Polaris922 Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 (edited) After some debate on Sidney Crosby in the Flyers forum, I decided to look for some journalism regarding his play, allegations of the lottery being fixed, and how some folks from other areas view Crosby. I know he's not perfect, and I've said as much fairly often, but I figured I'd ask the question....As much as I try not to be, when it comes to Crosby, am I a 'homer'?So I'm going to do some reading... And this is the first article I found in google....Now Bleacher Report is sometimes goofy, sometimes not. But I thought it was an interesting Rangers fan's perspective.http://m.bleacherrep...need-to-shut-upAs a hockey fan, I try not to have any bias. I try to look at the game from an objective point of view, criticizing things that need to be criticized and giving credit where credit is due. Unfortunately, doing that is frowned upon by my fellow New York Rangers fans. I am sick and tired of our fan base being represented by immature and jealous fans who have an irrational hatred of a guy they should be looking at with awe. The player I'm speaking of is, of course, Pittsburgh Penguins captain Sidney Crosby. Everywhere I turn, there are chants of "Crosby sucks," signs with "No Diving" and pictures of Crosby wearing womens' underwear. Can these fans get over their jealousy already? I KNOW it's frustrating being a Rangers fan. I KNOW Crosby is over-marketed by the NHL. But can we just take a step back and admire just how great this player is? Barring injury, we are watching a future LEGEND, folks! This is a guy who when all is said and done, will likely be one of the top ten scorers of all time and a first ballot Hall of Famer. Let's take a look at the "reasons" why he is so hated.He plays for a rival team: Perfectly understandable. There's nothing wrong with hating a rival player, but to say he sucks is just idiotic. He is arguably one of the two best players in the league, if not the best. He's a diver: This is just asinine. Did he have a reputation as a diver in his rookie season? Absolutely. Any die hard Pittsburgh Penguins fan will tell you that. Has he fixed said problem now entering his sixth NHL season? Absolutely, and any rational hockey fan would agree on that point. The fans that focus on his diving are just latching onto something from when he was 18 years old, for the sole purpose of trying to belittle his accomplishments. Oh, and might I remind my fellow fans of a player on our beloved team named Sean Avery? Mr. Avery happens to be one of the most notorious divers in the NHL.The lottery was fixed: Many fans believe that Gary Bettman fixed the 2005 draft lottery to ensure that Crosby went to the Penguins, as the team was on the verge of relocation. Really? You don't think that coming out of a lockout, when the league was at it's all time low in popularity, Gary Bettman wouldn't want to place Crosby in the biggest market in the NHL and be selling Sidney Crosby Rangers jerseys?The handshake incident: After the Penguins won the 2009 Stanley Cup, Crosby received tons of criticism from bitter Red Wings fans about not shaking the hand of legendary captain Nicklas Lidstrom. Put yourself in Sidney Crosby's skates. You're 22. You just captained your team to the Stanley Cup in an epic seven game showdown. Don't you want to celebrate a little?He's overhyped: OK, maybe this one is true. The NHL does tend to shove Sid the Kid down our throats, when there are plenty of players who deserve just as much notoriety. But the kicker is when fans go to the side of Alexander Ovechkin because Crosby is overhyped. Really? Ovechkin, the guy who gets JUST AS MUCH publicity as Crosby in the hockey world? Go to any NHL website or get any NHL magazine. It's plastered with pictures of Ovechkin. The argument that he doesn't get as much notoriety as Crosby no longer holds water. These are most of the arguments used by my fellow fans. I'm tired of seeing us made fun of by the NHL world. I'm tired of the bitterness just because the Rangers squandered away their high draft picks. I'm tired of the fan base of an original six team, possibly the most known worldwide, being represented by jealousy and irrationality. I'll be ostracized by the Rangers community for this, but please, just take off your bias blinders and appreciate the greatness that we're witnessing. Edited July 30, 2012 by hf101 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 @Polaris922 Bleacher report has no credibility in my eyes. You or I can write some of that stuff and do a better job. Overall, an ok article, but if you're looking to objectively analyze a topic, bleacher report may not be the way to go...lol. For instance, his only rebuttal to the "fixed lottery" controversy is to counter with "why wouldn't Betteman want to put him in a major market"....really...I mean..*really*???. No mention of the fact Pittsburgh would or could have folded without Crosby...no mention of the behind the closed door drawing. Not saying it was fixed, but this is a pretty lame defense for the topic IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarsippius Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Sweet Jeebus, a Ranger fan defending Crosby.....staying out of it, staying out of it, staying.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 It's all good guys! I don't put much weight in their site but figured since its opinion editorial anyways, why not read a Ranger fan's perspective. I don't know how anyone can counter the lottery crap. How do you prove the appearance is JUST the appearance and not shady work? I'm gonna keep researching the topic just for fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B21 Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 @Polaris922Short answer? No - not being a 'homer' at all though @jammer2 is right. BleacherReport is pretty much the opinion of what I like to call "unlicensed journalists". It is an interesting take from the fan of a rival though likely the minority opinion.You can bank on about a 75/25 spilt here....75% will criticize Crosby no matter what. If that's Crosby and not Giroux making those comments you can bet your last $1 that he would not have been afforded the same benefit of doubt that Giroux was. Such is life on the Flyers side of the forum. The other 25% have a more objective take (@blocker and @ come to mind right of the bat).I didn't follow that thread word for word but you made many good points. I look at it this way...This was the first year Giuroux was "the" guy. If the opponents' strategy was to get the best player off his game, he was going to be the target....this year.I know Crosby has had that "bullseye" on his back since the day he skated onto the ice in his 1st NHL game 7 years ago. For the most part, he shrugs it off and let's his play respond...just ask Darian Hatcher. But he has had a few instances where you could tell his mindset was "F this - I am going to dish out as much as I take" and crossed the line as far as what is acceptable. Keep in mind...a few over a now 7 year career.Not to take away from Giroux's talents but in his first year on that same level, he proved he can be gotten to as well. The Pens didn't but the Devils certainly did. His episode in that series is proof of that. Only his first real time stepping over the "acceptable" line. Maybe it will be the last. Maybe not. Time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 @B21Appreciate your opinion. I think you and I see Crosby in a similar light. I think Bleacher Report is always suspect myself but since it was an opinion column figured how can a guy be off base with his opinion? The article seemed like ge'd put more thought than emotion into it. I'm gonna keep looking around though. I liked his take on the draft lottery, and it has SOME merit, but obviously nobody will ever KNOW except the people who did it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B21 Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 @B21Appreciate your opinion. I think you and I see Crosby in a similar light. I think Bleacher Report is always suspect myself but since it was an opinion column figured how can a guy be off base with his opinion? The article seemed like ge'd put more thought than emotion into it. I'm gonna keep looking around though. I liked his take on the draft lottery, and it has SOME merit, but obviously nobody will ever KNOW except the people who did it.Even the 'fixed' lottery is about 99% BS. Every team had a representative there. An accounting firm had a representative there. And the NHL's top legal dog was in the house. I say 99% because anything is possible but if it were fixed, I'd like to know how that worked. Pittsburgh awarded first pick in 2005 entry draftJuly 22, 2005 0 0 0 TORONTO (Reuters) – The Pittsburgh Penguins were awardedthe first-overall pick in the National Hockey League’s (NHL)2005 entry draft Friday.With the selection, the Penguins will select 17-year-oldCanadian hockey phenomenon Sidney Crosby at the entry draft inOttawa on July 30.All 30 NHL teams had a shot at obtaining the first-overallpick based on a weighted formula. Each team got one ball in thelottery, while clubs that missed the playoffs in recent yearsreceived additional balls.The Penguins had three chances out of 48 for the firstpick.The lottery was held behind closed-doors with NHL chieflegal officer Bill Daly, representatives from an accountingfirm and a representative from each NHL team present.Earlier, the NHL’s board of governors unanimously approveda new labor deal with the players’ union, removing the lastobstacle to a return to the ice after a lockout which wiped outthe 2004-05 season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 (edited) @B21You know what? I was completely unaware that each team had a rep in the room. I know about the others, but you're right, adding 30 men to the room each representing their own team's interests?? Case closed in my eyes... Chalk that one up to conspiracy theory. Thanks for the enlightenment. I have missed that point from day one. Edited July 30, 2012 by Polaris922 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 The Pens didn't but the Devils certainly did. His episode in that series is proof of that. Only his first real time stepping over the "acceptable" line. Maybe it will be the last. Maybe not. Time will tell.The Pens didn't but the Devils certainly did. His episode in that series is proof of that. Only his first real time stepping over the "acceptable" line. Maybe it will be the last. Maybe not. Time will tell.to me that hit on zubris could have been almost anyone on the team, they were so frustrated by then, if it wasn't Giroux it would have been someone else doing something stupid, and credit to zubris for being able to sustain such a violent and unwarranted collision and yet remain in the game. he's a tough guy for sure cause i thought G killed him . as for the draft it was not the brightest thing for the league to do that is for sure. coming off of a lock out and the top rated prospect since lemeiux or lindros is in the draft i think it may have helped to jump start the leagues "come back " to have a draft event and not a bunch of lawyers in a room.not saying it was rigged ... just a misstep by the league in handling a potential pr boon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B21 Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 @mojo1917Couldn't agree more about the draft. Why behind closed doors? Beats me. Just adds fuel to the fire. But rigged? Nah. Pens got lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarsippius Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 The behind closed doors ping pong ball selection was one of the stupidest things Bettman has ever allowed to happen. Fixed? Probably not. But then again I wouldn't be surprised if Mario worked some magic from the grassy knoll either...oh relax it's just a joke....what, you guys think JFK was killed by a lone gunman? Different thread....Giroux shoulda kept his mouth shut, I guess, but taken in the context of the interview, it wasn't the main crux either. And frankly one of the Crosby hacks and Giroux's reaction to it was blatantly obvious when ithappened. The dude busted Giroux's wrist. My opinion of Crosby is purposely omitted here. Yeah **** happens. Yeah I know, Bobbly Clarke yada yada yada, he also retired almost 30 freakin' years ago for crissake. If roles were reversed, Giroux busts Crosby's wrist, no penalty call, I'm guessing Penguinville would feel a bit differently. Just like if Valeri Karmaolv busted Clarkie's ankle in '72 I would have felt differently.Back to the original post and in summary I'd like to say Bleacher Report, Ranger fans and Crosby, the perfect Hat Trick of a*sholery Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Every team had a representative there. An accounting firm had a representative there. And the NHL's top legal dog was in the house.I hate the lottery and think it is a bogus solution to teams tanking. You can defend the lottery pick of Crosby behind closed doors all you want. Yet it is / was the only time since the installation of the lottery that was held behind closed doors? Just ask yourself why that was?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 I hate the lottery and think it is a bogus solution to teams tanking. You can defend the lottery pick of Crosby behind closed doors all you want. Yet it is / was the only time since the installation of the lottery that was held behind closed doors? Just ask yourself why that was??Nobody is trying to defend that it was behind closed doors. We ALL agree that was stupid. But with a rep from each team there in addition to the NHL reps, how could it have been fixed? Seriously Van, if the Flyers organization had a guy in that room when it was fixed do you think it would have been kept quiet?? Or the Capitals? Or anyone else who is a rival or wanted Crosby on their team? I just don't think it's possible. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B21 Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 I hate the lottery and think it is a bogus solution to teams tanking. You can defend the lottery pick of Crosby behind closed doors all you want. Yet it is / was the only time since the installation of the lottery that was held behind closed doors? Just ask yourself why that was??I'm not a huge fan of the lottery either but their really isn't a full proof method to keep teams from "tanking" unless you just make the draft order completely random which would be wrong. As for behind closed doors - looked bad. But every NHL team had a representative there along with some reps from an accounting firm to ensure validity (the NBA does the same thing). I don't care if they held it in a Thai whore house...it would be near impossible to rig that with who was present. At some point people are just going to have to get past it and accept that the Pens simply got lucky. It was also the only time every team had a chance at the #1 pick, too. More than fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Seriously Van, if the Flyers organization had a guy in that room when it was fixed do you think it would have been kept quiet??I heard there was a syringe with water involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerrod Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 I heard there was a syringe with water involved. only on 29 of them....the other 3 were filled with helium.......@Polaris922@B21You 2 guys are Pittsburgh homers every bit as much as the rest of us are Flyers homers. Will your homerism when it comes to Crosby ever outweigh my dislike for him? Not even close. Crosby is universally hated for 2 reasons...1) He is one of the best players to ever play the game and he is not on my team (applies to anyone who is not a Pitt fan).....2) He still dives(although not as much as he used to) and the only guy I ever saw get away with berating a ref like he does was Doughty...Doughty did it once and Crosby is good for it about 80% of every game played..Crosby treats the NHL refs like he owns them and gets away with it...that is something you never see from players on other teams, the getting away with it......... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B21 Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 only on 29 of them....the other 3 were filled with helium.......@Polaris922@B21You 2 guys are Pittsburgh homers every bit as much as the rest of us are Flyers homers. Will your homerism when it comes to Crosby ever outweigh my dislike for him? Not even close. Crosby is universally hated for 2 reasons...1) He is one of the best players to ever play the game and he is not on my team (applies to anyone who is not a Pitt fan).....2) He still dives(although not as much as he used to) and the only guy I ever saw get away with berating a ref like he does was Doughty...Doughty did it once and Crosby is good for it about 80% of every game played..Crosby treats the NHL refs like he owns them and gets away with it...that is something you never see from players on other teams, the getting away with it.........1) Spot on.2) Lots of players dive. Crosby gets noticed more because he is Crosby. In that sense, his 'superstar' status works against him. As for the barking at the refs, I am pretty sure I see more Pens games than you and it's simply not true. 6-7 years ago? Yeah. Now? Not even close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerrod Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 I am pretty sure I see more Pens games than youOf that I have no doubt.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 I heard there was a syringe with water involved. Sounds more like hallucinogens in Philly's water supply to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 only on 29 of them....the other 3 were filled with helium.......@Polaris922@B21You 2 guys are Pittsburgh homers every bit as much as the rest of us are Flyers homers. Will your homerism when it comes to Crosby ever outweigh my dislike for him? Not even close. Crosby is universally hated for 2 reasons...1) He is one of the best players to ever play the game and he is not on my team (applies to anyone who is not a Pitt fan).....2) He still dives(although not as much as he used to) and the only guy I ever saw get away with berating a ref like he does was Doughty...Doughty did it once and Crosby is good for it about 80% of every game played..Crosby treats the NHL refs like he owns them and gets away with it...that is something you never see from players on other teams, the getting away with it.........I like helium... Of course nobody likes playing against him, and the larger the rivalry the worse he'll be hated. He doesn't dive anymore than anyone else, perhaps less in recent years due to all the scrutiny as @B21 said. As for jawing at the refs, I think it's often gamesmanship, like coaches and some other teams captains do. Bylsma says very little to any officials, Crosby makes up for it. Sometimes too much, you're right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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