well, it's both. But that doesn't change the validity of your points.(on the other hand, if it is solely product, there is something to be said for attempting to control or reduce costs of "supply." Still doesn't change your central point, though)It's like the whole "families have to budget aroudn the kitchen table, why doesn't government?" argument - which neatly avoids the point that your average family at the dinner table doesn't have occupying forces in houses halfway around the world.Or saying "I'd play for free!" - ignoring the idea that you, in fact, have to be able to eat and have shelter, not to mention healthcare. And we haven't even gotten to a family yet.Obviously controlling costs is an important part of a business.Claiming that you are controlling costs to be fiscally responsible AFTER offering the Parise/Suter/Weber deals (as the owners did - and Bryzgalov, etc.) reeks of hypocrisy.Again, there is a reasonable path to a resolution. And its not the path that either "side" is on. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 It's like the whole "families have to budget aroudn the kitchen table, why doesn't government?" argument - which neatly avoids the point that your average family at the dinner table doesn't have occupying forces in houses halfway around the world.Maybe it's because we're the same person, but I've been saying similar. Nice to see someone else say that. The family at the dinner table doesn't print its own money, either. And a host of other aspects that render the comparison a silly exercise.Hypocrisy. Maybe. Well definitely, actually. But it doesn't mean they can't say "we've really allowed this to get out of control and we need to change things.""And its not the path that either "side" is on." Ain't the truth! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted November 29, 2012 Author Share Posted November 29, 2012 Maybe it's because we're the same person, but I've been saying similar. Nice to see someone else say that. The family at the dinner table doesn't print its own money, either. And a host of other aspects that render the comparison a silly exercise.Hypocrisy. Maybe. Well definitely, actually. But it doesn't mean they can't say "we've really allowed this to get out of control and we need to change things.""And its not the path that either "side" is on." Ain't the truth!But "change" seems to mean "the ownerrs are going to keep doing things exactly as they always have and the players need to change everything." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idahophilly Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 The point is not everything is included in the HRR. The 57% is only based on the current definition of HRR and therefore 57% IS NOT a total picture of the money, only the portion that the owners/players defined that they are willing to share. That is the real point.I havn't read through the rest of the posts yet...But I agree Rod. The HRR thing is really screwed up and needs to be definative and understood by all. The current HRR does not seem to indicate the true income. I suspect it is different for each team as to how they account for that and that's a seperate issue all together. The problem is that the 57% also isn't a true labor cost. It's just the player salaries. So if we increase the HRR to cover "more real world income", then each team has the right to factor in ALL salary costs... That WILL change the formula big time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idahophilly Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 But "change" seems to mean "the ownerrs are going to keep doing things exactly as they always have and the players need to change everything."No one said that. You are reading that into things. Why is it such a bad thing to try and let them change things. You know it's a broken model. I do. So let them try. That's like telling the alcoholic "screw you, you are a drunk and you can't change, never will. Here is a fresh bottle and go chug it"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idahophilly Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 Well, it's both. But that doesn't change the validity of your points.(on the other hand, if it is solely product, there is something to be said for attempting to control or reduce costs of "supply." Still doesn't change your central point, though)I work for someone else and run my own business. I worked in big industry before that and goverment before even that. In each and EVERY one of them, you slash expenses where ever you can. If you are not, then you have zero business being in business or being a manager. Pay your valued employees well but keep an eye on that %... You can't pay your valued employees if you drive yourself right out of business (or department or grant, ect...) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted November 29, 2012 Author Share Posted November 29, 2012 No one said that. You are reading that into things. Why is it such a bad thing to try and let them change things. You know it's a broken model. I do. So let them try. That's like telling the alcoholic "screw you, you are a drunk and you can't change, never will. Here is a fresh bottle and go chug it"...Maybe I missed the proposal from the owners which has moved off their original "offer."Do you have a link to the new proposal from the owners which is different from the hard line they took at the outset and frlom what I have seen have stuck to throughout?I would be happy to "Let them try" if there was any indication that any "trying" was actually happening, 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 but God are the fans there ignorant toward the game.And thus the reference to Ohioians being in a time warp 10 years behind the rest of the nation. I don't get what happened. When I was younger, it was kind of refreshing to step into this time warp of simplicity. Yet, at some point you need to move forward. It is interesting that Ohio is always one of the key states to decide the president. That said, I have never seen a game in Carolina (Raleigh), Miami, Tampa, Nashville or Dallas. I would venture a guess that you can readily find a good portion within the audience that do not understand the game. Which is kind of sad. I mean if you go to a game in Detroit, Vancouver, Montreal- every little nuance of the game is ooed and awed upon. It changes the enjoyment level so much when the entire audience is in tune with what is going on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 or "deer hunting" "sheep hunting" or whatever,@Podein25There, I fixed it for you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 That's a fair distinction. It's not like a nurses union in a labor dispute with a hospital or single health system (no matter how large). It's like the nurses union in a labor dispute with the AMA.Interesting and accurate analogy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 But "change" seems to mean "the ownerrs are going to keep doing things exactly as they always have and the players need to change everything."Or, the owners are going to continue having a business model and decision making process that allows mistake, after mistake, after mistake to occur and hold the players accountable for those mistakes instead of changing the way they make decisions and define their business model. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerrod Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 hat said, I have never seen a game in Carolina (Raleigh), Miami, Tampa, Nashville or Dallas. I would venture a guess that you can readily find a good portion within the audience that do not understand the game. Which is kind of sad.Believe it or not, Tampa fans are fairly knowledgeable of the game. I think a large part of that is due to the fact that several are transplants from northern states and have adopted the Lightning as their new team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted December 3, 2012 Author Share Posted December 3, 2012 That said, I have never seen a game in Carolina (Raleigh), Miami, Tampa, Nashville or Dallas. I would venture a guess that you can readily find a good portion within the audience that do not understand the game.People in Dallas have been trained to believe you can change rules if it is convenient...#nogoal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Believe it or not, Tampa fans are fairly knowledgeable of the game. I think a large part of that is due to the fact that several are transplants from northern states and have adopted the Lightning as their new team.Actually, I would believe it. The same as I would believe it in Carolina or Miami (whom actually went to the SCF before either Tampa or Carolina). In fact (and I was going to post this), I can - and have, go to a Flyers game and find a ton of folks that are completely ignorant to the the game. Go to any of the corporate level suites and just sit and listen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 People in Dallas have been trained to believe you can change rules if it is convenient...#nogoalWhere is brett hull when you need him?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted December 3, 2012 Author Share Posted December 3, 2012 Where is brett hull when you need him??He's over there, the guy with the one leg. You just can't see the other one as it's in the crease... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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